I'm a driver from the spanish league mentionated in this thread and I can say for sure that 40% is not real data

We're running several divisions every monday where you can find from the most skilled drivers (1st div) where almost 95% of the racers finish the race, to the slowest drivers (lower divisions but still drivers... you know) where there a lot more of accidents and hits between cars since they tend to make mistakes more often

In a lot of real competitions there are many hits between cars (just take a look at the WTCC) and most of them are just scratches, but in lfs half of the hits is the last hit you've made in that race
I mean... you softly hit someone in the rear bump and there's a big chance your car will spin, and if you hit someone (again very softly) in the middle of a curve you're almost done for because your car may fly or almost making a 90º turn and directly going against the nearest wall (just to fly again out of the track :P)


Of course I agree with Becky we need to educate our drivers, that's why we have several divisions and even a "noob" one where the new players can take a first aproach to the competition and learn how to behave in track. Anyways that's not an answer to our problem, the bugs are still there and make the game look very very unrealistic when they happen (more or less often) and we really think that it should be on the top of the bugs to fix list

Quote from Becky Rose :

and if you are seeing airbourne cars frequently during a race then you need to educate or boot your drivers.

We try to make better this game, and we think that some shocks in the game, arent reals, it is simple.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

OK, by the looks of this, we've had the original poster make the post, and in some spanish forum, someone goes "Hey, all us, go to this thread, and post "+1", to make me look like I'm right when I'm not really."

You may try to make him look like a fool but it's not the case, we first had a discussion in our league forum about this matter and instead of flooding the official forums we decided to post one single thread (dexter was just the one who post it) and discuss here what the international crew thinks about it

Anyways and with independence of what may happen in the spanish league what we're discussing here it's the unrealistic collisions in lfs and if it should be at the top of the list

Please let's stay calm and discuss this matter like civilized people without offending anyone

Excuse my english because i´m sure that i will have some mistakes.


I´m not going to vote... because i think that the situation that we were having in LFS-spain last days is casual.

the problem is that last monday, we had a race in Fe Black reverse with the XFR and the UFR, and those cars, are the cars that easiest "overturn" and i think, that this is the reason due to a lot of people couldnt finish the race...

But i´m sure that for example, in the race that we will have next monday mostly people will finish

a greeting

* i think that Overturn is "volcar" in spanish... but i´m not sure

I can wait until I see this bug again. It's been ages since I saw it, but then I rarely drive on public servers.

In a league you shouldn't be seeing it. If you are, then reassess the talent in the league.

Quote from Vykos69 :

Kashopi, simple question: Why are in the german EAS (with about 100) drivers including EPS), always more than 80% of the drivers finishing? And if you read my post right, you should see, that I second the point about that there should be work done on this issue, BUT it is well known, and if you behave as drivers, this wont happen! That's where I refer to mathematics. If 60% of your drivers cant keep the car on the wheels for a race, they should think about some of the basic laws of racing: To finish first, you first have to finish.

I think you can try the same race combination than us, for example, XFR or UFR and Fern Bay... and tell me the % of cars finished. It's not a problem with drivers.....

+1

Quote from SpeedXP :

I think you can try the same race combination than us, for example, XFR or UFR and Fern Bay... and tell me the % of cars finished. It's not a problem with drivers.....

But cars flipping over curbs is not the same bug as when you hit a barrier and fly to Moon.

Quote from Don :

But cars flipping over curbs is not the same bug as when you hit a barrier and fly to Moon.

no, of course, flipping over curbs is not a bug, crash to slightly touch a tyre on a chicane is a bug

i do agree that there is a bug and theres need to fix it, but i do know how to avoid, as long as we have to. i mean how often do you actually touch walls in race? if u hit the wall with like 90kmh in a real car ure basically forced to drop from race, too. and i bet u hit the wall way faster in lfs. ok its looks more like an action movie but still the effect is the same: u cant finish if u do mistakes.
i also had races door to door with people from czech or hungary or äh (misko where're u from again? ) anyway. people i have high ping to. and still we touched each other and didnt fly to mars.

sorry for being bit rude now, but: don't do it the alonso way (i mean t1 in barcelona and t1 in usa; edit: forgot t1 in canada 4 times :P )

+1

Quote from tristancliffe :

I can wait until I see this bug again. It's been ages since I saw it, but then I rarely drive on public servers.

In a league you shouldn't be seeing it. If you are, then reassess the talent in the league.

As someone said before, there are plenty of touring cars competitions where slightly contacts between racers, happens where ever two cars are fighting. I think that you can't said "then reassess the talent in the league" when they are professional and talented drivers. You can't ignore the buggy collision model just arguing "don't scratch your cars".
Last race, there where collisions like this one:
http://jair.lab.fi.uva.es/~dancamp/accidente.zip
which don't have any sense. From a soft lateral contact, one of the cars is shot outwards. Most of this strange behaviors, comes from lateral collisions, and relative high ping magnifys the problem.
There are tricks to avoid this programming, even with lag (many other games do), and I'm sure Scawen knows how to fix it, probably finishing the collision model he started.

Quote from Elgar :

the problem is that last monday, we had a race in Fe Black reverse with the XFR and the UFR, and those cars, are the cars that easiest "overturn" and i think, that this is the reason due to a lot of people couldnt finish the race...

So that pretty much explains the once again misleading statistics. It's normal that other combos are more challenging and you need to be more cautious with the kerbs or walls.

Of course LFS should be made bug free as possible and I'm sure this is somewhere on Scawen's to-do list. But it could take some time to remake whole collision detection which would be immune to lag and such, we'll see.

ps. I wonder how all the leagues who haven't allowed reset for all these years have managed?


edit. Oh crap this moves fast! The Spanish invasion! :S

edit2. Got to take this one.

Quote from SpeedXP :

I think you can try the same race combination than us, for example, XFR or UFR and Fern Bay... and tell me the % of cars finished. It's not a problem with drivers.....

The ongoing OLFSL season had the same combo at 25th of March.

Modest 103 drivers showed up, 30 had DNF which means about 70% finished. Well but what that suppose to say then? I don't know really, people at OLFSL are used that you are not allowed reset and they adjust their driving with it but still can't drive sometimes. I experienced moment of greed in that race myself, was having the perfect performance from back of the grid to second, but pushed too far trying to reach the first runner and flipped only few laps before finish in a place I never though it would be possible. Tough luck.

The Spaniards are right, the "car2airplane" bug is in my opinion one of the greatest bugs in LFS, but when racing you can't notice that very often.
This bug is a real problem only at Autocross Layouts as most of the tracks use solid barriers.

+1

+ 1

+1

Quote from tristancliffe :

I can wait until I see this bug again. It's been ages since I saw it, but then I rarely drive on public servers.

In a league you shouldn't be seeing it. If you are, then reassess the talent in the league.

I invite you to participate in our league, and then, you will be able to value our league talent with your experience.

I totally agree with this, with a such good dynamics this game has I can't understand how this bug has gone so far.

And for those who says it's not about the bug, it's about the drivers, the LFS-Spain league has an amazing quality level of drivers, but if your car oversteers and you SOFTLY touch one of that damn fences the probabilities your car become an F-17 supersonic plane are very high, and that's not how it should work.

Hi!

I'm having a feel of two bands arguing on a thing that everyone of us want to be solved.

I know car2airplane is a well-known bug for everyone of us and we know how to avoid it. Also I know that RTractor has a lack on physics and I know how to avoid it.... not playing that game . Let's be serious and honest. I absolutely support devs in their way of development (I think it's fantastic), but we all are here because LFS give us one thing that NONE of the racing sims offers: Realism and fun.
And all of we are excited about a new and highly expected realism feature as the No-reset option is.

But now you can see that this option has introduced a lack of fun or "raceability" in some combinations such as, previously mentioned, UFR+XFR at FernBay or SO...

Ok... we are able to control ourselves and not take any chicane as if you're challenging for the WR, but we may not doing that if the car behaviour were correct

In an easy way: I think we'll obtain much more fun if in the next update we have a medium improve in the collision system than if we have the brand-new interiors for the GTR's

Dont' actually know how heavy is this problem to fix at programming side, only trying to give Scawen some feedback about our racing experience

Sorry if you feel a bit invaded about spanish crew, but you know we are a big and well-organized community. And, yup... we are racers and not crashers and you are invited to race in our servers if you want to see it by yourselves

+1

+1

I agree whit the post

"Un saludo a la comunidad "

:inq:

Bloody hell, all these Spaniards coming out of the woodwork, it's like the Spanish Armarda all over again (hehehe, lets beat em again fellas)

I can see both sides here. It is an issue and no one seems to be denying that. The point that seems to be being made by a lot of people is that if this problem happens to you then you were crashing out anyway. I think that you do have to hit something pretty hard to end up flying in the air 30 metres. It's rare that a gentle touch causes a flip but this does accasionally happen.

In the first two races of the GFC I can only think of 2 'flying car' instances from two 75 minute races so if people drive sensible this bug doesn't really affect them unless someone else hits them hard.

I would love to see this bug fixed because it does spoil replays and when you demo the game to friends and they see this happening they lose all respect for the game immediately. For that reason and that reason alone I think it is a priority that this is fixed.