We need atleast 2 FWD, 2RWD and 2 Open wheeler rounds to explorer most of the car that LFS has to offer and in order to find the best teams.

For Example
Round 1: XFG/XRG
The xrg is .6 quicker which means everyone will chose xrg and if XFG does not run there will be only 1 FWD round.
We either..
- restrict the XRG
- XFG only
- Or UF1 with (possibly a different track)

What is your opinion on this?
and Should we inforce 1 car type only per round on all 8 rounds?

XRG is maybe .6 faster, but only if you can control it in technical part and can be easily overtaked by XFG there.

It also depends on how hard each car is on its tyres. I've never driven either car but if the quicker one heats the tyres more then it may balance itself over a race distance.

simple, one car

sidi has a good idea, but at the same time if you can't control the XRG's oversteer you'll be quicker in an XFG

Quote from Arrow. :

Should we inforce 1 car type only per round on all 8 rounds?

isnt that contradictory to:

Quote :

...to explorer most of the car that LFS has to offer and in order to find the best teams.

also, if you limit the xrg to equal the xfg (in laptimes), i'm pretty sure everyone will be using xfg as its easier to drive + gives you an advantage over xrg due to its later braking points and slightly higher cornering speeds


so why dont just keep it simple and leave the car classes unchanged and cars unlimited (i suppose you dont wanna start a new discussion about limiting cars everytime before round 3,4,5,6)


btw: why do you think you need a certain amount rounds with fwd/ss/rwd to find the best teams.....this season already offers a huge variety of car classes

I would go with Sidi's Idea and leave it for the teams to come up with thier best drivers for that rounds combo.

So +1 for this

Quote from sidi :

My opinion would be to have the 2 drivers from same team in a dif car.

That's a good idea.

I cant drive RWD cars all that well (translated means i suck even more in RWD than FWD) so i'd rather there was no RWD cars in the series full stop, but IMO if you say the round is XFG/XRG then its the the drivers to make the decision of what to use. I can understand the arguement that it would basically lead to 1 car being used by everyone anyway, but thats how things are really.

I like the idea of 1 driver in one car and one in the other, however that kinda means 45 people are disadvantaged/handycapped which doesnt seem right either.

Personally i think the biggest problem is the fact that little thought is put into the combo, would it not make more sense to pick a decent track where the two cars are competitive together rather than conveniently picking one you want to drive at, im not arsed if you say its not been picked cos you happen to have the HLVC at the track in both cars, but surely there are better tracks where these 2 cars can race and let the driver be the most significant factor rather than the chosen car.
I said it a while back that there didnt seem to be any reasoning for some tracks, and XFG/XRG at Ky2 is a perfect example of a bad partnership.

IMO a track like KY2 (either dir) will always favour the XRG because it has a huge ass straight where the XRG is considerably faster and could easily beat the XFG round there even if they were 0.2sec faster IMO, its just easier to keep a XFG behind you in an XRG if you hold decent lines, and in the event that they do manage a move in a couple of corners time you've got a straight that lasts for about 30 seconds in which to line them up and wait to make the move at the end of the straight, and your back to square 1. How do you do it the other way around?? You cant defend against straight line speed unless the other person is n00b and passes early and you can get into the slipstream and pass them back under braking.

Im not fussed whether things change or stay like this, but i do think there wasnt any real thought into the tracks picked as i said ages ago when everyone was throwing out what they wanted to see. Some of them just feel like they were pulled out of a hat. The dont feel like they were picked intentionally to create some interesting battles between drivers in different cars, its like a track thats popular has been decided and then find a car combo and thats it. Its still going to provide great racing having everyone in the same car, but it effectively means half the car option round arent optional because theres a significantly faster car there and you'd be mad to pick the other/s.

Keep it as it is or change it, the racing will still be good, but there wont be the car battles that the glance at the schedule suggests there could be on the 5 races where there are multiple cars available. If that mix is important then they need to be balanced, if its not then leave it as it is, there was no attempt to balance things last year and it wasnt a concern.

Paul I thought this Championship is to find the best all round team now matter what combo is thrown at us and your only talking about one round from many, the fact you personally do not like rear wheel drive has no bearing on the championship - choose another driver I'm sure there's another driver from your team that loves to drive RW's in fact I would say your probably in a top 5 Team

Did you read past the first line??
I think you'll find that in the very first paragraph while saying that i didnt like the RWD cars and if i had it my way we'd never touch one, i ACTUALLY said that if thats the combo decided then its tough luck and you pick the car you want to pick, like it or lump it.

The same message was put into Paragraphs 5 and 6 (at least once) and i also talk about ALL the rounds too, not just one, because *I* took the time to check what i was commenting on and look at alternative tracks which could have been used just for this round which would certainly allow both cars to be used competitively without one being 0.6sec faster than the other (BL1, FE2 & WE1R were the 3 i was going to suggest but cut it from the post in the end because theres nothing wrong with running this race as it is, but its not an car vs car track, 1 car is forced upon you)

Take the time to read the last paragraph and let it sink in, then comment.

Quote from Arrow. :

For Example
Round 1: XFG/XRG
The xrg is .6 quicker which means everyone will chose xrg and if XFG does not run there will be only 1 FWD round.
We either..
- restrict the XRG
- XFG only
- Or UF1 with (possibly a different track)

What is your opinion on this?
and Should we inforce 1 car type only per round on all 8 rounds?

I think the xfg/xrg is evens as it is. Yeah you can go slightly quicker in the XRG but only if you can drive it well. So as the fwd drive gti is the easyer car to drive but a little slower the team makes there own choice.

Either mixed or just one car to keep it even. I dont think the xrg deserves a weight penalty as it takes more skill to drive it quickly. As 4 the uf1, you have got to be joking?!

Mixed car types would be interesting where possible, however choose wisely & try to even them with weight or power restrictions. maybe xrg/xfg could be one & FZ5/RAC the other. (or a GT car mix) I dont think people would want many mixed car rounds.

I'd still argue that regardless of the time they can do the XRG is still considerably faster in a straight line, and for that reason alone it makes it so simple to overtake the XFG, theres no skill or technique required and its undefendable unless you cheat by weaving round like a loser.

The XFG has to do something in order to get past the XRG, and the passing will only take place in the infield section of this track which assumes that the XFG is able to close the gap the XRG has created by being considerably faster on the boringly long straight, which is 90% of the oval, (it basically misses out 1 corner http://www.mercuryracingteam.c ... p?venue=KY&config=KY1) and the HLVC times for these 2 cars are:
XFG: 56.960
XRG: 54.960
So basically the XRG has about 1.5sec gain (being generous to counter any loss/gain in accelerating and braking between the 2 cars) in a straight line section of the track over the XFG! If you can re-coup that in the rest of the track then as soon as the in-field is finished you've lost them all over again.

An XFG in a field of XRG's stands no chance, you'd be passed by 1 or 2 if they were close enough (ie 1.5sec behind you!!) but you'd never get past them by the end of the infield section, so you couldnt start that lap the same way you did the previous lap, meaning you have no chance of expecting to gain on them in future laps if what they make in the straight is more than you make in the infield.

In comparison to a track like Blackwood where in a race the XRG is still the faster car despite being slower on the hotlap (its gain down the straights and careful defensive driving helps it) you have a scrap between those 2 cars there, your not relying on someone to make a big enough mistake that you can gain a place from them, you want to be racing with them.
Its like holding the race at SO2 (sprint 1) and expecting the XRG's to be able to put up a fight against the XFG's, its an unfair fight and expecting anything different is just stupid. It doesnt make it a wrong decision to have a race there, it just makes it pointless to offer an uncompetitive car, and that was the whole point of this thread.

Personally i'd rather the multiple car rounds were balanced, whether thats done by a form of car balancing with weight & power restrictions or its done by using tracks that allow the cars to race fairly and evenly without arguements over unfair penalties (balancing) being put on a car.
It wouldnt bother me if it stayed as originally planned and everyone ran the XRG, though i'd prefer it XFG only or balanced. But that its being explored as a posibilty to level it out and make it more interesting, more open minded than saying 'take it or leave it' on an issue which doesnt penalise anyone leaving it how it is but actually makes the racing more interesting.

Its easily balanced by restricting air intake by a couple of percent

And I believe any restrictions can be checked by using F12 so we even have scruteneering

i really think we dont need restrictions on any of the cars at the moment, they are pretty balanced. with xfg/xrg the track choice is the real question.

if you really need to do something then i would go with sidis idea too.

As I said to Mr Jones and the Bagbag kid last night:
Why punish a teammate and make them drive the XRG?
Its just mean and spiteful

If you force 50/50 (or 2 of the 3 for the 3-car races like TBO) then sure it means mixed fields, but it means the XFG driver is guaranteed shit results. As much as i'd rather have this as an XFG only round or a more suitable track, I think it should be left as it is, forcing people to drive a crap car is stupid, you might as well do it with all rounds, FOX and UF1, FO8 and LX4.... force half the drivers to drive something they cannot be competitive with for the sake of satisfying the needs of a few people who want to force people into driving a slower car than the other half of the field, we might as well make it 2 class racing, have 1 car running GT1 the other GT2... its stupid.

You have 2 drivers, let them pick what car suits them from the list of allowed cars, why penalise one driver because the track chosen wasnt very clever and is so bias towards one car that 95% of the field is running it.
THAT is the problem, if anything should be looked at its the venue not balancing or forcing people into crap slower cars. You'd have to be one hell of a quick driver to get the XFG into a decent race finishing position (ie top 15) but if they can do that with the XFG then surely they'd kick lumps out of everyone else in XRG, so why cant they be in the XRG and have competitive racing? I thought that was one of the cool things about having 90 drivers racing as equals, penalising half of them so they're effectively half a sec slower per lap isnt what i'd call being an equal to the other half.

of course it can, dont be a numpty
Everyone drives the car they're fastest in, thats the most equal way of doing it if this track is kept.
Forcing teams to put one driver in each car means 45 equals in XRG and 45 equals in XFG, and they'll overlap in somewhere along the way.

Its like having one driver do XRG and the other doing XRG+50kg penalty, your forcing one of the 2 drivers to be slower than they could be, how does that become fair, just because your screwing 44 other teams drivers doesnt make it fair.
Its backwards logic, penalising teams that can (and would) field 2 XRG's to fix the fact that this track is crap for these 2 cars.

The reason why last series multicar combos wasnt a problem was because we already had 2 Fwd, 2Rwd combos no matter what car everyone else chose.

here are some of my suggestions.
- remove XRG from round 1. make it XFG only
- Swap GTRs to Ky national reverse and XFG/XRG to Blackwood
- Or UF1 at any track

Please don't remove XRG .

As for the other two, I have no preference.

I've always had excellent racing at BL1 XFG/XRG
looking at LFSworld these track have very close times between XFG and XRG
- Blackwood Reverse
- Fern Bay Club
- Aston Cadet Reverse
- Aston North
and South City but it only allows 30 cars

Either Blackwood's
However for Rev, you will need strict overtaking rules for the fast entrance into the chicane as two drivers into that tricky braking zone heading for the same apex = disaster

This 2 drivers in 2 different cars is a brilliant idea, it would make things sooo interesting

Cause then there will be diff car classes racing and You dont have to worry about being beaten by some XRG's because You know it's all even
BRILLIANT !

I support the idea. It's very equal and there cant be any nagging about it afterwards

Ok if we have 1 team driver in XFG and 1 in XRG
server 1 could end up with all XRG's and server 2 could be all XFG
that'll work wont it

I think the qualy should be done based on both of the drivers times in that case. Cause yeah, 0.5 is quite a bit and it could be bad if all the XRG's end up in pool1, this 0.5 is a whole different thing within the race, with bad Tyre wear for XRG or smthn GTI's can end up winning even :P