I think thats a stupid idea. I'd hate that, it takes away realism. Jeez, thats what View left/right/rear is for.... its not hard, and you get the option to have it smooth or instant. If you wear headphones instead of speakers, just the sound of the other car tells you 'exactly' where he is in relation to your car. Headphones give you full holophonic sound, something you just can't get with speakers.

Venus

Why would it be so terrible? If you could disable it. You are just not thinking about the whole community. Yes you who have been playing this game for a long time can look around you with no problems but think of the newbies! Wouldn't it be great that there was some ingame warning that would tell them you are beside them? That way they will not ram you in the next corner. Or atleast it's more unlikely. Would that be so bad?

Maybe they should disable all other view modes except the in-car one. I don't believe you can drive a car standing on the roof. Atleast not when its doing 200km/h. What about the digital mirror? Or all the information displays? What about the timing or lap counters? Shouldn't they be on a placard at the pitwall? Should the ability to see player names on top of the cars be removed? The list goes on and on.

The game already has tons of stuff that is not realistic and is arcadish so what harm would this little addition do?

As it could be disabled you wouldn't need to see it.

I've noticed this same trend in many threads. Some people don't want anything added. Be it a mountain track some new driver aid or a new type of racing vehicle always somebody says it not realistic or some sh**. Wake up and smell the roses! This is a game! It's not real! It is never going to be real. So get off your high horse and just for once remember it really is a simulated environment which has many unreal attributes allready.

-1 as it is stupid in TIR.

Maybe a built in pit crew would be an idea, including pit spotter and so-on.

Quote from March Hare :

Why would it be so terrible? If you could disable it. You are just not thinking about the whole community. Yes you who have been playing this game for a long time can look around you with no problems but think of the newbies! Wouldn't it be great that there was some ingame warning that would tell them you are beside them? That way they will not ram you in the next corner. Or atleast it's more unlikely. Would that be so bad?

Maybe they should disable all other view modes except the in-car one. I don't believe you can drive a car standing on the roof. Atleast not when its doing 200km/h. What about the digital mirror? Or all the information displays? What about the timing or lap counters? Shouldn't they be on a placard at the pitwall? Should the ability to see player names on top of the cars be removed? The list goes on and on.

The game already has tons of stuff that is not realistic and is arcadish so what harm would this little addition do?

As it could be disabled you wouldn't need to see it.

I've noticed this same trend in many threads. Some people don't want anything added. Be it a mountain track some new driver aid or a new type of racing vehicle always somebody says it not realistic or some sh**. Wake up and smell the roses! This is a game! It's not real! It is never going to be real. So get off your high horse and just for once remember it really is a simulated environment which has many unreal attributes allready.

Yes i know that, but why make it even MORE unreal than it already is, we all know that this is not reality but we are seeking for the most realistic experience, so why add the unnecessery aids?
You don't have in Flight Simulator arrows on the sky telling you that the airport is on the left, do you?
That's what i am talking about..
And someone mentioned that thing in nKPro where you have to press couple of buttons, while holding gas, to start the engine, unnecesary and a waste of time... i found that to be amazing and utterly immersive..
Just pi**es me off that most people don't think like that, nor the devs themselfes..

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Yes i know that, but why make it even MORE unreal than it already is, we all know that this is not reality but we are seeking for the most realistic experience, so why add the unnecessery aids?

Do you drive with the Shift-F view? If yes then you don't need to worry about the passing aid. If not your gaming is so far beyond unreal that this little device won't make any difference. As for it being unnecessary, it ain't! It would be very usefull for newbies. As is every other aid in this game.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

You don't have in Flight Simulator arrows on the sky telling you that the airport is on the left, do you?

Dunno. Never played that game. But real planes have a compass. And they use GPS and radar. So they pretty much have the arrow.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Just pi**es me off that most people don't think like that, nor the devs themselfes..

Well if you are going to get pi55ed off because other people think differently than you...

Quote from March Hare :

Do you drive with the Shift-F view? If yes then you don't need to worry about the passing aid. If not your gaming is so far beyond unreal that this little device won't make any difference. As for it being unnecessary, it ain't! It would be very usefull for newbies. As is every other aid in this game.

No, i drive with the minimap and other stuff because i got used to it, and because others are taking advantage of all that info, but totaly wouldn't mind having it go..

Again with the newbies.. i was a newbie too and didn't asked for such things, this is a racing SIMULATOR, note the word SIMULATOR, as soon as people realise that, the better.. It is the essence of the simulator to be as real as possible, and that is what it makes it great, real and immersive, it shouldn't be aiming at making life easier to the new people.. it should be rough, tough, unforigiving (as it is) and no more stupid "usefull to the newbies" stuff.. (edit: this actually rhymes?! )

Quote from March Hare :

Dunno. Never played that game. But real planes have a compass. And they use GPS and radar. So they pretty much have the arrow..

Exactly mu point, they have that arrow just like REAL pilots have it, on the display, the GPS, whatever, NOT on the sky and blinking "turn left", "turn left".. you see my point?..
I want LFS to go that route, the hard core simulator route, but it's sad that it probably won't go there, as much as the physics, FF, tires, etc are bad a** and spot on, these litlle arcade stuff are spoiling all the immersion..

I wonder why we done have a spotter system. It makes passing a lot easier. I mean sure looking can be "fun", but when ur in a giant pack it sure helps and saves a lot of headache and guess work.

The passing is not as much of a problem in road courses as in oval. But the oval track become undriveable once there's people on the track who dont know how to look or dont know how to look and keep the car in a single lane (i'm one of them).

Plus once you go 3-4 wide (and that happens a lot with ovals). Then the risk of running into each other is less.

Lamo cheating aids won't help people become better racers, plus this is a simulator. -1

Quote from Gunn :

Lamo cheating aids won't help people become better racers,

How you find having a spotter system as a cheating device is beyond me. It's easier and more practical then looking and mirrors (admit it, mirrors are very limited). I mean going at high speeds on an oval and looking back will sometiems result in you hitting the wall.

Quote from Gunn :

plus this is a simulator. -1

EXACTLY, so there should be a spotter. Unless u think that a spotter is useless and the pros in real life shouldn't race without one. (which i highly doubt)

I mean in real life all forms (except drag and rally) of racing uses spotters, so how is having a spotter cheating?

Quote :

I mean in real life all forms (except drag and rally) of racing uses spotters, so how is having a spotter cheating?

You are either ignorant or misinformed. No form of non-oval circuit racing, whether it's karts, Formula Ford, touring cars, GTRs, Le Mans or F1 or anything in between with either two or four wheels has spotters. Spotters are pretty much confined to oval racing and that's where they should stay in LFS, for the sake of realism.

Quote from Hankstar :

You are either ignorant or misinformed. No form of non-oval circuit racing, whether it's karts, Formula Ford, touring cars, GTRs, Le Mans or F1 or anything in between with either two or four wheels has spotters. Spotters are pretty much confined to oval racing and that's where they should stay in LFS, for the sake of realism.

Really? ok that's not what I was told but ok well thxs for correcting me

I only get my knowledge (and small as it may be) of european sports from season recaps.

Quote from lizardfolk :

How you find having a spotter system as a cheating device is beyond me. It's easier and more practical then looking and mirrors (admit it, mirrors are very limited). I mean going at high speeds on an oval and looking back will sometiems result in you hitting the wall.



EXACTLY, so there should be a spotter. Unless u think that a spotter is useless and the pros in real life shouldn't race without one. (which i highly doubt)

I mean in real life all forms (except drag and rally) of racing uses spotters, so how is having a spotter cheating?

Pros race with spotters? Pros use their mirrors they don't have some voice telling them where the other cars are. Perhaps you are referring to some obscure racing series that is more of a spectacle than an event?

Quote from Gunn :

Pros race with spotters? Pros use their mirrors they don't have some voice telling them where the other cars are. Perhaps you are referring to some obscure racing series that is more of a spectacle than an event?

No no no ur correct it was my mistake. Hankstar corrected me. Only oval racing uses spotters (for obvious reasons).

I'd like it to compensate for the reduced FOV we have because of our small screens. I mean that whenever a car that doesn't appear on our screen enters the normal human FOV from the driver's eyes it should be shown on the screen as you describe it.

+1

I just thought about a mini-rader instead of bars.
No, you don't have this in real life. But sometimes in games or "simulation" you have to compensate.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

You don't have in Flight Simulator arrows on the sky telling you that the airport is on the left, do you?

In Combat Flight Simulator you have a cone that tells you where your locked target is... and a mini-screen that shows all the enemies around you. And we're talking about WWII here.
Is it unrealistic? Yes. But try to spot your moving target using your coolie-hat. Ridiculous. I know what I'm talking about - I've played sims like that.
It has some downsides, but it does not harm the immersion - CFS is the proof.

In the end it helps you not GETTING rammed. If you don't like it, turn it off.

and oh, I feel so immersed when looking in front of me and see the guy racing beside me and the world passing by sideways. come on!

Quote from KeiichiRX7 :

in reality you dont have to have special equipment or a button to look around either

Well, a racing car is pretty special equipment.


As for pitspotters, the only racing that uses them are ovals, and ovals are mostly American. I'd love to be able to say it's because American drivers are useless, and that all other nationalities manage just fine without them, but I'd get flamed if I said it. Oh...

-1. However, it'd be nice if the look function could also temporarily widen the field of view.

Quote from March Hare :

You are just not thinking about the whole community. Yes you who have been playing this game for a long time can look around you with no problems but think of the newbies!

IMO being aware of your surroundings is an essential part of racing that "noobs" have to learn.

Quote from March Hare :

Wouldn't it be great that there was some ingame warning that would tell them you are beside them?

No. Oval racing is an exception of course.

Quote from March Hare :

This is a game! It's not real! It is never going to be real.

True. But I want it to be a compromise between playability and realism (weight on the word realism), and "cheating aids" like this would take it to the wrong direction.

EDIT: Of course there's also aids like throttle control, wheel turn compensation and auto clutch for example, but they have better excuses being there - accessibility (everybody doesn't have a top-end controller).

Quote from March Hare :

This is a game! It's not real!

Just because one part is unfixibly unrealistic (ie staring at a monitor) doesn't mean that we should mkae things worse - why bother making the thing handle like a real car? or have tyres? Why not just make it float 4 feet above the track, because "it's not real"

Quote from tristancliffe :

Well, a racing car is pretty special equipment.


As for pitspotters, the only racing that uses them are ovals, and ovals are mostly American. I'd love to be able to say it's because American drivers are useless, and that all other nationalities manage just fine without them, but I'd get flamed if I said it. Oh...

I'd just like to take a moment to invite Mr Cliffe to go screw himself(1)

Ok that taken care of, you know damn well what I mean. In a real car you have your full field of view(2), and if ya want to look left, you simply do so to your heart's content. There's no ackward mid corner button pressing, or requirment of additional equipment. Chances are unless you have the vision of the average trout you can still see whats ahead out of the corner of your eye, well enough to reflexively look forward again at least should anything sudden happen (not that you should be looking away from your direction of travel for extended periods anyway).

(1)I can think of a certain Ex Formula 1 driver with a few GP wins under his belt that is getting his ass handed to him in an American series. He's even got spotters!
More seriously though, what is your deal with American drivers? Did you have some kind of childhood shattering experience? One touch you in a no-no spot when you were a kid?
(2)In LFS, your view angle is significantly less (just a reality of having a monitor in front of you) even with FOV set at 120 (humans have nearly 180, not quite though).

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Yes i know that, but why make it even MORE unreal than it already is, we all know that this is not reality but we are seeking for the most realistic experience, so why add the unnecessery aids?
You don't have in Flight Simulator arrows on the sky telling you that the airport is on the left, do you?
That's what i am talking about..
And someone mentioned that thing in nKPro where you have to press couple of buttons, while holding gas, to start the engine, unnecesary and a waste of time... i found that to be amazing and utterly immersive..
Just pi**es me off that most people don't think like that, nor the devs themselfes..

I totally agree. If these people cannot think for themselves, what do they do in Real Life on REAL ROADS?! Infact. I already know the answer to this.. They cause crashes.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Well, a racing car is pretty special equipment.


As for pitspotters, the only racing that uses them are ovals, and ovals are mostly American. I'd love to be able to say it's because American drivers are useless, and that all other nationalities manage just fine without them, but I'd get flamed if I said it. Oh...

Who cares about the double post

Tristan, I know its a gag but this is the most pathetic thing I have ever seen. It may be a stereotype, but sadly its true, majorty of guys on here are good but... what kind of retards don't push the pedal down fully? and what kind of tactic is 'drive fast' Oh, i forget... they don't need the brakes much so thats the only thing they need to learn.

You know what's so funny about this?

"You don't need bars (or radar or whatever). Just map a key to look left/right... bla bla bla... noobs have to learn... bla bla... that's racing / realistic."

Var1 / Reality:
- You can see your opponent racing beside you even if you still look in front of you (as mentioned: FOV ~ 180°)
- If there's nothing, you can keep your eyes on the track.
- If there IS anything, you can quickly turn your head to check it out closer.

Var2 / LFS so far:
- You have a big blind area around you.
- You first have to check IF there is anything at all to your left or right (good fun before the first few turns).
- You have to push buttons to "turn your head" to a preset angle, which distracts you completely from what's going on in front of you. That's especially cool when you're really close to the one that's in front of you.

Var3 / Bars or "radar":
- You have a big blind area around you.
- IF there's something around you, it shows on a small screen within your FOV.
- depending on the design of the "helper", you would only have to turn your head for the sake of immersion.

I don't say Var3 is the way it has to be. I just ask: is Var2 really closer to Var1 than Var3 is??

My Var2 is as follows

No big blind spot, because mirrors and screen allow you to see who is going where at what speed before they come alongside you.
Occasionally, it's a bit tricky to tell if they are alongside or not (though most of the time it is obvious by the relative speed as the car goes out of view from the screen/mirrors), and a quick glance is needed.
This quick glance using a button requires no more or less consious thought that just moving your neck.
The quick glance doesn't change the situation in front, as you should never be REacted to anything, but predicting what is going to happen. Therefore it doesn't matter if you can't see forward for half a second. Besides, in real life whilst looking over your shoulder you won't be concentrating on what's in front of the car, even if you can technically 'see it'.

I have no problems AT ALL with blindspots or glancing. It's just natural to me.

Quote from tristancliffe :

My Var2 is as follows

No big blind spot, because mirrors and screen allow you to see who is going where at what speed before they come alongside you.

The only part that I slightly disagree with. There can be a situation where someone leaves your mirror, has the advantage to start pulling up beside you, but can't get to your door (ie. your side view). They are in a blind spot.

The other one is, when you use an FOV for a more natural view (ie. low FOV, meaning more natural in how it looks rather than what you can see), then there is a blind spot at the front corner where if you use instantaneous side look because of how slow the other one is, you can't see the other car.

All other points are indeed true. The 2 blind spots though, can be eased by awareness and anticipation. This is part of the fun, when you are running hard and side by side with another and both move in and out of the other's blind spots in the battle over advantage. It's pretty easy to assume that if someone leaves your mirror, but hasn't reached your door/side view, then he is in that blind spot.