Please, stop trying to improve LFS' business model. Many people have tried to argue about that, and in the worst case it ended with Scawen getting kinda pissed off. It's completely their decision, and your essays will not change the tiniest thing about it.
rofl pay2play
If LFS decides to go pay2play like WoW or something, I'm afraid me and about a million others would quit playing online, and as for the offline stuff, LFS doesn't run offline here at all. Id sell off my account for whatever I could get for it, it would be useless to me. And the amount of time and money I've put into building a cockpit upgrading and such (just for LFS alone) all down the drain.
pay2play, I don't think so
pay2play, I don't think so
i'd appreciate that anyone who wants to give an oppinion here, to read at least half of the posts...
people here seem to understand that if you don't pay you won't play...
S1 users can prove that the impact of S2 was nothing but improvements and wonders... and to the few ones who decided not to upgrade their S1 account to S2, still are enjoying the benefits of the s2 developments... what's wrong with that?
everyone would be able to play as they are doing right now... why everyone is complaining and saying that they will quit the game... why would you quit a game that you payed for, and that still recieves constant improvements? i would like someone to answer me this.
people here seem to understand that if you don't pay you won't play...
S1 users can prove that the impact of S2 was nothing but improvements and wonders... and to the few ones who decided not to upgrade their S1 account to S2, still are enjoying the benefits of the s2 developments... what's wrong with that?
everyone would be able to play as they are doing right now... why everyone is complaining and saying that they will quit the game... why would you quit a game that you payed for, and that still recieves constant improvements? i would like someone to answer me this.
1.How can you be so sure that everyone would be able to play as they can now? And do you really think that devs would give updated content to everyone,in case LFS goes subscription based?
Answer: NO. Whenever you go that way, it's the subscribers who you want to cater for,and not the nonsubscribers(and that would be anyone who sticks with his s1 or S2 licence and does not subscribe,atleast how much I can understand from your "vision")
Why? Because,they are the main source of the income now,therfore you cater to them or no $$$$ for you. And you seriosly think all of those who dont subscribe,wont get eventually either:
a) subscribe.
b) be told to GTFO.
c) will GTFO on their own.
2. This just came to my mind.Server hosters: in LFS,it is the community,that provides the servers. AFAIK,all subscription based games have their own servers. And " Hey, we are paying for he servers,we are paying for the bandwith,yet you are the only one geting the $$$$?" Sadly,unless LFS gets its own official servers(wich is not posssible,due to the cost for 600 servers would be astronomical,at least I think
),this might happen.3. What makes you think that I don't have the right to stop playing LFS if I want to,or anybody else who who paid their 24 pounds/an s2 licence was given to them ect? Newsflash: I,and anbody else,has that right,for any reason that might be,including these:
-LFS goes subscription based.
-something better comes along.
-being bored of it.
-ect.
And to end,just a little thought:
Imagine this:
-LFS goes subscription based.
-Something that is atlest similar(or better) to LFS' physics and has great netcode comes along,but it is not subscription based.
-now lets compute in the fact that:
-nunber of users are from countres where a fiver isn't exactly change.
-This "something" is ready available from stores,or atleast is not subscription based.
Question:
How many users will GTFO from LFS,if LFS goes subscription based,if given a an alternative that s good,or even better,but not subscrition based? I think ALOT.
But again,I'm just a cheapskate from eastern yurop that probably wouldn't gladly donate some cash for LFS if he had a way,and a surplus of it,and devs needed it,right?
Right????
Can the LFS going subscription based discussion be dropped, I really can't ever see it happening, there is no need (financially or otherwise) for the devs to do it, and it is unlikely to be good for the community size, either. The possibility is so remote it's not worth getting worked up about.
i really feel sad for the lack of trust and faith that some of those who have posted here have towarards the developers... i don't know what kind of people are you used to Thunderhead... but i think the developers of this game are NOT that kind...
then... let me at least ask for an optional subscription for those who feel gratitude towards the game developers...
and yes... i would like this discussion to be closed..
then... let me at least ask for an optional subscription for those who feel gratitude towards the game developers...
and yes... i would like this discussion to be closed..
No need, as I have already said, if you feel the urge to contribute more, then you can quite easily add credit to your account, or buy some deserving demo user a license voucher.
vf1-xj220
Oh no, we're not closing this discussion just yet. I wanna give my 2 cents worth now.
Really, if you are that convinced the devs need extra funds, why don't you just donate something? You could do that quietly on your own, no need to involve others.
Regarding the subscription thing, I am utterly convinced that will never ever happen. Why am I convinced? I feel some kind of philosophical kinship, just doing LFS for many years, following its development, I just don't think its in the devs mind set. I am aware this may exist only in my imagination. But it feels right.
I also think you misinterpret some postings here, I don't see any lack of trust or faith towards the devs in the postings here. Some people would pay, others wouldn't. You'd expect that.
Lastly, I just don't think its appropriate to start a post speculating about their financial business model, or to call on others to provide voluntary financial support. It really is none of my business.
Maybe you are projecting your experience as a business owner?
The devs will let us know how they want things to be, when they feel it is time to do so. As indeed they have in the past.
I think you are a bit out of order.
Oh no, we're not closing this discussion just yet. I wanna give my 2 cents worth now.
Really, if you are that convinced the devs need extra funds, why don't you just donate something? You could do that quietly on your own, no need to involve others.
Regarding the subscription thing, I am utterly convinced that will never ever happen. Why am I convinced? I feel some kind of philosophical kinship, just doing LFS for many years, following its development, I just don't think its in the devs mind set. I am aware this may exist only in my imagination. But it feels right.
I also think you misinterpret some postings here, I don't see any lack of trust or faith towards the devs in the postings here. Some people would pay, others wouldn't. You'd expect that.
Lastly, I just don't think its appropriate to start a post speculating about their financial business model, or to call on others to provide voluntary financial support. It really is none of my business.
Maybe you are projecting your experience as a business owner?
The devs will let us know how they want things to be, when they feel it is time to do so. As indeed they have in the past.
I think you are a bit out of order.
i'm not convinced that they "need" the extra funds... i'm convinced that they "could" use the extra funds...
the development of this game has been really smooth since s1... paced yet really fast, and i think there might have been lot of ideas hindered by the lack of funds... skipped really fast just because they are not viable or essencial...
the most close example is the bandwith usage for the high res skins... everyone want's high res skins but traffic costs money, and i'm sure that's not the only thing that it's requiring constant income...
in another post where people is annoyed at skin thiefs... a solution could be that the player tags his skin as private, so when another player downloads them, it downloads to the memory of the computer, not to the harddrive... but that increases bandwith... wich increases costs... just an example.
the development of this game has been really smooth since s1... paced yet really fast, and i think there might have been lot of ideas hindered by the lack of funds... skipped really fast just because they are not viable or essencial...
the most close example is the bandwith usage for the high res skins... everyone want's high res skins but traffic costs money, and i'm sure that's not the only thing that it's requiring constant income...
in another post where people is annoyed at skin thiefs... a solution could be that the player tags his skin as private, so when another player downloads them, it downloads to the memory of the computer, not to the harddrive... but that increases bandwith... wich increases costs... just an example.
Just... arrrgh. Scawen has stated multiple times already that the money is of course nice, but more money will NOT speed up development or magically spawn new features. The limit here is manpower, it's as simple as that. And before you ask, no Scawen will NOT hire additional programmers. He wants to do HIS project at HIS pace and earn HIS money the way HE wants. Any time spent thinking about solutions to problems that don't exist wastes not only your time, but also ours when we have to read it or inform you over and over again that any discussion about this is futile. Just accept it already.
This topic is getting really old now :geezer:
This topic is getting really old now :geezer:
Things are quite simple imho, anyone wanting to further support the devs, should simply donate an amount of his liking.
As for the remote possibilty of having a subscription based S3, I agree with those who argue that the user base will drop dramatically. Actually, I think it would be a commercial suicide.
The argument saying that S1 & S2 uses will remain unchanged is pretty much invalid, since everyone wants the new thing (if it's availabe) but not everyone will be happy to pay monthly for it... it's not the amount of the subscription, it's the policy (attitude) that repells. Sim-racing simply doesnt's work that way all those years. And always there will be at least one free alternative.
Don't forget that LFS is a hell of a simulator, but it also lacks a hell lot of features before it can be characterized "full" (for example, ai, weather changes, night races, real-life tracks, visuals, replay rewinding -lol-, etc). If for example rfactor2 comes up with half of those missing features and offers free online racing with a decent physics engine, then no matter the initial cost, it will tear a subscription-based lfs apart.
As for the remote possibilty of having a subscription based S3, I agree with those who argue that the user base will drop dramatically. Actually, I think it would be a commercial suicide.
The argument saying that S1 & S2 uses will remain unchanged is pretty much invalid, since everyone wants the new thing (if it's availabe) but not everyone will be happy to pay monthly for it... it's not the amount of the subscription, it's the policy (attitude) that repells. Sim-racing simply doesnt's work that way all those years. And always there will be at least one free alternative.
Don't forget that LFS is a hell of a simulator, but it also lacks a hell lot of features before it can be characterized "full" (for example, ai, weather changes, night races, real-life tracks, visuals, replay rewinding -lol-, etc). If for example rfactor2 comes up with half of those missing features and offers free online racing with a decent physics engine, then no matter the initial cost, it will tear a subscription-based lfs apart.
Subscription based would turn me away from LFS. I may have a month where I'm able to play a lot or a month where I hardly touch my PC.
The latter happens quite a lot and as such not a single subscription game has been in my gamelist ever (except in beta testing). The time vs cost is usually a very bad investment for me.
So I'm happy with the way it is now and as mentioned before, you can better donate by buying vouchers then anything else. More players will come in the game, which means more fun and maybe they'll return the favor by either advertising this amazing game/community and/or buying someone else a voucher instead.
The latter happens quite a lot and as such not a single subscription game has been in my gamelist ever (except in beta testing). The time vs cost is usually a very bad investment for me.
So I'm happy with the way it is now and as mentioned before, you can better donate by buying vouchers then anything else. More players will come in the game, which means more fun and maybe they'll return the favor by either advertising this amazing game/community and/or buying someone else a voucher instead.
I'll also say I'm not too keen on the idea. Having to renew a subscription every month or so gets in the way of playing the game. Like topping up your phone card or paying your electricity bill- it's a chore. Even the high-res skins option, which I have no problems paying for, I haven't actually bothered yet because I'm pretty lazy when it comes to things like this.
There's another racing sim which will most likely run on a subscription system- iRacing, so it may not be an incompatible thing with sims, but we'll see. It kindof turns me off. I don't want to 'top up' my games all the time.
There are other ways to help out LFS and the devs, as others have already pointed out.
There's another racing sim which will most likely run on a subscription system- iRacing, so it may not be an incompatible thing with sims, but we'll see. It kindof turns me off. I don't want to 'top up' my games all the time.
There are other ways to help out LFS and the devs, as others have already pointed out.
This seems to be a misunderstanding to you and most of the other posters - vf1 wasn´t intending to speed up development or to ask for features in the first place.
There´s not a single line stating that.
Read before bash.
All he did was expressing that he cares about the project itself and wonders how the makers can afford to keep it up.
And the whole subscription thing was just one idea of many possible,
so relax.
I can understand his concern, I wouldn´t wanna see LFS go away neither.
Who would ?
Now if that isn't "if the devs had more money, we'd have more features - hey, let's give the devs more money so we get more features", I don't know either.
I actually think , Devs, are happy about what they came up with , since they're only like 3 persons, i think The Handicap from SimBin to this is 99.99999999999% , and this game is Waaaay better
And what do you think they are working at? Make it worse?
In his little narrow point of view it can't get any worse, because it's not like rFactor... :rolleyes:
Oh my, I hope not too much. The last thing we want is casual gamers! It's a simulation, and should be made so it only appeals to nerds (like me).
Lol, let us for gods sake hope that
i agree that the game in the actual stage of development doesn´t need a subscription model...
but man... LFS is THE best racing simulator, although i´ve never played NetKar Pro... but damn... no features? are you really a licensed racer? LFS has features that NO OTHER GAME has... please.. tell me of some other game that has unique features like this one.., for example tyre deformation and propietary tyre grip model...
up till now the only game i know that has unique characteristics is GTR2, animated 3d Crew for the trackside for example.. i don´t know about the physics acurracy when it´s raining...but it´s a feat to have rain in the game...
btw... is NetKar Pro worth trying?... i´ve always had the curiosity of trying it and i´ve heard it´s madness...
/EK turns off his cynic button...
I wouldn't be surprised if the arcade racer genre ended up giving way to more complex simulations sometime in the near future. The former has been done to death a million times, but true proper sims can probably be counted on the fingers of one hand. I think big reason for that is that racing games/sims have been limited by technology and the lack of a practical solution to simulating tire physics. But I'd wager people are becoming more and more demanding of what to expect in a racing title, physics being high on their list of concerns because they really do want to feel like they're actually driving a car.
The problem is that a lot of people are probably pretty misinformed as to what constitutes realistic behavior in a driving sim. But the fact that many 'light' sims are actually marketed as 'the most realistic driving experience ever' means that driving realism is what people are actually looking for in a driving game.
I dunno. Thought I'd just type that out because I'm in a very non-cynical mood tonight. Maybe the arcade racer will reign supreme for ever. Who knows...
I've gone off topic. Yay!
Only? I just came from the future and I played GT5 and I guarantee in physics wise it's not going to get much higher than GT4. Yeah, now it will have cockpit views and uber graphics but it's still a game made for masses which means it will take lots of shortcuts in realism to make it easy enough.
hehe... looks like mike need some reading classes.. i said UNIQUE features...
EVERY other game has real tracks
EVERY other game has real cars
A LOT of games have the SAME physics engine
FEW games have a realistic tyre simulation model
at least 2 games have day-night cycle
damn.. please pay attention to what i say... UNIQUE means that no other simulator or game has...
i forgot the progessive graphic deformation model for damage too but i think forza2 has something like that now
EVERY other game has real tracks
EVERY other game has real cars
A LOT of games have the SAME physics engine
FEW games have a realistic tyre simulation model
at least 2 games have day-night cycle
damn.. please pay attention to what i say... UNIQUE means that no other simulator or game has...
i forgot the progessive graphic deformation model for damage too
but i think forza2 has something like that nowLFS is unique truly in all those aspects.
I hope it does become massive, but as i mentioned in another post , LFS needs Racers not users. Counterstrike is worst example i would of chosen, its a poor simulator.
And getting to the topic starters question, Id stop playing ... i think if it became subscription based , i am_not paying for that. that my friend is the way of the coperation. Before i start digging deeper into the reasons why , just remember not everyone can spend a night on LFS every other night , maybe once a week or heaven forbid, once or twice a month
. Not everyone has money to throw around , i know i dont. When you have a family (which i dont) or you have lots of bills (i do) and have no job (like me) money is somthing that increases in value personally.Now just imagine that all games were like this for a second ....... I play only a few games now online, LFS Supreme Commander and DoD:Source. now imagine they cost £3 each to play each month thats £108 a year .... anywaysBest things in life are free anyway
Anyway I hope the devs dont ever think about doing this , and even if they did its their choice. but to try and arge for reasons why is just a lose lose affair in my humble opinion.
and... how are the developers?
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