Quote from Nobo :

Dont think its one line of code...its been suggested over years now. It was already in suggested improvments in the Test Patch section but wasnt included in the patches where it would have been fit into. I dont think i will ever get my mirror
As long as i dont have the same side and front overview like in cockpit like in real car (and thats not possible with one small monitor.), i will not try to switch from chase view.

Same here. I really can´t understand why people who are not playing the chase view voted for no. What is your problem? It´s a fact that some (fast) guys uses the chaseview. Wouldn´t it be nice that they also have a mirror and do not block because of the mirror? What aboutthe tire view? Is that more realistic then the chase view?

IMO it´s not that simple to code a mirror in chase view because its a dynamic view. So the mirror has to be dynamic too. Even a button to switch the view backwards would help.

BTW i dont drive with chase view i drive in cockpit. but there is a few people that drive within chase view and have no mirror so all they do is crash into you when you try to pass, you know the little kiddies (ie: my nephew) that play this 'game' the ones that are around 7 years old.

give them a mirror for christ sake.

Quote from sinbad :

I mean why chase-cam was ever included is a mystery to a lot of us, but that's not relevant here really

because its a great view for specing and judging racing incidents ... not a view for racing

i say give them a realistic mirror ... one that points at the sky all the time

25 people would benefit from a mirror.

34 people dont even drive in that view so your obviosly going to say no.

just let them have it

Or they think that encouraging the use of this view for racing is a bad idea.

Quote from AndroidXP :

Or they think that encouraging the use of this view for racing is a bad idea.

Why is that?

I have no idea why would people use arcade view, but I see no reason for those people not to be able to see what's behind them

I get better FPS on chase view than incar - so I dont think the FPS argument is the reason. IMHO the devs just have got around to putting a mirror yet. The chase view option got a massive overhaul in W patch, so my guess is mirrors will come soon.

Quote from Crazy Harry :

.......Even a button to switch the view backwards would help.

I've done this already...... enjoy looking back on your rivals :-) from FRONT CHASE VIEW. kthnxby

Quote from JasonJ :

I get better FPS on chase view than incar - so I dont think the FPS argument is the reason. IMHO the devs just have got around to putting a mirror yet. The chase view option got a massive overhaul in W patch, so my guess is mirrors will come soon.


I've done this already...... enjoy looking back on your rivals :-) from FRONT CHASE VIEW. kthnxby

How you get that?
I lose around 20 FPS if I going from cockpit veiw to chase veiw :/
Is it only my computer that is screwed then?

I use to use wheels view on my old computer for framerate. Wheels view and chase view had always increased framerate for me.

When speeding through a replay to a certain spot, I set at chase view because it runs better framerate at 32x speed in the replay.

Quote from The Very End :

How you get that?
I lose around 20 FPS if I going from cockpit veiw to chase veiw :/
Is it only my computer that is screwed then?

To be honest I have no idea. I've been in car view once, switched to chase view and gained abut 15fps. 45 --> 60 Only a couple of cars on screen and that was when mirrors were low res. I was baffled myself.

Strange :/
Why does I lose that much FPS when I get to chase veiw?

Anyway, give me my damn mirrow now!

Why don't they give the option to look to left, right and behind?

yes. i use the outside view my self its a gr8 view.

Quote from BlakjeKaas :

Why don't they give the option to look to left, right and behind?

I guess you voted no?

Quote from CSU1 :

I voted yes...why the hell not ffs. imo either bannish that view altogether OR give them a bloody mirror so they can be safe on the track.

Yep, ban the view for racing with but allow for watching replays then no need for a mirror

i voted yes. Obviously i agree with the pov that its incredibly unrealistic, but there are always going to be people driving in that view as long as its available, and its just simply dangerous for those people to not have a clue whats happening behind them.

Quote from Markz :

Here comes the realism nazi..

It's bad enough there's the follow view to begin with. Now you want to add a rear-view mirror to it? In my opinion, there shouldn't have been a follow view since the early days of pre-S1; this game is focused on being the ultimate racing simulator and yet there are driving views like the TV camera and follow? Sure, maybe when you're not actually driving (like when you're spectating or watching a replay) views like the TV camera could be enabled. But for driving, and the sake of realism, I say no.

There still are realism even if you use the chase veiw.
It doesn`t make your car faster, nor do it increas the grip effect, it`s ONLY a matter of choise, and I can`t understand why someone thinks the chase veiw itself should be left out.

Quote from The Very End :

I guess you voted no?

I voted yes...

Not for realism,

but for people who use cahse cam and can't look back (avoiding crashes is harder)

Quote from AndroidXP :

No, and we should remove the option to race in anything but cockpit and custom view too. Let's see how many people get riled up by this :-Þ

Either way is stupid, think about it. Youre not forced to use the chase cam view and you've got also the option for forced cockpit now. So where the problem? I see, just for opinions sake. I dont get riled up by your comment but i think its funny since youre seemed to be a smart guy, once in a while. Anyway....

+11oneleven

btw, the so called "real mirrors" are not realistic as well, i cant see the hatrack nor the rear window heating and when im looking into the mirror of the car infront of me, i cant see my own car but the car behind me ^^ Yeah yeah...its still an alpha...but i see a tang of inrony in here

Ignoring your cheap troll attempt here, I agree, the mirrors on other cars should definitely not show your own mirror picture. I mean, it was a nice idea for showing *something* and not having to waste render time for it, but as soon as you think about it you realise just how wrong it is. Black is not good either, but a shaded window-coloured grey would work nicely I think.

Regarding the chase view mirrors, in my opinion LFS is simply not simulator enough yet, partly for the reason that unnecessary and purely arcade things are still possible. False starts were a good step into the right direction, but we still suffer form longitudinal grip issues making each start pretty much pedal-to-the-metal, but now with a little reaction test added beforehand. Another example is suspension and wheel damage, particularly in the open wheelers, which allows for far too aggressive driving and immersion killing kerb hopping. Or having extremely accurate setup options on the road cars. Or...

Now these examples might be rather specific and to some extent nitpicky issues, but exactly that makes the chase view stand out as a glaringly obvious no-brainer for me. I have no idea how someone can seriously defend the chase view as equally realistic as the cockpit view, or try to devalue the latter one by saying it's not realistic either (sure it isn't, but it's much closer than a magic camera hovering behind the car). For me the chase view itself is kinda similar to the old stabilized keyboard steering; of course people are using it and of course LFS should maintain configurability, but just like the devs removed the countersteer-o-matic keyboard help to make clear that LFS is a simulator intended to be driven with a FF wheel, they should leave out anything that would further encourage the use of a 100% arcade driving view. If LFS supports driving from that view so be it, after all we still support keyboard and mouse drivers too, but there's no need to waste time putting in niceties for people using unrealistic driving options.

Quote from AndroidXP :

Ignoring your cheap troll attempt here

i should have ignored yours as well eh

Quote from AndroidXP :

I agree, the mirrors on other cars should definitely not show your own mirror picture. I mean, it was a nice idea for showing *something* and not having to waste render time for it, but as soon as you think about it you realise just how wrong it is. Black is not good either, but a shaded window-coloured grey would work nicely I think.

Ah its my own mirror, never noticed that. Must be because i never really cared about it. Thanks and maybe its already on the to do list.

Quote from AndroidXP :

Regarding the chase view mirrors, in my opinion LFS is simply not simulator enough yet, partly for the reason that unnecessary and purely arcade things are still possible. False starts were a good step into the right direction, but we still suffer form longitudinal grip issues making each start pretty much pedal-to-the-metal, but now with a little reaction test added beforehand. Another example is suspension and wheel damage, particularly in the open wheelers, which allows for far too aggressive driving and immersion killing kerb hopping. Or having extremely accurate setup options on the road cars. Or...

Now these examples might be rather specific and to some extent nitpicky issues, but exactly that makes the chase view stand out as a glaringly obvious no-brainer for me. I have no idea how someone can seriously defend the chase view as equally realistic as the cockpit view, or try to devalue the latter one by saying it's not realistic either (sure it isn't, but it's much closer than a magic camera hovering behind the car). For me the chase view itself is kinda similar to the old stabilized keyboard steering; of course people are using it and of course LFS should maintain configurability, but just like the devs removed the countersteer-o-matic keyboard help to make clear that LFS is a simulator intended to be driven with a FF wheel, they should leave out anything that would further encourage the use of a 100% arcade driving view. If LFS supports driving from that view so be it, after all we still support keyboard and mouse drivers too, but there's no need to waste time putting in niceties for people using unrealistic driving options.

Looks like you missed the point a bit bc i have never seen somebody saying that the chase view is realistic or even more realistic then the cockpit view. All i heard is that they simple cant drive in the cockpit view which i understand, in some way. Think about it, whats the field of view of a human eye? Something around 180 degrees per eye which makes a total of something around 360. Now im a pure cockpit user but i have to think different when i drive in a game or simulator since the field of view is smaller. So in situations where i would normally just look around or look straight and still see the vehicle(s) around me i have to either get a feeling for the traffic (one is overtaking me -> way/time/speed guessing) or simple press some buttons to look around. Now in this respect i can imagine that some people got big problems with this and they get what they need when they switch to chase view, more or less. And as same as i am unable to drive proper in another view, others are unable to change theirs.

Now my point is and as you have already said (LFS should maintain configurability) why should it be forced when most of the server admins are clever enough to decide whether or not an individual option is useful or not for their own preferences. What if we had just two buttons to decide from. Either realistic/ hardcore mode or normal/ public mode. This would of course include settings for the view, controller, reset option and everthing else that devides ultra realistic (league like) conditions from public "5 minutes sprints". A filter in the server list would make it visible for everybody and nobody would be harmed. Just like the oval, we're there for ages and you where able to ignore us at all time (afaik) and be honest, does it bother you in any way (the Server in the List )?

I think its odd to have a view which one is able to drive with and get used to but you aint get a mirror bc its not realistic enough? Maybe we are still at a stage where i hasn't been dicided yet which way LFS will actually go. Pure hardcore or adjustable and user friendly simulation (which would not exclude the hardcore mode of course).

/consciousness :sleep2:

Quote from 510N3D :

Think about it, whats the field of view of a human eye? Something around 180 degrees per eye which makes a total of something around 360.

Yeah..... I'm thinking about it but it isn't making a whole lot of sense.

Quote from Gunn :

Yeah..... I'm thinking about it but it isn't making a whole lot of sense.

Im not a scientist and im not 100% about these facts but the point is, one flat screen will never reproduce or emulate the humans field of view 100%, right? Therefore, at least for me its comprehensible that some people are able to handle the cockpit view and some people cant. Same goes for the other way around. Maybe its just a question of settings, resolution, FOV, acceleration shifts viewpoint and so on but whatever the reason might be, i dont like the idea that everybody is forced to adjust his own compromise between realism and individual affectations regarding the settings i have mentioned before, at least not for public servers.

So in this respect im asking the same guys who voted with no: would you also vote with -1 when its about the controllers? Forced wheel, maybe even forced wheel with clutch only? Because for my understanding this would be the next step. What about three monitors? Isn't it unrealistic to press a button to look slighty to the left or right when you can have 2 additional monitors which draw that particular view (afaik)?

Quote from 510N3D :

Im not a scientist and im not 100% about these facts but the point is, one flat screen will never reproduce or emulate the humans field of view 100%, right? Therefore, at least for me its comprehensible that some people are able to handle the cockpit view and some people cant. Same goes for the other way around. Maybe its just a question of settings, resolution, FOV, acceleration shifts viewpoint and so on but whatever the reason might be, i dont like the idea that everybody is forced to adjust his own compromise between realism and individual affectations regarding the settings i have mentioned before, at least not for public servers.

Heh, if you had 360° vision you'd see what goes on behind you without moving your head, so it was probably a good idea to admit you're not 100% sure about these "facts"

Yes, a flat monitor cannot reproduce the humans FOV, however you have the option of using the look buttons, TrackIR or a triple monitor setup. Either of these options is more sensible than using a viewpoint that you will never ever have in a real car just so you can easily see what goes on on the side of the car.

Quote :

So in this respect im asking the same guys who voted with no: would you also vote with -1 when its about the controllers? Forced wheel, maybe even forced wheel with clutch only? Because for my understanding this would be the next step. What about three monitors? Isn't it unrealistic to press a button to look slighty to the left or right when you can have 2 additional monitors which draw that particular view (afaik)?

Now that argument is flawed. This poll is about *adding* a mirror to the chase view, not if the chase view itself should be removed. To answer your question, no I wouldn't vote for restricting controllers. I do think that everyone who's not using a FF wheel is kinda missing one of the main/best points about LFS, and personally I wouldn't care if it was enforced or not, but it would be delusional to remove keyboard and mouse support and still expect to get anywhere near the amount of new players than we get now. However that doesn't apply for the chase view and its mirror that would just further increase the usefulness of an already cringeworthily unrealistic view.

I think the best idea is that we just agree to disagree. I have my opinion and you have yours, neither of us is going to change it just because of a few words on an internet forum. IMO it's also quite silly to try to manipulate this simple poll by starting things like "to all who voted against <my opinion>...". Even more silly is to expect that this poll has any influence on the development process of LFS whatsoever, especially if it is located in this very subforum.