Hi lads,

Corvette C6 2.0 is out, this time physics have improved a lot:
- roll 'bug' fixed (much less body roll, calculations match result)
- better diff, it was 'too locked too soon' smoother more progressive feel
- three tyre types, 0.89, 0.98 (std) and 1.07 skidpad G
- real wheelrates
- proper anti dive / anti squat geometry
- more..

I still think its an rFactor car anyone who owns the game should try.

*read the readme* though! you need a few settings (PLR sound settings) to really make it work..

Those interested, make sure you spend some time driving it with a 'well running' rFactor. As long as you're sure you've disabled all the driving aids, get high fps and run 'render ahead' to zero, you get a quick responding smooth game. The supplied Player file will help you with some of those things..

end of off topic.. :0

/niels

http://rapidshare.com/files/51444754/corvette_c6_v2.rar.html

Play LFS fgs.

It's suicide to talk about rTractor on LFS forum

Quote from shadow2kx :

It's suicide to talk about rTractor on LFS forum

Yes, rTractor = :gnasher:

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

Hi lads,

Corvette C6 2.0 is out, this time physics have improved a lot:
- roll 'bug' fixed (much less body roll, calculations match result)
- better diff, it was 'too locked too soon' smoother more progressive feel
- three tyre types, 0.89, 0.98 (std) and 1.07 skidpad G
- real wheelrates
- proper anti dive / anti squat geometry
- more..

I still think its an rFactor car anyone who owns the game should try.

*read the readme* though! you need a few settings (PLR sound settings) to really make it work..

Those interested, make sure you spend some time driving it with a 'well running' rFactor. As long as you're sure you've disabled all the driving aids, get high fps and run 'render ahead' to zero, you get a quick responding smooth game. The supplied Player file will help you with some of those things..

end of off topic.. :0

/niels

http://rapidshare.com/files/51444754/corvette_c6_v2.rar.html

first version was already impressive and im curious about the improvements now. Thanks alot

Edit: brilliant work guys, even if im too lazy to mess around with the real feel plugin, its absolutely great to drive. (G25@720° @ Nordschleife )

Thanks, will test right away

Kids that don't understand what this is could be quiet and crawl back under rocks they came from Try it with real feel and you find rTractor being something else that you were thinking it is :cyclops:

I don't have rFactor to try out your car Niels but:

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

- better diff, it was 'too locked too soon' smoother more progressive feel

Is that a case of changing locking factors/what we have in LFS setups, or something different?

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

- real wheelrates
- proper anti dive / anti squat geometry

Well I have to say, two things completely missing in LFS (to my knowledge). How much difference have those changes alone made?

I am actually considering buying rFactor now. Am I going insane?

Will have to try it, the first version rivaled LFS in terms of feel

Quote from Bob Smith :

I don't have rFactor to try out your car Niels but:


Is that a case of changing locking factors/what we have in LFS setups, or something different?


Well I have to say, two things completely missing in LFS (to my knowledge). How much difference have those changes alone made?

It changes the lock % (though this car has basically a locked diff looking at wheelspeed differences from 40% lock) and also a 'pump' setting, the part of the diff that increases lock toruqe as wheelspeed difference increases.

Anti dive is important. Real wheelrates of performance cars are still low! 1.2hz is not uncommon. A beemer M3 has aparantly 18000N/m front wheelrates. The Vette has 22500N/m. Without antidive you are in serious trouble with a normal centre of gravity height of about 50cm, it'll dive onto the bumpstops. Without anti squat and anti dive, I simply could not work with the real wheelrate data.

Anti squat also helps the rear end drop with low wheelrates.. I use some 15 .. 20%, which is 'guessed' though compared to videos it seems to be ok now.

In many ways like full 3D suspensions, rFactor isn't as simple physics wise as many people think.

Edit: and now even the tyres don't suck anymore!

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

Anti dive is important. Real wheelrates of performance cars are still low! 1.2hz is not uncommon. A beemer M3 has aparantly 18000N/m front wheelrates. The Vette has 22500N/m. Without antidive you are in serious trouble with a normal centre of gravity height of about 50cm, it'll dive onto the bumpstops. Without anti squat and anti dive, I simply could not work with the real wheelrate data.

Could you please elaborate a bit, never heard of such settings. Are those settings some kind of rFactor-made-up-physics-thingies-to-make-it-somewhat-feel-right or real world suspension geometry fundamendals? Fast-bump dampers? Fast-bump damper threshold?

This was not a troll, by the way.

Quote from spankmeyer :

Could you please elaborate a bit, never heard of such settings. Are those settings some kind of rFactor-made-up-physics-thingies-to-make-it-somewhat-feel-right or real world suspension geometry fundamendals? Fast-bump dampers? Fast-bump damper threshold?

This was not a troll, by the way.

Anti dive is the tilting of the upper wishbone..


purely physical, very much real and very much often used to some extend on real cars

Dampers are not uncommonly 'low' and 'high' speed. Very common in racing and probably somewhat used in road cars as well.. not sure.. Its simply the speed at which the damper moves. Below a certain speed damping x is used and above this speed damping y is used. suspension movement 'speed' at which this changes is the threshold.

rFactor does more suspension thingies than LFS at the moment, full 3D.. so you get bump toe, dynamic roll centre movements, dynamic roll camber rates, scrub.. the lot..

The problem is just that it needs 291301 fixes/tweaks, a lot of dedication and at least 2 external programs till rFactor produces something usable. Maybe the ISI guys programmed a mighty realistic engine - they just completely failed to deliver realistic parameters for their content and tools as well as documentation that would make 99% of the mods out there not suck. Such a shame that all the modelling talent is wasted on shoddy mods because you need deep knowledge in vehicle dynamics to create something useful.

we had the most amazing few races last night on Road Atlanta. Just awesome. I felt like being part of a best motoring clip or something. Totally awesome. This mod is better than LFS, imo.

Did you make those vids you mentioned?

Quote from AndroidXP :

The problem is just that it needs 291301 fixes/tweaks, a lot of dedication and at least 2 external programs till rFactor produces something usable. Maybe the ISI guys programmed a mighty realistic engine - they just completely failed to deliver realistic parameters for their content and tools as well as documentation that would make 99% of the mods out there not suck. Such a shame that all the modelling talent is wasted on shoddy mods because you need deep knowledge in vehicle dynamics to create something useful.

To get realism you need to first understand realism.

Of course with doing bit more planning, doing things bit more from user point of view you would not need so much detail, but thing is that without access to real car it is fairly impossible to find enough data to make it act like real car even in perfect sim, also some things can't still be measured practically, but for such game designer could provide help. For example virtual wind tunnel could be one, of course it would take ages to compute results and it is not too simple thing to code virtual wind tunnel, but that would help users great deal.

Our problem is need to have more realism, it drives us to problems as it requires load of work to achieve that realism, still we make it and look even more realism, even more work, but that is what sim fans are, that is what separates us from arcade boys that just like to get spin around in indestructible shiny car that looks cool.

Hmm...

I think I'll fire up Factor and take this out for a spin.

Anywhooo...

I slighty disagree with the 'it does more things than' mentality's superiority. When even the devs themselves don't know how to utilize the potential or features (documentation, create tools, etc.) then what's it worth in the end?

I'd like to have a solid base to build on, instead of firing blindly hacked up values in the hopes it'll produce a pearl in a pile of poo that is rFactor's mod status at the moment.

I think problem is that devs seem not to spend enough time for what they do from some odd reason, but hard to say why they use wrong values in their cars or why they tune handling way they have done or whatever.

Maybe if they hear enough feedback they might get bit inspiration to try bit more.

I would not say that you need to use hacked values to get good result out from it, using real ones might work out pretty well :P

Niels, I'll try to record while I drive tonight. The rFactor replay systrem just don't give enough fidelity, and don't give enough credit. I'll post some incar stuff from Road Atlanta in a little while.

Quote from atledreier :

Niels, I'll try to record while I drive tonight. The rFactor replay systrem just don't give enough fidelity, and don't give enough credit. I'll post some incar stuff from Road Atlanta in a little while.

Have you turned all the high fidelity replay options on?

Quote from Bob Smith :

Well I have to say, two things completely missing in LFS (to my knowledge). How much difference have those changes alone made?

at least for wheelrates i dont see any reason to implement them into lfs
from my understanding all they do is transform the spring stiffness into another constant value

Quote from ajp71 :

Have you turned all the high fidelity replay options on?

i think he means physics wise as the cars in replays look completely dead compared to lfs

DAMN.

Now I'm going to have to buy this POS to test this mod out; I was waiting for the updates.

Are you planning on making any more cars in the future Niels?

Who else has tried it? Let's have some feedback.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

DAMN.

Now I'm going to have to buy this POS to test this mod out; I was waiting for the updates.

Are you planning on making any more cars in the future Niels?

Who else has tried it? Let's have some feedback.

Haven't touched rF in months.. but decided to take a look.

Understeers like a bitch, but that may just be a natural trait of the car, I've not driven one.. but it felt pretty good anyway.. running rF 1.150 without any external plugins.

Suspension movement is very noticeable, even in the replays, which is a rarity for ISI as the replay physics are normally highly dumbed down and cars seem to be permanently "flat". Couple of screenshots attached showing some body movement



Regards,

Ian

Quote from Ian.H :

Haven't touched rF in months.. but decided to take a look.

Understeers like a bitch, but that may just be a natural trait of the car, I've not driven one.. but it felt pretty good anyway.. running rF 1.150 without any external plugins.

Suspension movement is very noticeable, even in the replays, which is a rarity for ISI as the replay physics are normally highly dumbed down and cars seem to be permanently "flat". Couple of screenshots attached showing some body movement



Regards,

Ian

Did you have FFB wheel? If so, you certainly should try realfeel, it makes force effects actually useful, also you would like to get 1.250 patch, that is latest version.

My experience is that car does not understeers too much, it is street car so surely it has not similar turn in as race car, but as there is no substitute for cubic inches there is no substitute for proper throttle usage, use right most pedal to turn it

There are some issues in it however, damage is horrible, all you get is wheel felling off and small dents, there is no severity in crashing at all and this is damage set to 100%
Of course damage engine does not support fibreglass, but I would prefer to see car getting hurt from 50mph hit to wall so people would avoid doing such things and there bit unrealistic looking but severe damage would serve it's place just fine.

Haven't driven enough to comment handling much more, however tire squeal is excellent with C6 driver profile (read readme, it is really important to get good experience with this mod), must drive bit more to get it tested well, but I think I prefer mailing from that

Quote from Ian.H :

...

What's the track?