Can you expand on your point about the cars not moving very realistically? I watched the video a couple of times and didn't spot any glaring problems with the way the cars move; suspension movement, lateral and longitudinal weight transfer, body roll, dive and squat, all looked plausibly realistic to me. The only aspect that looked un-natural was the way the car juddered across the gravel trap but even that wasn't glaringly bad. What areas of the vehicle dynamics do you think they need to improve? Bear in mind that I haven't played any of the Gran Turismo series since GT2 about 7 or 8 years ago so I'm not familiar with how the series has progressed since then.
Can you expand on your point about the cars not moving very realistically? I watched the video a couple of times and didn't spot any glaring problems with the way the cars move; suspension movement, lateral and longitudinal weight transfer, body roll, dive and squat, all looked plausibly realistic to me. The only aspect that looked un-natural was the way the car juddered across the gravel trap but even that wasn't glaringly bad. What areas of the vehicle dynamics do you think they need to improve? Bear in mind that I haven't played any of the Gran Turismo series since GT2 about 7 or 8 years ago so I'm not familiar with how the series has progressed since then.
One major issue in the gt series is that the cars feel like they turn in the center axis of the car rather then the wheels themselves. This has to do with the physics engine and the way it handles "physics".
In terms of looks, it IS the best and most realistic looking racing "sim" in the world.
I know there are a lot of people that are trying to resist the urge to call something other then LFS good but please be realistic. LFS looks like something from back in 96. If it wasn't for the physics none of us would even look at LFS's direction. While physics are much more important then looks, all it takes to drive LFS into the ground is a developer creating a sim with good physics and half-assed good looks.
In terms of looks, it IS the best and most realistic looking racing "sim" in the world.
I know there are a lot of people that are trying to resist the urge to call something other then LFS good but please be realistic. LFS looks like something from back in 96. If it wasn't for the physics none of us would even look at LFS's direction. While physics are much more important then looks, all it takes to drive LFS into the ground is a developer creating a sim with good physics and half-assed good looks.
I think almost any one of those GT5 screens, if you showed them to someone 5-10 years ago, they wouldn't believe that these are screens from a computer game. Those graphics are extremely cutting edge... Wein's right, about having to stylise a little in order to keep out of the uncanny valley (and S Fisher makes a good point about the limitations of reproduction), but so what? The only thing truly ruining the presentation are the NES style graphics in the mirrors, that's actually a little bizarre, it's kind of funny.
Who knows about the physics? Probably they will suck compared to LFS, but I just don't understand why someone would want to crap on the graphics as well. C'mon, credit where credit's due!
PS- I'm not going to buy a PS3 just so I can play this game
Who knows about the physics? Probably they will suck compared to LFS, but I just don't understand why someone would want to crap on the graphics as well. C'mon, credit where credit's due!
PS- I'm not going to buy a PS3 just so I can play this game
There is not that much body roll. Cornering speeds are ridiculously F1-like. Breaking from 200 km/h to 100 km/h in few metres... basicly it doesn't look much different compared to GT4 from the few onboard vids I've seen from the Leipzig Convention (yes, GT5 now actually has incar view, too bad the view isn't bundled with new physics engine).
This thread was hilarious in some way... Some people have really thick LFS fanglasses. Even that generally graphics in LFS are regarded quite not so amazing, some people basicly claim it still looks better than everything else?
As much as I really hate this so called "the real driving simulator" GT franchise, I have to admit that the car models are simply incredible and good example of next-gen games (seems to be minority these days) without that goddamn bloom shit. But I wouldn't say it's the best looking game ever - no way, the track environment for example looks quite basic and not really on same level with the car models. Also I don't like the depth of blur effect, it's almost as stupid as bloom. But the details on the cars...
.
Well, the body roll and weight transfer in the two excerpts in the attached zip look pretty good to me. These and similar segments suggest to me that they've got at least the core of a proper vehicle dynamics simulation in place.
Irrelevant of the physics, what makes it look so nice is that the cars are made up of (on average) 200,000 polys. Even adding all the LFS cars together won't get you that.
Add in a load of pixel shading for extra detail and you've got a veritable portrait.
But I bet it wouldn't run on 80% of the current LFS users computers.
Wait to see what happens with S3 graphics. While they might not be on a par with new PS3/360 games, it's doubtless going to get prettied up a lot.
Add in a load of pixel shading for extra detail and you've got a veritable portrait.
But I bet it wouldn't run on 80% of the current LFS users computers.
Wait to see what happens with S3 graphics. While they might not be on a par with new PS3/360 games, it's doubtless going to get prettied up a lot.
This GT game does look nice from the screenshots i've seen, but all the screenshots i've seen have been post processed, including the one you posted. Look at the background, i'm sure that focal effect is done in photoshop not in the graphics engine.
Looks mighty nice indeed. Is there some link to a higher resolution video or longer clips ?
It's not necessarily a Photoshop effect. When taking photos in Forza 2 you can adjust the level of motion blurring and the aperture and focus of the "lens". It's just a Dx effect (like a controlled version of LFS's motion blur mod).
Whether or not it's there when actually driving is a matter for discussion, since it's pretty hard to tell. But I don't think it is. Post process, yes. Post-screen grab, no.
It's weird though. Sure, the GT5 screenshots are impressive. But there's just something missing that doesn't look realistic (like the previously discussed F1 07/08 screens). They look almost rubbery. I can't put my finger on exactly what it is (and since I don't notice it so much on the 360 it might just be related to the PS3 GPU), but a lot of games are starting to look that way. It's like you take out the bloom and suddenly there are no features.
Please someone tell me what it is!
Those excerpts are from the 'Tearing up the Track' video which StewartFisher mentioned in post #22: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/857/857126/vids_1.html
IMO the way the cars move about in LFS is amazingly realistic.
My jaw was like this
when I first saw the STCC intro video. Especially the way the cars went down the corkscew in AS1, it looked really good.
But I thik GT5 look WAAAAAAAAAAAAY more realistic. These shots haven't been post processed in photoshop or anything. Becky Rose: What makes you believe that they have? Graphics in games get better and better all the time, with effects like HDR etc. Just because GT5 will have better graphics than LFS doesn't make LFS less of a game. To me LFS is by far the best racing game there is. Gameplay > Graphics.
My jaw was like this
when I first saw the STCC intro video. Especially the way the cars went down the corkscew in AS1, it looked really good.But I thik GT5 look WAAAAAAAAAAAAY more realistic. These shots haven't been post processed in photoshop or anything. Becky Rose: What makes you believe that they have? Graphics in games get better and better all the time, with effects like HDR etc. Just because GT5 will have better graphics than LFS doesn't make LFS less of a game. To me LFS is by far the best racing game there is. Gameplay > Graphics.
Of course the blurring accounts a lot for the loss of details. But also the lighting system is still very simple compared to RL lighting. To me the cars look 'frosty' rather than rubbery, but I think we're just pulling words to say that the lighting looks artificial (anyway we're both picking nits
). In RL there will be many smaller starry highlights which dance along the cars as the view changes (when sunny) and that's just missing in GT5. The other thing might be that there is no crappy pixelation anymore, so the eye just skips over the surfaces, leaving really the modeling and lighting for the most part to make up the image.The tracks still look quite simple- they need to be really. They don't look any more sophisticated modeling wise than LFS tracks. But the extra info packed into the shaders and higher resolution textures should make up for that.
Maybe there is no dust in this GT5 world. Everything is squeaky clean.
Nope, sorry. It's all in-engine. Even GT4 on the Playstation 2 had depth of field effects in replays. With a few post-processing passes after rendering the frame, it's really not that hard to do these days. It's (thankfully) not active when you play though. (Well, it wasn't in GT4, not sure about 5)
It looks like someone took a screenshot from a racing game with empty track and then photoshopped the cars on it from real car pictures.
I think that is what makes it look slightly artificial. The cars are so detailed they don't seem to be really on the track.
I think that is what makes it look slightly artificial. The cars are so detailed they don't seem to be really on the track.
its many things but in this particular case its mostly that they try to make it look like photos (which ic just wrong in every way) and worse they make it look like marketing/showroom photos ... in fact most of these shots remind me of top gear a lot which is nice for a tv show of high production value but will put the game right down into the cuncanny valley
how about that some 90% of publisher release screenies (possibly more for console games) are bullshots nowerdays ?
Yes, I thought the same thing. They're like car ads from a glossy magazine or something. It's an idealised look.
Well, they probably misunderstood the word photorealistic.
I'm sooooo going to buy a PS3 when GT5 comes out, plus a G25 if I haven't in advance.
I can't understand bashing its physics. There's nothing wrong in all the videos I've seen. And if GT4 is any indication, they'll probably include some super grippy tyres, but the underlying physics will still be good. Definitely nothing like pivoting in there!
The art direction, as mentioned, is excellent. It has a little of HDR, a little of bloom, a little of depth of field, all nicely balanced. The cars look mighty clean but it doesn't really trouble me, and certainly not too out of place on the track.
Plus they included dashboards this time, where the lack of them kept me away from GT4. All is great now. I'll be patient.
I can't understand bashing its physics. There's nothing wrong in all the videos I've seen. And if GT4 is any indication, they'll probably include some super grippy tyres, but the underlying physics will still be good. Definitely nothing like pivoting in there!
The art direction, as mentioned, is excellent. It has a little of HDR, a little of bloom, a little of depth of field, all nicely balanced. The cars look mighty clean but it doesn't really trouble me, and certainly not too out of place on the track.
Plus they included dashboards this time, where the lack of them kept me away from GT4. All is great now. I'll be patient.
This isn't a topic I would usually contribute to, I just don't see the graphics in LFS as they are more than adequate and my suspension of disbelief is complete.
My reason for posting is to pass on comments I have gotten from people who have seen LFS on my computer (pretty much all the visitors to my place get a demo
). They unanimously claim the graphics are really really good.
Sure, maybe they've never seen gran turizmo or even heard of any of these racing titles, but when they see out the cockpit of a vehicle in Live for Speed, they see what they would expect to see in real life.
I've never heard someone say "that looks grainy" or "why do the walls like like that" or "what's with those trees" etc etc etc, no, comments by absolute neophytes about LFS are along the lines of "wow, it looks real good, doesn't it?".
My reason for posting is to pass on comments I have gotten from people who have seen LFS on my computer (pretty much all the visitors to my place get a demo
). They unanimously claim the graphics are really really good.Sure, maybe they've never seen gran turizmo or even heard of any of these racing titles, but when they see out the cockpit of a vehicle in Live for Speed, they see what they would expect to see in real life.
I've never heard someone say "that looks grainy" or "why do the walls like like that" or "what's with those trees" etc etc etc, no, comments by absolute neophytes about LFS are along the lines of "wow, it looks real good, doesn't it?".
word :D
I've been following after all GT5 news, facts, screens and videos that I could find so I had to say something here, seeing that sadly there are people whose ability to be objective and appreciative ends with LFS - maybe blind fanboyism or simply lack of knowledge about other sims/games (not offending anyone, but it is just the impression I often get in this forum :shrug
LFS imo has the best road car physics atm, but the problem for me is the lack of licensed cars and tracks. So there comes my interest in gran turismo, although I understand that the previous installments weren't sims (gt4 wasn't very far), there is a strong possibility that GT5 might finally deliver...
- this time it's really aimed at online (as well as offline) racing via ps network and home with all those nice features for community, tournaments and so on..
- there are going to be two selectable driving physics models: standard (all videos are from it)- updated and fixed gt4/gthd engine; professional - new complex physics model for hardcore simracers.
- 16 cars on track (of course not on par with pc sims, but when comparing to consoles and especially considering car modeling :O ) will be enough to have interesting races imo.
On topic: I think that graphics are simply stunning (best racing game gfx by far) with those 200k polygon car models, real interiors, subtly used effects as heat haze, swinging grass from the wind and NOT overdone IN GAME post processing. They said that current mirrors and driver hand animations are only placeholders and are being worked on. Plus they are planing changing weather and damage this time. So considering that what has been shown so far is only an unfinished build of a prologue of a final GT5, you have to be really shortminded(wrd?) to ignore it
p.s. sorry for a long post
LFS imo has the best road car physics atm, but the problem for me is the lack of licensed cars and tracks. So there comes my interest in gran turismo, although I understand that the previous installments weren't sims (gt4 wasn't very far), there is a strong possibility that GT5 might finally deliver...
- this time it's really aimed at online (as well as offline) racing via ps network and home with all those nice features for community, tournaments and so on..
- there are going to be two selectable driving physics models: standard (all videos are from it)- updated and fixed gt4/gthd engine; professional - new complex physics model for hardcore simracers.
- 16 cars on track (of course not on par with pc sims, but when comparing to consoles and especially considering car modeling :O ) will be enough to have interesting races imo.
On topic: I think that graphics are simply stunning (best racing game gfx by far) with those 200k polygon car models, real interiors, subtly used effects as heat haze, swinging grass from the wind and NOT overdone IN GAME post processing. They said that current mirrors and driver hand animations are only placeholders and are being worked on. Plus they are planing changing weather and damage this time. So considering that what has been shown so far is only an unfinished build of a prologue of a final GT5, you have to be really shortminded(wrd?) to ignore it
p.s. sorry for a long post
I haven't seen rubber marks in the videos. If it's still missing, it is really unbelievable. There should be no technical reasons for not implementing so simple thing. They could have done that already with PS1.
Difference in "pro" mode is unknown so far. They only said it's different to normal mode. Maybe you can now actually do a doughnut with RWD cars in "pro" mode. That would be a huge improvement...
I think they talked about "possibility" of including damage later as downloadable update. Which is weird, damage isn't just something you can suddenly add to the game in 5 minutes. Also damage was already once said not to be in GT5 (in July) and regarding how many times in general they have promised damage in the history of GT games, I don't take that very seriously.
People have to really shortminded to eat all the PR bullshit Kazunori Yamauchi have been feeding for years. Starting from the "the real driving simulator" slogan. Unfortunately millions of players who have never even seen a PC sim are eating all of it. Good example of PR bullshit is this legendary excuse for not including damage because car manufacturers don't like it. Now they suddenly do like it because they are talking about including damage in GT5?
I went through the shots beforehand, looking for tire marks, and thankfully I did come across one (see below). This was the most roughed up pic in the whole bunch- from the details on the Bridgestone sign, and that little patch of dirt on the road.
The GT dev team has wanted to include and develop damage for models for a very long time (like they initially did) but the contract between car makers and the dev house restricts it. However, rumors are that the contract was up for renewal this fall and they are fighting to get damage included in future versions. Whether it makes it into GT5 is still unclear.
I'll see if I can find the link to the article about this and edit the post. (I think it was somewhere on GameSpot but I'm not sure)
Also keep in mind that the game is planned to be realeased as a free download.
It's hard to bitch about something thats this good (as a game not a sim, of course) when it's free.
I'll see if I can find the link to the article about this and edit the post. (I think it was somewhere on GameSpot but I'm not sure)
Also keep in mind that the game is planned to be realeased as a free download.
It's hard to bitch about something thats this good (as a game not a sim, of course) when it's free.
OMG, GT5 supports next-gen TALL SCREEN GAMING TOO!?
If the Simulation Mode and/or simulation Tires are decent and the online play is not a total PITA, GT5 will be in the purchases along with a PS3.
The online "home" and calender to allow car clubs and friends to easily coordinate is simply awesome. Just schedule a meet with friends and let them accept or deny the invitation all in game, in one simple central place. The game/web forum community building ain't all that smooth or convenient. One clean simple interface with voice messages is much more efficient.
The online "home" and calender to allow car clubs and friends to easily coordinate is simply awesome. Just schedule a meet with friends and let them accept or deny the invitation all in game, in one simple central place. The game/web forum community building ain't all that smooth or convenient. One clean simple interface with voice messages is much more efficient.
Can someone tell me if this is possible.
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