Quote from DreaF :

cut or no cut?

After the MoE rules
Cutted (entry and exit of the chicane Edit: and the last corner )

What's so hard to understand on this rule:

Quote from Hoellsen :

...Make it clear that two wheels are on the curbs ...

I think the rules should just be don't you can cut to an extent but don't take the piss with it, basicly what some people done int he qualifying by cutting nearly as much as was possible.

The only real way to sort this out with using force is for everyone just to agree to be fair with there cutting, if not then we will all continue with differnt opinions and feelings on what we can and cannot do.

Quote from BBO@BSR :

Cutted (entry and exit of the chicane)

Plus the last corner.

Quote from Blackout :

Plus the last corner.

Yes right (I forgot that part)

ok ...

Quote from PaulC2K :

Hey, im only replying to how pathetic it is complaining that the FZR needs help, The XRR gets punished whether the admins feel its excessive or otherwise, the FZR gets away scott free unless the admins feel its intentional.

I wasnt the person running in a Ferrari asking the Spyker to be slower so they can be competitive with it!!

To point out i was not having a go at you paul.. And ray shut up sack boy :P JK

I think all of this is stupid and thats the MoE admins should come up with something fast before this gets even more out of hand. You cant watch every driver in race incase they cut a corner and they wont want too in the race so i really think its pointless even talking about that even if the fzr can handle bumps better than xrr because at the end of the day it still get damaged and costs alot of time to repair in pits. I do agree with the major cuttin in quali tho.

To clarify visually, picture 1 is what we expect to see in qualifying. The same applies to any other corner on the track.

Picture 2 will probably be without a doubt something of a common occurrence during the race, though not necessarily frowned upon entirely. Just don't be doing it often, or you could be given a penalty. Picture 3 is self explanatory... that is what we don't want to see anywhere over those speed bumps.

I agree with Chriskart regarding the fact that it's innatural to force racers to use a slower line if there is a faster one and to avoid this there should be cones or something to mark the border of usable track.

And as I experienced going through the sand with 4 wheels also gives you time advantage (as you can go through the chicane much faster overall this way) so it should also be banned. (Of course it can happen inevitably in the race a few times but not always.)

So because its faster, it invalidates the rule that 2 wheels must be on the track at all times?

How about this for a crazy far out suggestion, we stick to the rules.
The 2 wheel rule isnt hard to understand, its pretty much common sense, either your on the track or your not, and if your gaining by intentionally leaving the track then its cutting, therefor cheating.

I have to agree also...If there is something to be done about this corner then cones should be put down as a marker. Comes is the only way i think to solve this problem.. BRING ON THE CONE HEADS

Quote :

Will everyone who took such a line be punished accordingly?

Yes.

Is this "new" rules only for quali or for race too?
Are you going to delete all laps now and have new quali, and MERCURY lap too!!!
And is this valid that i have on screenshots?

The no cut is for the race as well. Your screenshots seem valid. We will have a 2nd quali session anyways, so no need to hold a "new" quali. If folks cut there again, we will simply have them starting at the back, won't we?

I dont think this no cutting is a new rule Niki

Quote from Hoellsen :

Your screenshots seem valid.

It looks to me that NIKI's 2nd screenshot (exit) does not have 2 wheels anywhere near the kerb, I think Tweaker has clarified the entry with pictures, but surley that exit is cutting no?

I am not being pedantic, just seeking offical clarification.

I am not sure who in this thread, are offical moe admins and who are not. Is there a list of the admins?

SD.

Tweak and I are admins. I said seems valid since I'd rather see all this in motion. But there is a simple way of solving all this: If in doubt, don't.

According to Tweakers fine work, Niki's screenies doesn't show a legal cut. But according to you it "seem" OK. You two are contradicting - what is really OK?

If this issue isn't clarified in time, then I'll go by what seems to be OK (that the smaller green patch is allowed) - and if I get penalties for doing so, I'll refer to your post which currently is the latest official word on whats OK (clear or not, it's up to interpretation). Rules shouldn't be suggestive or vague but either this or that - that should be easy to do when it comes to cutting and should have been done a long time ago.

You also can't expect people to read through all the posts - you need a more detailed rule set and then and only then can you expect people to go by customized rules, especially regarding cutting - otherwise most people will just assume the line have to be HLVC valid. Also - cutting is apparently a big subject, since it's being discussed so much - however no words about cutting at all in the rules.

I'd say let's take Tweaker's neatly designed image as the rule, since that way it's nice and clear for everyone. Can we have a final answer now please? To be honest I wouldnt want to tell my drivers to change their lines again, one day before the qualifying and two days before the race.

Quote from Hoellsen :

Tweak and I are admins. I said seems valid since I'd rather see all this in motion. But there is a simple way of solving all this: If in doubt, don't.

I don't need to see it in motion to see that he is clearly on the green patch - by that I don't mean that you shouldn't either, but your post suggests to me that it's OK even when Tweaker says otherwise.

The thing is with all this cutting discussions is that there is no absolute answer. It's pretty easy with the first part of the chicane (the left hander) where especially the FZR has no negative consequence whatsoever out of being where it's not supposed to be. The right hander however is not quite as easy, as it has the sand there. The sand slows down the car and makes tires dirty which can lead to a slower overall time. Therefore a picture of the left hand part can make everything quite clear, the right hand side needs a little more information. What we really want to avoid is actually not the cutting, but gaining an advantage out of it. So if with cutting the overall sector time is slower than it would be by the same driver without cutting, no harm done and no penalty. That is the way it is handled in real life racing as well, as most of you probably know and it is a reasonable assessment to go with.

Again: if in doubt, don't. If you are not sure wether you are legal or not, adjust the line in a way that you are. Yes, I know, we all are racing drivers and we all want to find the fastest way around. I am no different when I am sitting in a car. But here right now I do want to see moving action, either with a from behind or a heli view to have a final word.

here is little movie and there are 3 examples.
Lap 1 - 40,64 (normal lines like in screenshot, 2 wheels over gravel and dirt is there)
Lap 2 - 41,12 (sliding and trying to have left wheels on color curb but goes again on green part)
Lap 3 - 40,54 (braking way to late, entering corner way to direct and going over gravel but still fastest way around, something like mercury did on quali)

so this showes that there are some other physic rules in 2nd part and that it should be considered as hlvc. Also there is way to check yourself and if you see gravel in left tires after you are done with corner you did it wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL_ETuNa8oE

I understand where you are getting at, but IMO the rules about cutting should be generic - entries as well as exits. What you are talking about should be judged during or after the races by the officials.

Or.. make it clear - it wasn't clear to me that exit curb isn't being treated same way as the entry curb. This would put you guys into more work, as you need to have it clarified for each track where it's OK to cut and where it isn't - and again, it would get even more difficult for everyone to keep up with the rules, if these things are only mentioned in randomly numbered posts.

Seriously, I don't understand what's wrong with Tweaker's explanation.
"Keep two wheels on at least the curb at all time, and the green patch is NOT a curb"; universal solution that can go for every track on the calendar and it's clear as glass. I don't see why you need moving images to make a decision.

Quote from traxxion :

Seriously, I don't understand what's wrong with Tweaker's explanation.
"Keep two wheels on at least the curb at all time, and the green patch is NOT a curb"; universal solution that can go for every track on the calendar and it's clear as glass. I don't see why you need moving images to make a decision.

I agree [with traxxion].

Quote from traxxion :

Seriously, I don't understand what's wrong with Tweaker's explanation.
"Keep two wheels on at least the curb at all time, and the green patch is NOT a curb"; universal solution that can go for every track on the calendar and it's clear as glass. I don't see why you need moving images to make a decision.

i dont agree because its not so simple to do that as to say it. You go out and try to do it, i did and check vid. I also did cut over the rumble strip once in few laps earlier and it was because i turned in to early, i also had some run offs like in lap 3, its not easy as it looks like when you are driving 200+kmh.
As Hollsen said, its best to see it as if you dont gain any time from cut as its ok!

Quote from N I K I :

i dont agree because its not so simple to do that as to say it

I bet a million you would be able to do it if there would be a concrete wall instead of that run-off strip.