Quote from DieKolkrabe :

LFS should be accessible to everyone IMHO and if Scavier decide they want to make it a complete hardcore sim, then that's their decision, but it'll turn a lot of people, including potential license buyers away. Look at nKpro for instance.

NKP is invalid example. The game is dead because it's unfinished, online doesn't work and the developer has abandoned the community - not because it happens to have few neat features. People keep briging it up everytime, stop it please.

Quote :

Also, WTF is with all the elitism on the forums/in-game, the whole 'z0mg! teh keyboarders are using the wrong controllers!!' line of thought. If you took KB/mouse support out, people would just find a workaround. I did for nK, I used joy2key. Not everyone can buy/can use a wheel, there are people out there who have a job, who have a family, or are disabled or just don't have space for one. Or they can't afford one Yes. It's true. A wheel/pedal set takes up a fair amount of room. Are those people somehow not 'hardcore' enough to play LFS? The attitudes of a group of people on this forum stinks of total and utter elitism. 'oh, person X has a job/doesn't have a wheel/is asking for n00b features/is doing something else to piss off the 'hardcore' people/is on a cruise server/is wanting more cars, he /she shouldn't play LFS isn't 'hardcore'.' IT IS TOTAL AND UTTER FECKING BULLSHIT.

If you're referring to what I said, I said "you should realize your position as a minority". Wheel and pedals is most natural and logical way to play a sim. Thus the "right way" playing it. By default it's obvious that you should play the game with the proper controller setup. Or do you disagree with this?

Would you go to flight sim forums saying "gimme some aids because I can't handle the F22 with my keyboard, and if you don't do this I will call you elitists bastards and leave the game for good"?

And who is taking the keyboard/mouse support away? All I want is that you do the same as everyone else. You're immediately at attack formation when you hear that something might be taken away from you which you shouldn't have been taking for granted in the first place (referring to the auto blip/cut thing).


...

I found a preview of the first multiplayer server!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIZJfI2QjWY

Quote from Blackout :

I think he was just trying to sound clear and understandable as possible. Try making a voice over a video and try sound enthusiastic sitting in front of your computer talking on your own. I'm sure that you would sound the same, at least after you've twenty eight times failed to say what you wanted.

Oi, I spend most of my days at work talking at front of group, usually those are older and more experienced ones too and I need to get them excited and to learn new things, while keeping group in tight control

I also do material to these people where I need to talk to video, damn it is annoying to listen

Quote from deggis :

Would you go to flight sim forums saying "gimme some aids because I can't handle the F22 with my keyboard, and if you don't do this I will call you elitists bastards and leave the game for good"?

exactly, if someone can play LFS without aids on with the mouse/KB then the more power to them. but the aids shouldn't be a requirement.

Quote from JTbo :

Oi, I spend most of my days at work talking at front of group, usually those are older and more experienced ones too and I need to get them excited and to learn new things, while keeping group in tight control

I also do material to these people where I need to talk to video, damn it is annoying to listen

Yes, but teaching the elderly in relatively small group to use e-mail and talking face to face (well, your looking the back of the room anyway) is different than talking for a group of 23 million addicted nerds who will pick on your words and treat them like word of God, and all that from your own computer. And besides, coders don't usually become coders because they can present them self trough verbal communications do they? I would think not, but that might a nasty stereotype.

Anyway, carry on. Back on topic! Whatever that is at the moment, l33tability of LFS I guess?

Quote from Blackout :

I think he was just trying to sound clear and understandable as possible. Try making a voice over a video and try sound enthusiastic sitting in front of your computer talking on your own. I'm sure that you would sound the same, at least after you've twenty eight times failed to say what you wanted.

I wonder could Scawen have accepted some outside help: http://youtube.com/watch?v=awlqbcJZd38

Quote from Dj-Aeri :

I don't know if it has been posted before, but anyone know's the changes on the physics?

Thanks in advance.

To help you out a bit in all those speculations around here:

Gearboxes changed,
Clutches can heat up,
engines have other inertia.

that's all, if I remember correctly from the vid.

Quote from tailing :

But who are you to decide who should be playing LFS? Who made you judge of what other peoples needs are? What's to say that the next complete noob with no idea about car control will never see the value in the realistic simulation that LFS is?
I'm glad the devs have some sense about them and realise that these small concessions, which have virtually no negative effects at all outside of pissing off supposedly hArDcOrE sim racers, open the wonderful world of LFS to those who might not initially see it's value.

Not that I think at this stage that the line in the video is anything more than an AI related tool but I would welcome the inclusion of a beginners racing line as I still remember how much help it was back when I first started learning SBK2001. It would have absolutely zero effect on my LFS experience but be very useful for someone new to sim racing.

This is by far the best post in this thread IMO.

Quote from Vykos69 :

engines have other inertia.

Other?! More..

Quote from JTbo :

Scawen did sound awfully tired in that video, could not sense passion in his voice,

Quote from Blackout :

I think he was just trying to sound clear and understandable as possible.

I think he was trying to sound as quiet as possible. I got the impression the rest of the family were asleep.

Quote from UncleBenny :

exactly, if someone can play LFS without aids on with the mouse/KB then the more power to them. but the aids shouldn't be a requirement.

Hey thanks that's what I try to do.
No wheel at home (various reasons - work laptop to play, no desk, no time, anti-LFS wife, kids too young so my LFS time is during their sleep, flat too small, fear of terminal LFS addiction...)
I miss FFB a lot but still like to disable cut / blip / brake help, and hate the sound of flatshift. I'm for sure not a hardcore player but if LFS was easier I would never have purchased a license.

What I find extraordinary in the current LFS is the possibility for a wide range of people to find the good time they are looking for, from newbies using autogears and KB steer to hardcore G25 3 pedals forced view competing seriously. And I do not hink these extremes ever have to meet given the large number of unoccupied servers. Eventually newbies will appreciate the game and get rid of the helps. Please remember to keep the forum as welcoming as the game itself , it can only bring benefits.

Quote from Jakg :

I do think the fact he uses Custom Textures in LFS Promo's is stupid, but meh.

Stupid? yes.
Done on purpose? no.

Anyway, its not like that half of the textures were custom.

Quote from Don :

Stupid? yes.
Done on purpose? no.

Anyway, its not like that half of the textures were custom.

Lol!

Quit yo' jibba jabba, crazy foos. I'm looking forward to this.

Slow cars mean fun, close racing. Doors or no doors :banana:

Quote from tristancliffe :

And that would be a good thing! LFS is too popular at the moment, especially after the surge because of the Sauber, and the cruising posse.

I can understand that lots of people 'aren't like me'. But I also understand that a lot of people who play LFS don't really enjoy most aspects of it - they want it to be finished tomorrow by a group of monkies, with track/car editors, bling graphics, drifting tournaments, crusing inclusions, driver deaths, sampled sound, support for ANY controller, radios, bodykits, NOS, arcade overlays, driver assists...

I, and others like me, realise that that isn't the point of LFS, and would prefer a simulation of racing at it's most purist (with obvious concessions for computing, which is a disclaimer I've had to start adding as too many stupid people read the words but don't understand the meaning), without aids, concessions to crap controls (or crap jobs, crap parents or any other reason why people play simulations without getting the single biggest improver of realism - a wheel), or too much arcadey nonsense. I'd even like a lot of the telemetry to be removed from the road cars so that hotlapping is more about 'feel' than about number crunching between runs.

You've been here for 3 years - it's Tristan, not Tristian. I think that explains a lot though.

Great post! Totally agree..

I'm not saying we don't need more players, of course we do, but we need players with common sense, players who love motor sport, who apreciate that this is a SIM and they have the WILL to learn it, that's the point.. We don't need the people that are put off by the ferocity of controling a car, we want players that will find a challenge in that and who wants to improve!
Flight simulators are mentioned, perfect example, those kind of people don't want a guy who comes to their forums and whines that is too hard, of course it's freakin' hard, it's a PLANE! Exactly the same thing as with cars, i don't want people who say "it's too hard, make it simple, give me the ideal line displayed!", etc...

I hate to side with Blueflame () and Tristan here, but as _rod_ said I think some of you are completely missing Tristan's point.

No one wants LFS to become an elitist playpen for a select few with the right equipment and skill set. This is not about wealth, skill, knowledge, choice of controller, anything like that. This is about the attitude of people coming in to play the game. It's about whether people are willing to put the time in to learn to drive with their controller of choice.

Dumbing down the simulation by adding too much help and assistance for the "newbies" attracts people with the wrong attitude. The people who blame the game for their own failure as a driver. The people who expect to rock the racing world with their skills coming in to the game, and who leave in a huff when they realize they won't. IMHO LFS does not need these people, and should not pander to them. In fact, LFS is probably not the game these people are looking for and they'll be much happier playing something else. Nothing wrong with that.

The point is, anyone can play LFS provided they are willing to learn. You don't need expensive equipment and the reflexes of [your favorite F1 driver here], and patch Y will not change that. What you do need though is a willingness to learn and adapt as LFS evolves. If you're not willing to do that, LFS is not for you. Period.

You learnt and adapted when you first started playing, so can today's newbies.

Woot - some people can read and understand. Sorry to sound a bit .... but I didn't expect many people to get my point(s) - I've always been crap at explaining things, especially when a) I get heated and b) someone fails to get my meaning and interprets me as some sort of LFS Dictator.

Agreed.

Look at this thread though - we've got lots of old-timers who aren't sounding at all confident about something simple like switching auto-blip off, so it's the same for everybody. The difference is that the proper LFS racers are amused by the fact that they're having difficulty with it, and excited about learning whatever new skills are required.

IMO if you're not willing to put the work in to drive the car, not interested in being 100% responsible for your lap time, then LFS probably isn't for you. It's not about how expensive your pedals were.

Surely this isn't all about people complaining and whining about difficulty and asking for "idiotic" suggestions in the forums is it? LFS isn't the forums. Maybe if Scawen regularly made changes on the basis of these suggestions and complaints I'd be concerned about its direction. He doesn't, and I don't give a damn about the countless repeated suggestions for things which I don't want from newcomers.

I just find the "LFS is too popular" sentiment more idiotic than anything else I've read in this thead. Sounds like cheesy fanboy speak, but give Scawen and co. some credit. The forum might become more populated by nos-seeking cruisers as the numbers continue to increase, but I don't think LFS will suddenly drift away from the realistic, serious, online racing philosophy as a result. Just be glad people continue to buy LFS licenses!

edit: Wien's post makes more sense, but is there really a sense that LFS will do that? Or are we/you actually asking for it to move further towards "hardcore" on the basis that too many of the wrong kind of people already play it, which was the impression I got.

I agree with you, Tristan

It is very good imo though, that LFS is popular, but the community nowadays is very different to how it used to be. Although that can't be helped with the much larger userbase...

not sure if its been mentioned already and ive missed it but the bf1 in real life is able to upshift without using the clutch or lifting off the throttle, it would be a pity if this has been lost

Quote from tristancliffe :

Woot - some people can read and understand. Sorry to sound a bit .... but I didn't expect many people to get my point(s) - I've always been crap at explaining things, especially when a) I get heated and b) someone fails to get my meaning and interprets me as some sort of LFS Dictator.

I`ll agree, there might be many points that I missread, or does not completely do understand due lack of english knowlege.

I just want to point out that people should be able to play the game how they want. If it`s a wheel, keyboard, pad or if it`s chase veiw, cockpit veiw or custom veiw. What I hope, and beg for, is that there will be no more "limitations", that decrease the enjoyment of this fantastic game. I do understand that people find it strange and utterly stupid that I and others chose to drive with chase view, it`s all ok. But, as someone has asked for many times, baning chase veiw and other optional choises or put restrictions and limitations of any kinds is a bad idea.

It`s a matter of taste. Sure, maybe I should used that cockpit veiw back in S1 demo days, but I used chase veiw, and canot drive good with any other way Silly - yes, but I still have a little realistic feeling over the game, even if I fly behind the car

But thats my oppinion, we all got one. And sooner or later you`ll meet people with other oppinions, and it will end up in a discussion. But even if you have an oppinion, the most important thing is to be able to put yourselfe into others situation. Still, I don`t say that anyone have right about anything, but if your able to put yourselfe into other shoes and look things from their points of veiw, I think that is good.

Quote from tristancliffe :

LFS is too popular at the moment, especially after the surge because of the Sauber,

whilst i know what your saying, i'm sure the devs must love the idea of you saying they should earn less money just to keep you happy

Quote from tinvek :

not sure if its been mentioned already and ive missed it but the bf1 in real life is able to upshift without using the clutch or lifting off the throttle, it would be a pity if this has been lost

BF1's gearbox is complelty diffirent from "other's" and will not loose it simply because its the way it works IRL

Quote from Huru-aito :

Other?! More..

SILENCE




I KILL YOU!