Quote from thisnameistaken :

Ah I hadn't thought of TrackIR. I didn't think the tracking would be good enough to steer with.

it is very good
the things that let me down are the autobox and digital brake and throttle

but im not complainng

How would that have changed anything in this case? I didn't say you are a disabled monkeyboy or anything. I just said, in a general way, that I don't think LFS should pander to disabilities (amongst other things). Not that you can't play at all. I'm not going to say I like all disabled people, they are all amazing, as I'm sure there are disabled people out there I wouldn't want anything to do with, and wouldn't want playing LFS. But I didn't.

Some people are really touchy. Chill.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I didn't say you are a disabled monkeyboy or anything.

I think Tristan's been kidnapped by Ricky Gervais. :slap:

Quote from tristancliffe :

I just said, in a general way, that I don't think LFS should pander to disabilities (amongst other things).

It doesn't need to. It's got super-configurable controls, and that's all anybody really needs.

Seriously Tristan.....Leave it.....It's leading nowhere.....

If someone repeatedly misreads your posts you will not be able to convince him/her (<- PC! ) that you did not mean what he/she understood (.....or even wanted to read into your words).

I agree that LFS should never be watered down realism-wise just to make it easier to go fast for anyone.....that includes ALL input methods.....

CU, Sebastian

There are plenty of alternative control solutions, some people were fast in GPL with joysticks, only limitation being the lack of separate throttle/brake. Given that most cheap joysticks now have a throttle on them you've also got a spare axis to use as clutch if just dumping it off the line isn't good enough.

If you want to take it more seriously Thrustmaster make a wheel with analog paddles.

EDIT - just seen a later post in this thread: @BoyRacer - given that your disabilities are far too limiting to allow you to have a car adapted for you to control IRL I can't see much hope for you to be able to play LFS when it develops further. If you've only got access to one axis and two digital buttons then unfortunately there's not a lot that can be done. Like RL LFS isn't meant to be an easy environment and with any sim you'll hit the issues you would IRL (except physical fitness and safety concerns).

I think that maybe the two extremes of this argument aren't really all that extreme, guys like tristan aren't trying to block disabled people from playing LFS and guys like myself who are in favour of certain concessions aren't "arcarde" racers and aren't trying to dilute the sim that LFS is.
The world isn't black and white, "sim racers" and "arcade racers" don't really exist.
The purer the sim LFS becomes the more necessary certain aids are for beginners to overcome the initial difficulty, it's as simple as that. I welcome improvements to the LFS gear change system as I started using a clutch about three years ago, I already play LFS in a more realistic manner than most "hardcore" people seem to, how does that fit into peoples pre-conceptions?
A keyboard user with auto blip and cut is far removed from a wr holder flatshifting to gain an advantage.

Apologies if my thoughts are a bit jumbled as I'm really quite drunk atm

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Odd.

honestly it does not
in many ways driving with the current selection of consumer market wheels is more akin to a kid holding dishes in his hands and making engine noises than it is to driving a car
apparently you and me both get enough enjoyment from being that kid to play this game of pretend for years and rack up more than 2000 posts each talking about how fun it is but as far as the interface to the game goes its more pretending than realism

Quote :

my G25 makes me feel fuzzy, but it's not cheap plastic (well, the unimportant circle of representation thing isn't at least, neither are the pedals)

so its cheap chinese (i could make a clever pun in reference to the aforementioned dishes but id rather not) leather and steel with a shifter that is just that ... cheap plastic
as niels has shown the wheel just isnt up to the job of doing anything more than 300° and the shifter feels lets be honest nothing like stirring around in a real gearbox (in case youre looking for an easy way out this discussion mentioning that youre from north america and have no idea what a shifter should feel like might work )

Quote :

What in the...but... b.. but.... but...
...
:wtf2::faint2:

Yeah, going 720 degrees in the swoop of the wrist makes much more sense than turning a silly circle!

that is of course a problem but the thing about overcompensation is that it enables the user to restrain himself to turing the wheel at a resonable speed rather then forcing him not to

Quote :

Just takes finesse, can be done ok.

maybe it can be done but at least for me forcing my foot to do things which feel wrong instantly ruins the trip to imagination land and gets me back firmly into the cold hard truce which is that im resting my feet on deflection sensitive pedals that are useless for heel and toe in more than one way


at the end of the day all availabke methods if input force you to pretend your using a cars controls rather than offering a truely realistic representation of those ... if holding something that resembles a wheel does the trick for you fine but you shouldnt believe what you do takes any siginificantly lower amount of pretending and abstraction than using a mouse

So basically you are saying that it doesn't matter what kind of controller you have, it's always too unrealistic to have. So the chances are, you shouldn't play, or....let the more unrealistic options be equally fast than the more realistic?

Imo, a circular thing (even a plate) is always closer to a wheel used to steer a car than a devise which has its look from a small critter. It has the same principal, which is a circle rotating around the axle. Of course, if you use a more twisted logic, you could think the mouse as a devise used to control the driver's hand or the player. With a wheel you put yourself in the position of the driver automatically.

Quote from tailing :

Apologies if my thoughts are a bit jumbled as I'm really quite drunk atm

Damn sight more clear than most round here.

boyracer1981, don't worry about Tristan, he becomes a parody of himself if you goad him. He's a nice boy really, with an admirably sharp sense of humour, but tries a bit too hard sometimes...

About the line... I never got it to work properly on my machine, but it looks to me like the ghostcar mod, drawing the path (you can see the red braking area in one shot). I mean, someone use some sense - why would the devs add a feature that is already available as a mod? For convenience sake maybe, but why is it such a big deal if the mod is already available?

Quote :

Imo, a circular thing (even a plate) is always closer to a wheel used to steer a car than a devise which has its look from a small critter.

That's probably why you're not a designer. Not to say that 'unusual' means better, just that 'usual' doesn't always mean perfect either.

Quote from nihil :

That's probably why you're not a designer. Not to say that 'unusual' means better, just that 'usual' doesn't always mean perfect either.

Now now, I was referring to what the devises used to steer an automobile for the last 100 years normally has been.

Tristan, you were insensitive and impolite when you said boyracer1981 should be more specific than just saying he was disabled, and stating that he's probably got something between an ingrowing toenail, or no legs at all. So you were wrong as well as his disability is not in the range you suggested.

I don't think it's reasonable to expect everyone who is disabled, to express their disabilities in every case, and not simply say they are disabled. In some cases they may be sensitive about that themselves. You could use your imagination. Consider that someone who says they are disabled, might have gone through a hard time, and doesn't deserve to be patronised by you. If you want to know someone's disabilities, you could ask, and they may or may not wish to reply.

This is nothing to do with what you or boyracer1981 are discussing, I am talking specifically about that post you made, it was rude, it's not just "you", it's not just "lack of political correctness", that post was just plain rude. Got it?

So basically, Tristan, you've made our god irritated. Congratulations!

Please, let's try to get this thread back on-topic. If we cant do that, maybe it just needs a lock, and the forum shut down. All this flaming, trolling, and whining is just sickening for a community I thought to be much more mature.

Quote from Scawen :

Tristan, you were insensitive and impolite when you said boyracer1981 should be more specific than just saying he was disabled, and stating that he's probably got something between an ingrowing toenail, or no legs at all. So you were wrong as well as his disability is not in the range you suggested.

I was making the point that I didn't know what disability he had. People overuse the term, and therefore it could have been anything. In hindsight, perhaps it was a little insensitive, but it wasn't meant in any way to make light of what turned out to be a severe and non-funny disability.

Quote :

I don't think it's reasonable to expect everyone who is disabled, to express their disabilities in every case, and not simply say they are disabled. In some cases they may be sensitive about that themselves. You could use your imagination. Consider that someone who says they are disabled, might have gone through a hard time, and doesn't deserve to be patronised by you. If you want to know someone's disabilities, you could ask, and they may or may not wish to reply.

I wouldn't expect them to state it all the time, or reveal the fact they are. In fact, I didn't really want to know, and I was just (as I said above) making the point that I didn't know what disability it was, and attempting to cater for all manner of states. It was not a predetermined way of belittling anyone, or poking fun at anyone.

Quote :

This is nothing to do with what you or boyracer1981 are discussing, I am talking specifically about that post you made, it was rude, it's not just "you", it's not just "lack of political correctness", that post was just plain rude. Got it?

Then I offer my sincere and heartfelt apologies to boyracer1981, and hope that he and I can continue to discuss matters arising as sensible people regardless of what was said, intended or understood. Sorry boyracer.

One question, does the outcome of this thread determine the release date of the patch? If so, we're doomed.



Bored and out of ideas.

I belive that there is no date yet. Since Scawen said that the patch is beeing tested at the moment. But it`s going to be before x-mas ;D Maybe tomorrow? But thats just rumors...or are it?

uh I really missed all the good news heh...
never thought it could be that freakin much work to be director in a short film team... :O

anyways, good news

Quote from tristancliffe :

I was making the point that I didn't know what disability he had. People overuse the term, and therefore it could have been anything. In hindsight, perhaps it was a little insensitive, but it wasn't meant in any way to make light of what turned out to be a severe and non-funny disability.

I wouldn't expect them to state it all the time, or reveal the fact they are. In fact, I didn't really want to know, and I was just (as I said above) making the point that I didn't know what disability it was, and attempting to cater for all manner of states. It was not a predetermined way of belittling anyone, or poking fun at anyone.
Then I offer my sincere and heartfelt apologies to boyracer1981, and hope that he and I can continue to discuss matters arising as sensible people regardless of what was said, intended or understood. Sorry boyracer.

im not one to hold a grudge
so all is good

Funny how these kind of threads used to be Happyness from the 1st post to the last post when the community was still small
Do we still wish for it to grow ? :P

We will end up with some countries building nuclear bombs and wars being declared cause of LFS

I have an idea, let's start decreasing the size of LFS community, ban each member who turns a happy thread into a shoutng thread

I just read Tristan's post properly and whilst the message was understandable the delivery was pretty appalling

Hehe, the problem isn`t the new people. It`s the old people that complains on the new people. Then the new people gets offended, and offend the old people. Then the old people get really pissed of and starts the flamewar.



Nobody is any good.

Quote from Taavi(EST) :

One question, does the outcome of this thread determine the release date of the patch?

Hahahaha. We were given the opportunity to live in peace and harmony, and we chose to bite eachother's throats out - now we'll be eternally banished to rFactor for our sins.

Quote from RudiTurbo :

Funny how these kind of threads used to be Happyness from the 1st post to the last post when the community was still small
Do we still wish for it to grow ? :P

We will end up with some countries building nuclear bombs and wars being declared cause of LFS

I have an idea, let's start decreasing the size of LFS community, ban each member who turns a happy thread into a shoutng thread

Good thinking. "LFS is too popular".

What flamewar? All I've seen has been discussion with varying amounts of sense. Arguments are not flaming, you can not have a discussion without them.

So we need to make an agreement, here and now, that we'll never start a flamewar in a post made by a developer. All the flaming must be done behind closed doors (PM's). Zero tolerance to flaming, even intelligent flaming. Criticizing is allowed only if it's thoroughly thought through, if you don't agree, PM! If a moderator finds any flaming in these threads, it'll be quoted, sent to the appropriate addressee and then deleted from the thread. Simple enough, eh?

Remember it's only these types of threads, i mean announcements from the devs.


OMG, what's going on with me?