Quote from ajp71 :

You can turn 90 degrees, although the shortcut is rather awkward to use. Have you actually looked 90 degrees in any of our single seaters (except the FOX) there's nothing to see unless your view clips through the high sides (which needs to be sorted)?

I am not using cockpit view.

(edit: dead Angel= blind spot)

Quote from Shotglass :

while all of this is true i seriously doubt that a 450hp formula engine would not be designed in such a way to use its powerband effectively instead of cutting it short with a limiter

oh yes, it is. that's why some (probably all) of them can temporary disengage the limiter to accelerate a bit harder. sporty cars and sportscars have their maximum power just a tad before or even on the redline - that's just the way it is. reving further would be better for acceleration but worse for engine-life.

where you put the limiter is a question of how long you want the engine to live.

Guys, there is no 45° look restriction. You have to press both look keys to look 90° now, that is all. The only thing that got removed was looking back 180° which was very unrealistic in any case.

Quote from AndroidXP :

The only thing that got removed was looking back 180° which was very unrealistic in any case.

yes indeed, but i liked it a lot.

Quote from StableX :

Clutch Damage
Last but not least, I love the clutch damage but feel for endurance racing this element causes too many issues and restricts certain cars from these events. I think the ability to repair the clutch or at least to make it driveable to 'orange' after a pits visit should be made available OR clutch damage should be a serverside variable that can be turned on or off. Having this as a serverside option gives valuable feedback on what the community like and dislike and prefer for your fantastic game.

How on earth do you suggest one changes a clutch in a pitstop? I'm not opposed to it so long as it takes at least an hour. Apparantley the current clutch heat system will allow the clutch to cool completely if you stop abusing it without damage, which is unrealistic but currently at least means that clutch heat won't be an issue in endurance racing.

Quote from SchneeFee :

I am not using cockpit view.

That's more reason why you should be limited to see no more than those in cockpit view

Quote from Bandit77 :

where you put the limiter is a question of how long you want the engine to live.

which on a f3000 would likely be no more than 1000km
still not convinced and afaik f3000s didnt provide all that much in the way of on the fly redline adjustments

Quote from ajp71 :

How on earth do you suggest one changes a clutch in a pitstop? I'm not opposed to it so long as it takes at least an hour. Apparantley the current clutch heat system will allow the clutch to cool completely if you stop abusing it without damage, which is unrealistic but currently at least means that clutch heat won't be an issue in endurance racing.

Read this months edition of Racecar Engineering - they have a small article on a compound clutch (two clutches on top of each other, one spare) that they reckon a rally driver and co-driver could change in 5 minutes in stage.

However, as that's new it's not a good excuse for this problem

Quote from ajp71 :

That's more reason why you should be limited to see no more than those in cockpit view

noone is forced to use cockpit view. at least not yet.
The day cockpit view is the only view available i ll quit playing lfs.

Quote from SchneeFee :

The day cockpit view is the only view available i ll quit playing lfs.

Oh well. Bye in advance!

ok, this was mentioned briefly before but I think I have to say this (again):

shifting using a "standard" wheel with "flappy paddles" resp. buttons to change gears now totally sucks.

now you have to push a button (clutch) and another one (gear) to shift... name ONE rl car where you have to do this.

ok, the flat-shifting cutting the throttle a bit is realistic, but non-H-shifter-and-clutch-pedal-users should still get a chance to shift conventionally (i.e. not flat-shifting) without being finger-virtuosos.

I know that the average hatchback hasn't got a sequential gearbox with flappy-paddles, but not having the big hardware it feels much better in the game to have the computer cut/blip throttle and clutch than doing it with a bunch of buttons.

... if this stays as it is, I will have to get a macro running for the shifting-procedure.

Quote from ajp71 :

How on earth do you suggest one changes a clutch in a pitstop? I'm not opposed to it so long as it takes at least an hour. Apparantley the current clutch heat system will allow the clutch to cool completely if you stop abusing it without damage, which is unrealistic but currently at least means that clutch heat won't be an issue in endurance racing.

didnt joest/audi routinely change the entire gearbox and rear axle on the r8 in about 5 minutes a few years ago ? not sure if the clutch was part of the gearbox package as well but either way once the gearbox is off changing the clutch isnt that much additional work

Quote from SchneeFee :

noone is forced to use cockpit view. at least not yet.
The day cockpit view is the only view available i ll quit playing lfs.

Yoou should really try it, though, it's much more immersive.

(only in my opinion, of course)

So, anyone care to help me out with this (or maybe it's too OT and I should open an extra thread in general discussion?):

Quote from Linsen :

I'm a little puzzled by the sequentials, though. I thought most?/many?/all?/some? sequential gear boxes needed clutch and throttle blip on downshift, but apparantly they don't work like that in LFS. All I tried you could easily down shift without blipping and the clutch doesn't kick in either (I'm auto clutching). Am I wrong in my (very limited) knowledge about sequentials? Or do we only have types in LFS that don't need blipping and clutching?

(sorry, if this a dumb question or if I have gotten something mixed up)

Quote from Bandit77 :

ok, this was mentioned briefly before but I think I have to say this (again):

shifting using a "standard" wheel with "flappy paddles" resp. buttons to change gears now totally sucks.

now you have to push a button (clutch) and another one (gear) to shift... name ONE rl car where you have to do this.

ok, the flat-shifting cutting the throttle a bit is realistic, but non-H-shifter-and-clutch-pedal-users should still get a chance to shift conventionally (i.e. not flat-shifting) without being finger-virtuosos.

I know that the average hatchback hasn't got a sequential gearbox with flappy-paddles, but not having the big hardware it feels much better in the game to have the computer cut/blip throttle and clutch than doing it with a bunch of buttons.

... if this stays as it is, I will have to get a macro running for the shifting-procedure.

Errr.........it's called autoclutch and all you have to do is just lift the throttle, whats so hard about that?.

No change for non-clutch users really, all they need to do is lift the throttle when changing gear

Quote from deggis :

Remember this?

Many forum users will have been expecting the finished GTR racing car interiors to be included, as that was originally planned for Patch Y. But the Formula BMW caused a change of plans, so those much anticipated interiors aren't quite ready yet. Anyway, the FZ, XR and XF GTR and road car interiors are near complete and will be released as soon as possible.

Can't think of any more unclear way to say it First of that "as soon as possible" might mean anything in LFS timezone, but what I would like to hope that there would be a nother incompatible (cockpits not possible in compatible) patch soon. I mean how could you say "as soon as possible" if it means another 12+ months perioid until next major patch.

I do remember that! just wanted to make things a little clearer

Quote from Scawen :

The XF, XR and FZ road and race car interiors are mainly done and look very nice, but Eric isn't happy to release them yet because of certain details which are wrong or incomplete.

None will be released in Patch Y but they will be released as soon as possible. They are a high priority, along with certain other parts of my work that need to be updated so finally we'll be able to remove the ALPHA tag. These things just take a lot of time as the standard is higher now.

Thanks, really looking forward to it

Quote from Bandit77 :

shifting using a "standard" wheel with "flappy paddles" resp. buttons to change gears now totally sucks.

now you have to push a button (clutch) and another one (gear) to shift... name ONE rl car where you have to do this.

Not sure if I'm missing something here, but what were you doing before the patch if you, apparantly, don't have a clutch paddle, yet you chose to manual clutch?

edit: danowat beat me easily by 2 minutes

Quote from danowat :

Errr.........it's called autoclutch and all you have to do is just lift the throttle, whats so hard about that?.

No change for non-clutch users really, all they need to do is lift the throttle when changing gear

Yep, I don't know what the fuss is all about.
The FBMW is a piece of cake to change gears with. You drive, hold the up-paddle, quick lift of throttle and it changes, release paddle. Just as you would pre-load the seq. lever in the real thing.

Quote from Shotglass :

which on a f3000 would likely be no more than 1000km

you're absolutely right. therefore 3l roadcars don't rev to 9000 rpm and produce 450 hp.

by the way, I just read they were limited to 9000 rpm by regulations, so you can be pretty sure that's where they had their maximum power - anything else wouldn't make much sense, unless you can produce far more than 350 nm of torque with a 3l non-turbo engine.

Quote from Linsen :

Not sure if I'm missing something here, but what were you doing before the patch if you, apparantly, don't have a clutch paddle, yet you chose to manual clutch?

edit: danowat beat me easily by 2 minutes

I think he was just trying to change gears with the throttle wide open, which the FBMW makes impossible.

Just got the new patch.

I love the new physics, the cars feel much more stable and it seems that finally the crazy "sim only" setup on the FOX is gone (setting full tire pressure and full camber on the FOX is no longer the best setup ;-) ) The cars feel like they respond much more realistically to setup changes.

The removal of the dodgy flat-shift trick is also good news. However like you guys I play with a paddle shift on my G25 (the pedals arn't aligned well for heel and toe I find).

Anyway, the problem is that you cannot smoothly downshift without heel and toe because the transmission locks up upsetting the car. This is great because it's realistic but surely the auto-clutch should be stopping this? Maybe I'll post a bug?

Quote from danowat :

No change for non-clutch users really, all they need to do is lift the throttle when changing gear

... which is not nearly as smooth as RL-shifting, and most of all nonexistent in RL and just a LFS-only-hassle.

Quote from Linsen :

what were you doing before the patch if you, apparantly, don't have a clutch paddle, yet you chose to manual clutch?

I didn't clutch manually and I don't now. I just pushed the "up-paddle" and stayed on the throttle - like in any RL "tiptronic"-car.

Quote from sinbad :

Yep, I don't know what the fuss is all about.
The FBMW is a piece of cake to change gears with. You drive, hold the up-paddle, quick lift of throttle and it changes, release paddle. Just as you would pre-load the seq. lever in the real thing.

I've never driven such a car in real life so I can't really tell. Must be similar to a motorbike.
I was talking more about the roadcars anyway.


You know, it's like with many other things in games/sims that want to be realistic: there's a feature added that may be realistic at its own but doesn't add to the realism in context but only makes the gameplay more complicated (which is not equal to realistic).

Is shifting tiptronic-style realistic? Not generally but at least for some cars.
Is it the most practicable solution for standard wheels w/o clutch and h-shifter? YES.
Is shifting RL h-shifter style but adapted to buttons (like it is now) realistic? Not for a single car in the world.
Is it the most practicalbe solution? Not by far.

So what would be THE reason to have it like it is now?

Which of the road cars are tiptronic in LFS?

Quote from Bandit77 :

I didn't clutch manually and I don't now. I just pushed the "up-paddle" and stayed on the throttle - like in any RL "tiptronic"-car.

The cars in LFS don't have a "tiptronic", they have H-gearboxes. Which means, you have to drive like a H-gearbox even if your controller is a bit different. The computer handles the clutch for you, if you want, but the rest is up to you.

Quote from Bandit77 :

... which is not nearly as smooth as RL-shifting, and most of all nonexistent in RL and just a LFS-only-hassle.



I didn't clutch manually and I don't now. I just pushed the "up-paddle" and stayed on the throttle - like in any RL "tiptronic"-car.



I've never driven such a car in real life so I can't really tell. Must be similar to a motorbike.
I was talking more about the roadcars anyway.

Well the FBMW is authentic, nothing wrong there so learn how to lift your foot off the throttle for an instant

They (the road cars) aren't even sequential manuals. They're manuals, but if you don't have the equipment to operate the clutch and the stick, LFS helps you out with that, it doesn't change the gearbox fitted to the car.
You can still flat-shift in the road cars anyway, you just burn the clutch out as you do so.

Quote from Bandit77 :

... which is not nearly as smooth as RL-shifting, and most of all nonexistent in RL and just a LFS-only-hassle.



I didn't clutch manually and I don't now. I just pushed the "up-paddle" and stayed on the throttle - like in any RL "tiptronic"-car.



I've never driven such a car in real life so I can't really tell. Must be similar to a motorbike.
I was talking more about the roadcars anyway.

So you never lift your foot off the throttle to change gear IRL?

As for tiptronic cars, thats as maybe, but are any of the cars in LFS tiptronic?, no.

In a vast majority of road cars you MUST lift your foot off the throttle.

I am glad flat-shifting has gone, it was wholey unrealistic, in a BIG way