Quote from Sticky-Micky :

LMAO @ people winging on about having a "hardcore mode" and wanting the game harder, and then winging on because its to dam hard to play anymore


muppets!!! LOL

This is not very nicely said

That's t'interwebs for you.

Everybody acts all though and macho but when push comes to shove they're all whiny nerds.

Quote from Fordman :

Has it got to real to actually enjoy?
Is gaming now taken to seriously?
What on earth happened to the "fun" element of LFS

The way I see it most of this has to do with the crowd you game with. If you game with like-minded, fun-seeking individuals who can't give a rat's ass about laptimes or winning as long as there are good "racing moments" and a few laughs and random thrills to be had then the fun is there and seriousness is pretty much out of the picture.

After the first few warm-up laps with the new patch and right after I started pushing my first reaction was "oookay - I definitely need to change some things in my setups." Then the first time I spun out with a single-seater and stalled it I was genuinely amused - the first time it happened in a race against a friend it really got me excited "oshitoshitoshit - turn on! turn on damn you!" same as when I closed a big gap to him and passed him because he had nerfed his clutch at a pitstop.

IMO it's all just added factors from what was missing. Playing x12 now feels sort of sterilized.

EDIT:
And trust me - if there ever was a casual gamer just playing for fun in LFS then that's yours truly - just look at my online stats.

Blimey And I was only expressing an opinion. Should of learnt the first time I tried this.

@Bob - Sarcasim was never your strongest point was it and guess what...WE HAVE BROADBAND AS WELL :ices_rofl

Anyway, back on topic.

For your "doubters" out there, I strive for the HARDCORE SIM as you so put it. I love the "realism" that this SIM ( darn't use the word game ) offers. Being told via a server of how I want to drive THIS sim is not good. Its my sim, I will drive it how I like, but again, thats my personal opinion.

I am not saying it's harder, as its not. It still drive's the same, the brake's are the same, it corners the same ( right setup ) it handles the same.

I must add, that after reading this forum, I did do 2hr OFFLINE testing, as I always think, learn before you go online, so its not a case of just jumping in and driving, I did give it a good bash. OK, you might say 2hr's is not enough, but for a hardcore sim racer like me, and considering I have been driving this sim since day dot like Dan said, 2hrs should be enough to make me think WOW this is awesome, but sad as it was, that was not the case.

So I thought, offline is boring, as this is not what LFS is all about, so I tried online, and guess what, same feeling.

I guess like everything else, all good things must come to a sad end, and my passion for LFS has just done that. I know what Scawen and Co are looking for and they are making a damn good job of it, and I wish them all the success they deserve.

Shaun, I hope you read this, although I suspect it will be lost in the vast posting mess of this forum.

Spend a few more days getting used to some of it. I don't know if you're clutching manually with a pedal, but if you are then tweak a few things to make heel and toeing easier (most pedals can be tweaked in some ways, spacing out brake pedals, adjusting pedal gaps etc).

If you are using manual clutch, then not a great deal has really changed, other than the need to blip and lift the throttle yourself. The new car is a blast (like the FOX, but even easier to drive), the new SO is actually pretty good.

Yes, the clutch is a weak point, but once you get a bit used to it you won't have too many problems - whole races can be managed.

If you're using a shifter, then things are now a bit harder, as keeping accuracy to change/engage gears is an extra thing to think about. The weak springs in the G25 shifter (for example) mean I often get into the wrong plane, and select 5th instead of 3rd. But I'll improve, and so will you. And I think I'm having a blast having to relearn aspects of sim driving.

Of course, we all play for different reasons, but I don't think it's vastly different to what it was before, but allows a bit more realism if your controllers (and/or budget) allow it, which makes you slower anyway (or if not, then more prone to mistakes).

Also, try not to judge too much until the patch is finalised, as Scawen may yet tweak values of things (clutch heat capacity for example), and turn what you think as a weak point into a background process you don't really notice (like tyre dirt)...

Don't give up quite so easily. LFS is still very much a pick up and play sim, yet it now caters a little more for the hardcore bunch should we want to. Leagues, where surely realism is even more appreciated, will be able to take on a whole new dimension too


Edit: After reading your last post, I think that it was unlikely to ever reignite your passion for LFS, without either a huge overhaul (which wouldn't be LFS), or something very personalised to you in some way (your car in it or something). It's a shame you feel like this, but I'm pleased to have known you, met you, and raced with you. I hope you manage to remain a part of LFS in the future, even if it's small. And if you ever want to go karting with some of us, then you know where we are!

Quote from tristancliffe :

Shaun, I hope you read this, although I suspect it will be lost in the vast posting mess of this forum.

Spend a few more days getting used to some of it. I don't know if you're clutching manually with a pedal, but if you are then tweak a few things to make heel and toeing easier (most pedals can be tweaked in some ways, spacing out brake pedals, adjusting pedal gaps etc).

If you are using manual clutch, then not a great deal has really changed, other than the need to blip and lift the throttle yourself. The new car is a blast (like the FOX, but even easier to drive), the new SO is actually pretty good.

Yes, the clutch is a weak point, but once you get a bit used to it you won't have too many problems - whole races can be managed.

If you're using a shifter, then things are now a bit harder, as keeping accuracy to change/engage gears is an extra thing to think about. The weak springs in the G25 shifter (for example) mean I often get into the wrong plane, and select 5th instead of 3rd. But I'll improve, and so will you. And I think I'm having a blast having to relearn aspects of sim driving.

Of course, we all play for different reasons, but I don't think it's vastly different to what it was before, but allows a bit more realism if your controllers (and/or budget) allow it, which makes you slower anyway (or if not, then more prone to mistakes).

Also, try not to judge too much until the patch is finalised, as Scawen may yet tweak values of things (clutch heat capacity for example), and turn what you think as a weak point into a background process you don't really notice (like tyre dirt)...

Don't give up quite so easily. LFS is still very much a pick up and play sim, yet it now caters a little more for the hardcore bunch should we want to. Leagues, where surely realism is even more appreciated, will be able to take on a whole new dimension too


Edit: After reading your last post, I think that it was unlikely to ever reignite your passion for LFS, without either a huge overhaul (which wouldn't be LFS), or something very personalised to you in some way (your car in it or something). It's a shame you feel like this, but I'm pleased to have known you, met you, and raced with you. I hope you manage to remain a part of LFS in the future, even if it's small. And if you ever want to go karting with some of us, then you know where we are!

Hay Tris

I know what you are saying m8. I use auto clutch and have always manually blipped ( I found this faster before the patch ) so no change there. I don't know what it is, there is a string of things, and as I said, I don't want to point to the patch as it isn't. You know me for tweaking Tris, and I tweaked until i was tweaked out, and still the gear changing seemed out of sink to what I was doing.

I will always ( always have ) keep a check on LFS, as I said, it's been a big part of me for 4/5yrs now, so I think I will wait until the final patch is released and see what happens.

I love change. I remember when Scavier introduced bump stomps and how people moaned then, but change is enevitable ( spelling ) in a always evolving sim.

I guess all in all, I just hoped that like before, been away, could pick up, find some friends and have a laugh, but it didn't happen. Found the friends, just didn't find the fun

Shaun, as I told you in messenger some week ago already about the same topic: You've been away and you look for your old habits and buddies. But those guys who were once there changed... Some of them quitted, others are only in leagueracing or so, as doing public for 4 years would be pretty much sad basically. As it would prove that LFS goes on, but you havent.

There are simple things which really prove you wrong: The online user numbers, the growing number of leagues and the growing numbers of posts/day in this forum here (and almost every local forum too).
LFS grows, and if you feel left behind, it's up to you, to catch the train. It's not the trains fault, if you hit the station too late
If you are as a hardcore simmer as you say you are, get back to league racing as you once did. OLFSL is still there e.g. and it's cool. Or go ctra, etm, stcc or or or. But that would need some commitment from your side. If you are looking for pickup only, then go to the ctra or cone dodgers (e.g.) and you'll actually find pretty good and watched pickup races. The drivers there are not the ones you raced with though (most of the time), as I explained you earlier on, they evolved.

LFS is on the right way. A slow one, but the right one! Stay here, and just keep racing (and dont interupt it again for a year or two, you bloody danicing bastard :P ).

Cheers

Quote from Vykos69 :

you bloody danicing bastard :P ).

And thats coming from the Dancing Queen Himself ( me go looks for that Video )

Finding good pickup races actually is quite bit harder than S1 days, all those insim apps many servers are using make it hard work to get to drive car you always have driven and then there is few empty servers without racing.

It was bit good when new patch came, there was many server running new car and it was easy to find good pickup racing too, was like old days.

Hopefully that won't end, maybe it is demo servers in future running FBM where we see good pickup racing again.

I would say that cruise servers and such have taken some of good old racing away, mostly I hear comments like "there is no servers with racers so I go to cruise" and that is seed of evil, IMO

As another long time racer I know what you are talking about Fordman, maybe it's nostalgia but LFS did have something in the S1 days that it is definitely lacking now. However I could see it coming even back then so I guess I've come to accept it. I still kinda remember just how totally odd I found it the first time someone requested forced cockpit view for LFS and I've been against it ever since (and probably overstepped the line a touch voicing my opinion when it was introduced). Talk about whining though, people have been whining for that one for years and years.

Personally though I feel this is one of the best patches we've had with LFS for the major physics improvements. Being a long time clutch user I guess I have a different point of view, whilst I accepted it I did find it a bit annoying that people could drive road cars like they were a formula1 car, flatshifting and shifting gears almost instantaneously. Now I feel like the racing in LFS has improved due to the more realistic technique that's required which has added a new very important dynamic to the racing.

So while I do think some of these things do remove that pick up and play element that was so good in S1 I think many of them have definitely improved LFS. I just wish the devs would stick to the improvements that increase realism in a meaningful way and forget those that are trivial and inconsequential like fcv and removing digital speedos. These things do help in losing this fun factor in my opinion and for no discernable benefit to the game as a whole (omg did I just call LFS a game? Surely I jest?).

Quote from Fordman :

I guess like everything else, all good things must come to a sad end, and my passion for LFS has just done that. I know what Scawen and Co are looking for and they are making a damn good job of it, and I wish them all the success they deserve.

I guess its time to go see the real world now, but I'll definately sit at my computer all day playing this sim till I cant bear to sit any more, then sit back down and play some more, but things change.

It seems your oppinion of something you migt have liked very much has changed, not caused by its advancements(IMO), but that your expectation of what LFS should bring you has changed. Specially when we set aside the old habits of sitting at our computers, setting up the old wheels, and checking out the connection list, for a break from the sim, that are needed some times, to go "spit on some stuff" (or what ever we might do with our lives). Comming back to from life to lfs is sometimes depressing.

Quote from legoflamb :

I guess its time to go see the real world now, but I'll definately sit at my computer all day playing this sim till I cant bear to sit any more, then sit back down and play some more, but things change.

It seems your oppinion of something you migt have liked very much has changed, not caused by its advancements(IMO), but that your expectation of what LFS should bring you has changed. Specially when we set aside the old habits of sitting at our computers, setting up the old wheels, and checking out the connection list, for a break from the sim, that are needed some times, to go "spit on some stuff" (or what ever we might do with our lives). Comming back to from life to lfs is sometimes depressing.

+1

I have been away, good part of S2 era, just remembered how it became bit of boring little after S2 release and that I was then quite some time away, doing other things

Quote from JTbo :

I have been away, good part of S2 era, just remembered how it became bit of boring little after S2 release and that I was then quite some time away, doing other things

Off Topic:
WOW that was a fast response, I just submited that.

But thats what just happened to me befor this patch came out, now I cant get enough again.

might i remind you all that when you first started lfs, whenever it was you all told yourself the cars were too hard to drive but we slowly got into it and the xrt become one of the great cars, the clutch will continue to be a major talking point on this server but i have a feeling it will under go a couple of tweaks before patch y


mark my words

Quote from tailing :

removing digital speedos.

DOH!!!! Thats why I could not find it last night :ices_rofl

I must read the "improvements / changes" section of the patch forum HAHA

At the end of the day, we can all agree to disagree or beg to differ. Like Vykos said, maybe I have just missed the train Better than missing the boat I suppose

First drive I spun at Blackwood back straight (was too harsh with controls and panic braked) with XFG and thought WOW finally sim with some realism, cars did act much more naturally than anything back then, now there are some that get close, but I still think LFS has better car handling and specially racing so there is no real competitor for my point of view.

Edit:
At least you will not drown, when missing the train Fordy

Since I am a Single Seater man ( and I don't know why, I just love the racing ) I don't know anything about the shifting problem, so I'm going to try it out

Quote from Fordman :

Before people shout off about moaning and whining I am here to express my personal opinion about the new patch and how LFS has developed during the last 5-6 yrs.

I know the devs are looking for "uba realistic" but come on, where has the fun gone from LFS.

I started in 2002 with LFS, and slowly, ok, it has progressed, but its progression has made it fun. You can still pick up race's and also enter leagues if you wish, but now? what has happened to the "old school of LFS"

Has it got to real to actually enjoy?
Is gaming now taken to seriously?
What on earth happened to the "fun" element of LFS

This new clutch thing? what is that all about. I have never seen a car, any car change gear so slow, ( whether manual clutch, auto clutch, manual blip. ) Jesus I can change gear faster in my Ford Focus 1.8 petrol, its wrong.

I have been out of the LFS loop for a couple of months now, and thought, lets try again, and tbh i am seriously dissapointed.

I am not moaning or whining, as the devs now have a different insight as to what they want to acheive, but something is now seriously amiss as to what it used to be.

All I am saying is, LFS is no longer a pickup, like it, and buy it game, it's gotten over serious.

I hope I don't seem to be flaming, as I am not, its my personal opinion, and i know it doesn't stand for much but everybody has a voice.

LFS used to be fun, enjoyable, exciting, left you feeling wanting more, now....I feel none of the above which is a damn shame, as LFS was my life

Very Sad S2 potential S3 paid for owner

Fordman

so man whats your problem with the clutch?!

if you think the clutch is too slow, just put the key-control-rate from 2 or 4 to 10 and the clutch is fast as in Patch V/W/X,
so what?!

Quote from Dillyracer :

Since I am a Single Seater man ( and I don't know why, I just love the racing ) I don't know anything about the shifting problem, so I'm going to try it out

No problems here, but I'm using a G25.

Quote from Fordman :

I remember when Scavier introduced bump stomps and how people moaned then...

Heh, I think that keeps things in perspective nicely. I can only imagine as that was a little before my time, but basically people get used to exploiting a simplification and then moan when they have to relearn things properly.

Also note that new drivers will (almost) never complain about something that was fixed before they started, it's only the people that got used to it being wrong. So if that isn't a good reason for everyone to shut up, I don't know what is.

But people will always complain about change, I don't know maybe it is hard coded to human AI 1.0 or something, but when ever there is change people complain, same IRL too.

Those who are able to adjust and look changes with open mind, are ones that will have rich life and happiness, also those can enjoy more for example from LFS which is evolving product that will have many changes to come

But you have to remember that you shouldn't blindly look at all chages

Some changes are good but some need a bit work to become better than initally planned to be. You can't accept all changes with: "OMG this roxx" if they are not that.

Many people are playing this game and there will always be different opinions about it's updates so you can't just say shup up when you like them and they don't

Quote from Californian :

But you have to remember that you shouldn't blindly look at all chages

Some changes are good but some need a bit work to become better than initally planned to be. You can't accept all changes with: "OMG this roxx" if they are not that.

Many people are playing this game and there will always be different opinions about it's updates so you can't just say shup up when you like them and they don't

Except the majority playing LFS online are demo users, who haven't paid and have no say. Furthermore, LFS is Scavier's, to do with it as They see fit. If you like it, great! But if you can no longer find enjoyment out of it, sorry, but whining about it here will not do any good.

While most can agree, LFS does seem to meander at the will of the devs, it still remains unrivaled in terms of developer involvment and interaction.

Personally, I'm at a loss to understand how this patch killed the fun of online pickup racing. I can't understand how more fully replicating the whole experience of driving and racing is anything less than improving LFS.

Quote from srdsprinter :

Personally, I'm at a loss to understand how this patch killed the fun of online pickup racing. I can't understand how more fully replicating the whole experience of driving and racing is anything less than improving LFS.

It was said earlier that it is not this patch

I'ts you. I'm just as entertained and slow as i was before with the new patch I allready got used to lifting the gas while shifting, it's not that hard and i noticed it's often enough when you just lift a little.