Quote from Starblue :

Replay of the FZ5 bug attached

Thatll be the traction control going mad, try turning it off, should get better resuts.

This is not a "LFS Request", but a "request of LFS"

Sorry if this is the wrong place to request something.

Could someone post the X34 patch? I'm a collector (as well as the majority, I hope ) and was at work yesterday afternoon.

Thanks id advance!

Quote from m3marte :

Could someone post the X34 patch? I'm a collector (as well as the majority, I hope ) and was at work yesterday afternoon.

Doesn't look like it made it to the rest of the mirrors (or mine at least)

Hello.

This is a really nice patch, and I would like to make one small comment.

Having to turn the engine off, and then back on, after an engine stall is a clever feature. However this is not required when the fuel runs out, as the engine is automatically turned off. That is, after I run out of fuel and come to a stop, I need only press the ignition button once to [attempt to] turn the engine back on, not twice as in the case of a stall.

How so?

Quote from df_limitless :

Hello.

This is a really nice patch, and I would like to make one small comment.

Having to turn the engine off, and then back on, after an engine stall is a clever feature. However this is not required when the fuel runs out, as the engine is automatically turned off. That is, after I run out of fuel and come to a stop, I need only press the ignition button once to [attempt to] turn the engine back on, not twice as in the case of a stall.

You need to think about car key in real car here, when engine stalls key is still in ignition position, while if engine is turned off it is in off position.

When fuel runs out I believe key is turned to off automatically if case is such as you describe (haven't tested it yet), but anyway after some time not driving it is turned to off to exclude car from physics calculations.

X36? Scawen just keeps churning them out! He's a patch machine!

Quote from JTbo :

You need to think about car key in real car here, when engine stalls key is still in ignition position, while if engine is turned off it is in off position.

When fuel runs out I believe key is turned to off automatically if case is such as you describe (haven't tested it yet), but anyway after some time not driving it is turned to off to exclude car from physics calculations.

If you run out of fuel in real life, the ignition stays on.

GO! GO! GO! ignition cut for XFR/UFR. :static:

Yep tristancliffe nailed the point I was trying to make. In real life your ignition stays on, but in LFS it automatically turns it off as soon as you run out of fuel.

Aha, that makes more sense now. I've never run out of fuel so I can't comment on the issue.

Clutch restored to X33, and here I thought we where making progress. I thought the reducing of 25% would be perfect. With the clutch as is your going to have to pick moments during a race (endurance style) to slow down and the let the clutch cool and slowing down never has been in my vocabulary.

Quote from Riders Motion :

Okay everyone can stop to cry now, speedos we're updated...

Looks perfect.. Perfect compromise to see your speed at a glance.

Quote from BigTime :

With the clutch as is your going to have to pick moments during a race (endurance style) to slow down and the let the clutch cool and slowing down never has been in my vocabulary.

No you don't, just don't heat the clutch in the first place and it will last forever (no flatshifting and stuff).

Quote from BigTime :

Clutch restored to X33, and here I thought we where making progress. I thought the reducing of 25% would be perfect. With the clutch as is your going to have to pick moments during a race (endurance style) to slow down and the let the clutch cool and slowing down never has been in my vocabulary.

Allthough it clutch heat was restored to X33 value clutch's strenght was changed

I've found this strange thing while running an AI race.

Track: AS GP
Car: raceabout

1) I enter garage, set skin, setup, fuel level, etc
2) I select add AI several times for adding oter AI cars
3) when i start race, fuel level is set to default, not to the fuel leveli've set in garage
4) if I modify a car fuel level, then i select anoter car and came back to the previous modified one, it's back to the original fuel level, not the one i've set before.

Not tested any other track/car combos, don't know if it's really a bug or i've done something wrong.

Quote from Bladerunner :

The point is, a RACING car (whether it be formula, touring, or rally...FFS..even STREET racers!!!) have UPGRADED HEAVY DUTY CLUTCHES that can take a bit more abuse than a standard road car.
If you take a REAL Caterham/Lotus 7/Whatever onto a track, no matter HOW hard you push it (UNLESS you 'ride' the clutch for the entire distance!), you would expect the clutch to last a bit more than 5 laps before it fried!!!!

Just to clarify, I am not whinging personally, but it is an obvious glitch..it doesn't worry me if it is improved or not..in fact it gives ME (and all other G25 users) a definate advantage...there is no way on this planet that I should be faster over 5 laps than Freeliner and Sir.Pingo.

10 laps or so in the LX6 at Chicane Course, laps 1-5 shifted normaly, 6-9 flatshifts, 10 and 11 random shifts. 1-5 the clutch heats up a little but no more than maybe 30-50% of the orange heat range, laps 6-9 near the limit but never red except for a fraction of a second on (IIRC) lap 9, and on one lap after lap 10 (11 or 12 or something), I do one lap or so with normal shifts, and the temperature cuts in half, back down to normal values...
So that squad of guys you mentioned somehow did something worse than flatshift every shift for 5 laps... unless the LX4 is a totaly different story.
It's still proof that whatever flaw there is in the clutch temp. model, it's less significant than 5 laps of flatshifts' worth.

edit - I don't have time to read 10+ pages.. Disregard this post if the heat problem was fixed sometime between the post I quoted and mine.. oops. The replay was made with X36.

I'll try it out in a min!

Quote from BigTime :

Clutch restored to X33, and here I thought we where making progress. I thought the reducing of 25% would be perfect. With the clutch as is your going to have to pick moments during a race (endurance style) to slow down and the let the clutch cool and slowing down never has been in my vocabulary.

Have you even tried the xfg, lx6 or any other car that has recieved stronger clutches in x36

They seem near on indistructable to me now so should be no problem for endurance racing you would have to really mess up more than once to get in trouble

Quote from Glenn67 :

Have you even tried the xfg, lx6 or any other car that has recieved stronger clutches in x36

They seem near on indistructable to me now so should be no problem for endurance racing you would have to really mess up more than once to get in trouble

Spinning at 3rd and keeping throttle floored while auto clutch engages ignoring that completely burns clutch, nothing else can do it in XRG at least.

So flatshifting is not punished now in all cars, but what is desired really?

Stopping all flatshifting except few flatshifts here and there, or make sure all cars can finish races on tracks where they are meant to be raced on?
Something between middle would be perhaps situation that most could live with, however time is limited and this issue has taken lot of time already.

I'm thinking here that maybe we can live a bit longer with flatshifting problem until new engine and clutch models are made as long as cars are actually raceable?

Quote from ITA-Diablo :

I've found this strange thing while running an AI race.

Track: AS GP
Car: raceabout

1) I enter garage, set skin, setup, fuel level, etc
2) I select add AI several times for adding oter AI cars
3) when i start race, fuel level is set to default, not to the fuel leveli've set in garage
4) if I modify a car fuel level, then i select anoter car and came back to the previous modified one, it's back to the original fuel level, not the one i've set before.

Not tested any other track/car combos, don't know if it's really a bug or i've done something wrong.

That's how it's supposed to work. Fuel level is not tied to car setup and never has been (not even for when you are driving). The AI select the amount of fuel that they need given the car they're driving, the track they're on, and the number of laps.

Quote from Breizh :

...

I did a similar test with the XRT on BL1. I flatshifted the whole way just to see how long it would take to burn a clutch out. It hit red at the start of lap 5 I think, I don't recall exactly. I wasn't consistent or trying to be but I can safely say that I could just notice a difference in speed from a 'just red clutch' and I was looking for the difference. If i wasn't looking for the speed loss then I wouldn't have noticed it that quickly. That was on X32 I think.

Just tried the same with the FZR at BL1 in X36. Flatshifting the whole time turned my clutch red just before the 1st split of lap 4. It then fluctuated between red and orange between shifts and was firmly red by around split 2 of lap 4, firmly meaning it stayed red not that the bar had gone up loads or anything. I imagine it would have got worse if I kept going but as far as I'm concerned at least 3 laps of being ultra abusive on the clutch is more than enough leeway considering that modulating the quick pedal a bit keeps the clutch all the way down at 1 bar of orange.

The only reliable method of clutch destruction (ok overheating being as it isn't actually destroyed) that I've discovered is being in far too high a gear for your speed. Under normal racing the current clutches are more than strong enough.

As for whether or not this level of durability is realistic I have no idea, but I guess that racing teams aren't going to go out of their way to make clutches much stronger than they need to be and the current ones in LFS seem more than strong enough.

Am I missing something with this clutch overheating thing? I just can't see it being an issue during a race if you shift properly unless you have some sort of incident/make a mistake.

Quote from Cue-Ball :

That's how it's supposed to work. Fuel level is not tied to car setup and never has been (not even for when you are driving). The AI select the amount of fuel that they need given the car they're driving, the track they're on, and the number of laps.

But wouldnt it be nice - when driving against a fleet of AI drivers to have them on different pit stratergies, Why would all teams choose to pit on lap 25 of a 50 lap race? for example.

I understand the orgional issue - Not every driver in every race would want to do that, exactly what the other guys does. Especially 2 guys in the same team - they would want different pit stop windows.

I think at this point - its fair to suggest that maybe we should be able to set the fuel level on AI cars, if desired.

Funny thing tho - they can decide how much fuel they need - yet they cant drive around a corner with out taking me out on the guy on there inside/outside.

Im really enjoying this testing phase - and Im well looking forward to AI developments. Cracking job.

Quote from Widdowmaker :

But wouldnt it be nice - when driving against a fleet of AI drivers to have them on different pit stratergies, Why would all teams choose to pit on lap 25 of a 50 lap race? for example.

In most non-endurance races, teams pit when a full course caution comes out. But since LFS doesn't have full course cautions, and since AI can't possibly know about them, we can't currently handle this case. Best case solution here is that if a car causes a yellow flag for more than, say, 20 seconds (assuming reset is disabled), LFS issues a full course caution for 1-2 laps and forces that car to spectate.

Quote :

I understand the orgional issue - Not every driver in every race would want to do that, exactly what the other guys does. Especially 2 guys in the same team - they would want different pit stop windows.

I think this is more a problem with the basics of the way LFS works than it is a problem of the AI. Every track in LFS has half as many pit boxes as it does garages. The AI aren't aware of this limitation, and neither are normal players. It's impossible for everyone on a full server to pit at the same time, and since people are assigned stalls as they join you don't even know who your "teammate" is. This makes it virtually impossible for pit sharing to work. We need some sort of way to assign people to certain pit areas and make those areas clearly visible so that drivers know which pit is theirs. Then, the AI need to be made aware of this as well.

Quote :

I think at this point - its fair to suggest that maybe we should be able to set the fuel level on AI cars, if desired.

I think that's a hacky and poor workaround. Right now the AI are great at determining the amount of fuel they need, how many stints they need to run, etc. I sure as heck don't want to have to assign every single AI a specific fuel level just to make them pit more "randomly". Especially if Scawen could do the same thing with a relatively straight forward logic fix.

What we really need is: Full course cautions, AI that are aware they may be sharing a pit box with another car (AI or human), and some sort of way for people to get assigned stalls/pits and be able to tell which one they are assigned to. And the AI being more aware of human drivers wouldn't hurt either, but Scawen said he's working on that.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=405477#post405477
is that planned for Y?
it seems not... but that would not be too long to change, would it?