AI drivers in BL2 driving LX4 are spinning near end of 2nd gravel section, they do that in every lap and reason is that they drive inside to corner where is large bumps and same time they turn left so they turn 180 degrees in air and land to opposite wall.

When there was other AI cars (one of each car type allowed) there, they drove that place properly, but if LX4 was spun there they tend to ram against poor fella with full speed.

And indeed, pitting problem of AI is still there, they make entry too late and violently, loosing control partly or completely, also they ram to each other while trying to get into same pitbox.

It seems to be really troublesome this BL2, maybe fixing all issues with it are going to take bit too much time from other bug fixing?

Hi,

did some testing at Westhill with PRO AI:

X35: UFR & XFR, 12 cars, 10 laps, forced pitstop, "use player setup" off
--> all UFRs get a DT as they enter pits. But they are allways too fast, so they get a DT forever.
Pitting itself is a mess (All cars at same time in the pits). Some crash in the car in front of them. Don't know if they want to pit at the same place (yellow pit marking) or if they want to pit one place later but steer too early to the left side.

X36: FBM, 12 cars, 10 laps, forced pitstop, "use player setup" off
--> most of the cars get a DT when entering pits --> DT forever --> disqualified after race.
Pitting itself the same mess. Some crash into other cars. A crashed car got pushed out of the pits by another. The pushed AI was on full throttle AND half on the brake --> clutch was overheating. After the car behind passed the pushed car the AI wanted to drive normal but wasn't aware of the overheated clutch --> AI burned clutch totally.
Other (4 or 5) AIs didn't get refueled. They were out of fuel after a half lap after pitting --> out of race

X35: big GTRs (mixed), 12 cars, 10 laps, .... like above
--> NO DT but they braked unhumanly perfect into the pits
After Race some of the cars didn't turn into their pitstalls(?). Oddly they turned left to enter the stall but suddenly turned right again and drove through the pitlane and turned off the engine a few meters after the pits.



Hope you understand my english

A feature request, no bug reports in this post

One easy (some will not like this) way to make the AIs faster could be to make the AI cars lighter and more powerful, kinda like reversed handicaps. This would solve some issues with the AI drivers:
- slow through corners, not able to maintain speed through apex
- too late on full throttle on corner exit (slow on straight)
- brake too early

Just for clarification I'd like to add that what I'm proposing is that the cars the AIs are driving would be made lighter and more powerful than the normal cars. Maybe the actual weight/power ratio could be adjusted by the AI skill levels.


Why to make the AIs' cars faster instead of handicapping yourself?

Firstly, it is easy to implement (I guess) and would instantly make AI drivers faster and maybe this would leave more time for our hard-working coder to focus on their behaviour.

Secondly, you can use the same setup and same driving techniques (braking points etc.) as if you were practising for a league race against "fast targets". And most importantly you would be practising with a car that is exactly the same as the car you will use in the actual race.

Third. Racing with AIs would be more challenging and fun, not just an overtaking practise with idiots (sorry ). On some tracks the AI are indeed quick (SO7 with FBM) but with roarcars they are really slow.


Sorry to bump this here but... it could work...?

Not trying to offend, but that would be really dumb thing to do. It would be not LFS'ish at all One of the best things about AI in LFS is that they have to drive in the same physics engine, using the same cars and influence the car through same controls as human player. In most(all?) other sims/games AI is artificially "driving" in separate(simplified) physics model with handicapped, or simply fatser cars - depends on the difficulty setting.

What is the point in AI really? To give a possibility to race against opponents offline. The key point in racing is equal conditions. What would happen if noobs on online servers have started demanding lightened and more powerful cars because they are slower... sounds like complete nonsense, doesn't it ?

If you really want to make races against AI harder for yourself - then use existing handicaps options for your car - no need to sacrifice LFS philosophy and realism for that

I don't think this has been reported yet.

I was racing with 5 AI in X36 on SO Classic Reverse for 6 laps (all XFG). It doesn't look like the AI takes bump into account that they lose control at the chichane. All AI cannot find a way to go back to their line and end up burning their clutch at the end of the chichane (all 5 AI lined up nicely). This is highly repeatable.

The lines that the AI use, when the get on the power, etc. can be modified by Scawen. Rather than "boosting" their cars we should address their lines and throttling.

Can you be specific about which track/car combos the AI are slow on? I ran against some AI in the LX4 on Blackwood the other night and had one hell of a time just keeping up with the Quick level. The Pro level guys left me in the dust.

I also tried the normal direction and they don't know how to exit the chichane. They just ram the wall on their own. After race ends, they know how to get back to pits, but two AI don't know their way in the pits and cause two of them just exit the pit and just stayed there.

Quote from Cue-Ball :

The lines that the AI use, when the get on the power, etc. can be modified by Scawen. Rather than "boosting" their cars we should address their lines and throttling.

As I implied, it would be just a short fix to get them competitive. I know it is agains the spirit of LFS but it could save some time in-between

Quote from Cue-Ball :

Can you be specific about which track/car combos the AI are slow on? I ran against some AI in the LX4 on Blackwood the other night and had one hell of a time just keeping up with the Quick level. The Pro level guys left me in the dust.

Let's just say that I haven't yet found a combo where they are competitive (oyher than SO7r/FBM). I'll try that BL1/LX4 next along with some other lx4 combos

Sorry for posting this stuff here. I know this thread is for bug reports only but... *excuse*

I think it doesn't really make any sense reporting all these AI issues. It is IMO pretty clear that while they're massively improved speed wise (which was afaik the focus of the current AI improvements), they're far from having good racecraft or being raceable in the first place.

All these things will not be fixed in patch Y but afterwards, it's not like Scawen said he'll stop working on the AI as soon as Y is out.

I have just had something weird happen to me. I started a race sp South City Chicane route only with AIs. I was spectating and having a bit of fun watching them. Then on lap 3 on the first corner AI car number 10 (AI 10) crashed and got stuck facing the wall. It then just kept flooring the throttle until it blew the two rear tyres. It was also hit by another AI approaching car. But this wasn't the weird bit yet, the ai then slowly managed to get going after being hit a few more times by other ai opponents. It slowly made its way down the long straight and towards the double right handed corners where again it spun due to the deflated rear tyres. The rest of the pack was coming to that section with AI 10 still being all over the place. The weird thing was that the other AI cars did slow down but then they suddenly lost grip at the rear and span out. Around half of the field span out at the same spot with the same problem , sudden loss of rear grip? could this have been the setup? I noticed their rear tyres were hot but to have them nearly all spin out? hmm

probably just the ai not being finished like AndroidXP says.

I have attached the replay. Watch car AI 10 and it all starts happening start of lap3, first corner and then wait until he goes past the long straight.

This doesn't fix all problems of course but there are quite a few updates in X37 which help them crash less.

AI :

AI drive more slowly to deal with damaged car
Improved decisions to make pit stop for damage repair
Improved AI speed and fuel estimates on rallycross tracks
Mid race join AI consider lead car laps for must pit rule
Improved pit stop box decisions to reduce pit lane mayhem
FIX : AI driving too fast into Oval / Westhill pit lanes
FIX : AI crashed entering Blackwood rallycross pit lane
FIX : AI could keep driving in pit stop state if knocked

just sum improvement in this bugtest topic: ai dont know flags yet right? i had the problem that i had a full field of ai and some of them got blue flags for 30 minutes long but they did not move away... so just a impro, maybe there could be some like " if ai-car.gotblueflagged reached limit then p_sg for that ai-car" or something like this would solve the problem for the moment couz ai would enter the pits next lap and blue flag is over ...

RB4 @ SO6R try to cut at entry of 'bus stop' which results them hitting the wall, but this seem to be happening only with cold tires.

Do they still learn? Might be something they would be able to learn

This with x37

WE1 with XRTs, qualify, 20minutes. The AI cars do their laps and pit for more fuel. But if they see that their pitbox is already taken (maybe other ai has spinned on or going over the spot as the Ai checks if the said spot is free) they don't pit and continue straight out from the pits. As a result they run out of fuel in T1 () and cause massive accident because those who got fuel drive into the stopped cars.

EDIT: X37

Strange because they shouldn't even stop for fuel in qualifying, and they certainly don't check to see if a pit box is free! Actually they totally ignore all other cars in the pit lane.

I'll run a test but the only explanation I can think of at the moment is they are not actually pitting for fuel, but in fact they are trying to park, and are getting knocked out when trying to park. How many AI did you run for this test?

I tested AI at Blackwood RallyX with XRGs on patch X37, i set pit stop required and 2 laps. Some of those cars were a little bit damaged so they were longer time in the pit. The car (AI 10) which drove out of the pit earlier crashed into the car still standing in the pits. Watch the attachment.

Quote from Scawen :

Strange because they shouldn't even stop for fuel in qualifying, and they certainly don't check to see if a pit box is free! Actually they totally ignore all other cars in the pit lane.

I'll run a test but the only explanation I can think of at the moment is they are not actually pitting for fuel, but in fact they are trying to park, and are getting knocked out when trying to park. How many AI did you run for this test?

I've done this few times with different amounts of AI, from 10 to max. Always the same

I'll look for replay next

EDIT: that's right. I'll upload the file to some place, the files is too large (7mb)

The file: http://www.bestsharing.com/files/ugMn9u382849/WE1.spr.html

Although it should be easy to reproduce. Just put enough AIs to qualify and watch.

This may well have been reported before (apologies if it has), but the AI seem to be having some trouble entering the pitlane on SO5. I'm using X37, and the AI were all using XRRs (called Sausage, Gas Pipe and Girtle...bit of a Worms Armageddeon influence there, hehe). They all went to pit on lap 4, and missed the pit entry lane, bouncing off and then trying to drive through the wall into it...burning out their clutches. They also kept hitting the wall opposite the sharp hairpin, repeatedly. I've attached a replay.
Again, sorry if this had already been reported. Thanks for X37 too..should help a lot on the other tracks.

AI cars seem to have some difficulties with LX4 at BL2 also, that last s-curve on 2nd gravel area. They hit wall left side of road and jump from bump spinning so they end up to wall left on road.

I did run with about 10 AI cars 15 lap race and only 1 did finish as other went upside down on that corner, there was bit of bad luck too, but they have trouble to handle that place.

Then winner managed to flip his car to side on out lap after race.

One AI car was flipped back to wheels, but as he had shut down engine he never started it again.

I'm thinking Scawen soon removes BL2 all together as there has been so many problems

Quote from Hyperactive :

I've done this few times with different amounts of AI, from 10 to max. Always the same

I'll look for replay next

EDIT: that's right. I'll upload the file to some place, the files is too large (7mb)

OK I know what this is, it's the same thing at AS Cadet, when they are trying to park.

Because when they want to park they don't consider their stopping point until they are in the speed limit zone, and by then it's basically too late.

I'll try and do something about this...

Quote from Scawen :

OK I know what this is, it's the same thing at AS Cadet, when they are trying to park.

Because when they want to park they don't consider their stopping point until they are in the speed limit zone, and by then it's basically too late.

I'll try and do something about this...

For me it looks like AI could use some sort of look ahead feature (looking up to 200m ahead) as now they seem to be looking 10 meters ahead, but that might be bit hard to do CPU efficiently as I believe it would be needed to add one another AI calculations routine for that to work, but you are genius here, I believe you have better ideas how to do it

forgive me if im too lazy to read the entire thread but i've got a suggestion and a erm...little bug i guess. The suggestion would be to decide somewhere (let it be the F12 page for instance) how often the ai should do a qualify run. Right now they do their 3 laps + the 4th lap to pit in and thats it. You need to spectate them and let them rejoin again (as you know already). The bug i have noticed is when (track was so6 (love it)) when the ai is leaving the tunnel going on the start/ finish straight and when another car is leaving the pits or driving in the pitlane, it is trying to avoid it for some reason .

Quote from JTbo :

For me it looks like AI could use some sort of look ahead feature (looking up to 200m ahead) as now they seem to be looking 10 meters ahead, but that might be bit hard to do CPU efficiently as I believe it would be needed to add one another AI calculations routine for that to work, but you are genius here, I believe you have better ideas how to do it

No, they deliberately did not look ahead in that case, that code was to fix AI going mad in loop back pit paths - entry to AS Cadet REV for example.

But I've done a fix and will prepare the update.

So- updating the path of an AI car around a circuit so it doesn't crash every single time: Oh, let's say Chicane Route Reversed, and let's say LX6 (although I could pick plenty more), and more specifically, the chicane - is that a big job that could not be done for any of the test patches? Or does scawen have me on block? Just curious, I'm a little surprised my posts haven't even been acknowledged.