Hi Sinbad. I put your bug report as a note on my sheet, which I do for all reported bugs, usually without acknowledgement. Then I try to get round to it when possible.

But we are at that time now where I can say that those individual issues won't be fixed for Patch Y. It is an extremely difficult problem to solve. The AI paths (knw files) are all generated, we don't have any editing facilities for them.

The solution to the issues you reported (crashing into walls in the tight section at South City, and all other failures to follow their racing line correctly) is to improve the AI's understanding of bumpy road surfaces and so on, probably by a more careful analysis of the road surface between path nodes and taking into account their suspension hardness as well which they currently ignore in their current slightly crude bump analysys. These are general updates which will make AI better and driving and better at generating paths. I've been thinking about this quite often but haven't solved it yet, it sounds like a few days of work to get it right.

The only blanket way to solve all such issues at the moment would be to make the AI take more care everywhere, then they'd just be slow basically. While there is still inaccuracy in their understanding of how fast they can go in any particular place, it's better to have a few tracks where they wipe out, rather than being slow across the board.

Still getting crazy pitting in bl2, X38 and a mixed grid

I always thought that AI could generate there own path? They learn.. (okay they do, but read on)

I tried something out.. Placed a barrier JUST on their racing line in a (slow) corner, it tipped their back and they sometimes spun out, some AI could correct it.. Kept them going for around 50 laps but they didn't learn that driving 'there' isn't best practice..

Am i asking too much from the AI path learning?

Thankyou for the response. It's interesting because they deal with it properly in some cars, even ones which are more upset by bumps like the single seaters, but it looks, to me, like the path for those cars which crash repeatedly is in fact closer to the barrier. See pictures, set it so you can quickly go from one to the other and back.
Maybe they don't stick to the line perfectly - they miss the barrier by a whisker in the slow down lap, but why is the generated line so aggressive and close for some cars? It's like some cars are simply more intelligent at creating their path than others.

Quote from ussbeethoven :

That's strange, because placing barriers in corners where AI cars run off road worked in pre-X30. I did that for example in the last turn of KY Long Rev and they changed their path more or less (however, didn't helped continously and everytime) in FZ5 et cetera.

Offroad isn't on there path I think, it's pretty normal they learn to stay on their path (and the road?)

Not trying to argue, just checking

Quote from sinbad :

Thankyou for the response. It's interesting because they deal with it properly in some cars, even ones which are more upset by bumps like the single seaters, but it looks, to me, like the path for those cars which crash repeatedly is in fact closer to the barrier. See pictures.
Maybe they don't stick to the line perfectly - they miss the barrier by a whisker in the slow down lap, but why is the generated line so aggressive and close for some cars? It's like some cars are simply more intelligent at creating their path than others.

i think it has alot to do with the suspension in combination with brake behaviour and weight transfer. For instance, i gave my ai the road going setup from bob smith for the uf1 and they where simple unable to take some turns properly because of the things mentioned above. The compensation of several factors at one time is the issue i guess.

Edit: another thing would be the line itself. Scawen said its been generated and i just take ky1 as an example: the line itself is well, pretty much crap actually for the faster cars but for the slower cars, lets say ufr and xfr its pretty much perfect. If you then take the fxo or rac for example it doesnt really fit anymore. So in the end, its a line not for every car individually but a general line (at every track i assume) which also makes things a bit more complicated for them ai.

Quote from 510N3D :

i think it has alot to do with the suspension in combination with brake behaviour and weight transfer. For instance, i gave my ai the road going setup from bob smith for the uf1 and they where simple unable to take some turns properly because of the things mentioned above. The compensation of several factors at one time is the issue i guess.

That would explain their failure to stick to the line properly, but doesn't shed light on why cars that might struggle with those things would generate a path which, even if they were almost perfectly following it, would still result in a crash.
r.e your edit, look at my attached files (closely). They do have different lines.

Quote from sinbad :

That would explain their failure to stick to the line properly, but doesn't shed light on why cars that might struggle with those things would generate a path which, even if they were almost perfectly following it, would still result in a crash.
r.e your edit, look at my attached files (closely). They do have different lines.

yes they do, resulting out of a couple of factors, some of them mentioned in my previous reply. I guess their ability to adapt is pretty much limited right now. Also with rather hardcore settings inside the setup this could be a reason for this. For example, asymetric camber (and/or tire preasure) settings. Or another example at so6, AI @ fo8 and they had the bad habit to shift down to second gear in this area which is also on you picture (but comming from the other side) which then forces them to lift off even more and correct the line again. When i altered the transmission they sticked with the correct gear and where even faster.

AI drivers cannot park in pits of Fern Bay Gold after the race, because they crash each other at pitlane so they go for another lap and they stop in T1

Quote from ussbeethoven :

Edit: Some drivers developed a different path on KY Ring, too. I had some TBO drivers which took the inside line after last corner because of beeing rear-ended by GTR quite often. Can't provide screenshot from my X10-install this time as I'm out of unlocks for this month (new hardware).

Yeah, in pre-X30 patch level the AI had separate .knw files which they updated - now that doesn't seem to be the case - or atleast I don't see them maintaining some sort of state on file. Which is sort of sad because I had gotten fond of some of the quirks a few of my trained AI drivers had developed.

Quote from Ondrejko :

AI drivers cannot park in pits of Fern Bay Gold after the race, because they crash each other at pitlane so they go for another lap and they stop in T1

That happens on pretty much every single track with every single car. The AI are pretty decent out on the track, but their behavior for pitting and stopping after the race leaves something to be desired. I'm sure it's on Scawen's to-do list, but dunno if we'll see it fixed for Y.

Would be awesome if the AI could still learn. It would help a lot, and it maybe would be competative at some way.
We`ll just have to wait and see what Scawen makes out of it

If the AI gets on the grass in the BF1 they still use too much throttle. They are spinning for a lot of time (>5 minutes) unless they are randomly hit by another car.

Yesterday i tried a thing. I make a race with 20 drivers, with the 20 diferents cars, in Fern Bay Gold Reversed. In order 1st UF1000 and last BF1, from slower to faster

If you want to see a lot of bugs and inconsistencies, try to do that.

-All the cars has the same Race line, only change the points to brake or acceleration. And this is incorrect, a BF1 can't has to do the same that a UF1000 or MRT.

-Only few formulas, in some cases know how to pass. For example a FZR can't to pass a RB4 if is not hitting. The others only pass if the front exits of the race line.

-None gives way when has blue flag.

-FOX (and others) don't know how leave the grass and return to track.

-All cars (XRT vs XRT, or BF1 vs BF1, etc) make the same movements in the same location, lap after lap, the same errors or "last braking"... etc. The only differences between drivers is that the 1st is a little faster than 2nd that is a little faster than 3th.. etc

-And a very large etc

Quote from Napalm Candy :

-All cars (XRT vs XRT, or BF1 vs BF1, etc) make the same movements in the same location, lap after lap, the same errors or "last braking"... etc. The only differences between drivers is that the 1st is a little faster than 2nd that is a little faster than 3th.. etc

I think that's just part of them using one unified AI path or something. It can be quite funny to watch them do it when they're all in a line - it's like a conga dance. As a quick fix try listening to this as you watch them.

Qualifying - KY Oval. Full field (XFR, XZR, XRR) of AI on 3 minute quali. Ai started from the pit - did 2 laps - and as the 3 minutes ended - 1/2 the field failed to make a last lap, eg they didnt cross the finish line before the end of Quali - thos that had had sufficient fuel left but didnt not complete the lap they were on.

Because the clock had gone to Zero - they pitted and ended session(pulled into garage) - even though they could still have done a flying lap.

Quote from Scawen :

Please report any issues you find in the new AI drivers in this thread.

Try to avoid duplicate bug reports.

KNOWN ISSUES : The AI will still drive into you quite a lot when you are racing, in the pit lane or on the main track. The focus so far has been their speed and racing reliability, and their ability to pit. I expect to work on their behaviour around other cars this week.

The speed is good, unfortunately the same can't be said for how clean their racing is.

Good work with speed of AIs but they really need to crash a lot less, after a 1 lap race at SO chicane route all cars were damaged and some totally wrecked

There was even an airbourne XFG as the cars came down off the bridge

Quote from JO53PHS :

The speed is good, unfortunately the same can't be said for how clean their racing is.

Good work with speed of AIs but they really need to crash a lot less, after a 1 lap race at SO chicane route all cars were damaged and some totally wrecked

There was even an airbourne XFG as the cars came down off the bridge

That's strange. I thought the AI on SO Chicane was fixed? I ran two AI-only races earlier today, both of them using the XFG and XRG. Both races were 20+ laps and all cars finished (without damage) each time.

When you are online and the server you are playing on displays how fast you've reached 100km, if you have an ai driver out on the track (that you put there) and you leave the pits, you'll see thousands of those 0-100km messages. Not sure if this counts as an lfs bug, or something those servers need to fix, but posted here anyway. I've only replicated this once after the first time.

Quote from thatguy :

When you are online and the server you are playing on displays how fast you've reached 100km, if you have an ai driver out on the track (that you put there) and you leave the pits, you'll see thousands of those 0-100km messages. Not sure if this counts as an lfs bug, or something those servers need to fix, but posted here anyway. I've only replicated this once after the first time.

It is insim app that has been installed to server that causes this as LFS has no such feature in itself that would show how fast you accelerate to 100kph.

this happened a few times today after the update single player in so chicane

the tyer/CT bar (the f9 key)

wouldnt show me any wear or heat always just black

You might want to save that as a .jpg and repost, since it's half a meg for that tiny little bitmap.

Theres a funny issue with the way they pit on KY oval with the UF1 (yes we actually spent about an hour tonight watching the AIs race that combo). Anyway the problem is when they go for their pitstop they do what looks a lot like a handbrake turn and overshoot their parking position by a mile. By the looks of it I´d guess its caused by the kink along the pitlane.

edit:
Sorry ´bout that. After trying again offline with race_s it would seem that the issue was caused by casse´s retarded setup and not the AI.

Ran two 50 lap races with 12 AI (XFR and UFR) on AS Club Rev (Reset - No, Pitstop - NO). There was one problem which wasn't mentioned yet (?) - after about half a race, first XFRs started blowing their front right tyres and going to pits afterwards, BUT missing they pit box(or not reaching one) - they simply stopped in between two yellow marked spots. As nothing happens (because they don't "check in"), they immediately go again to the track with all the damage they have and a blown tyre. So such crippled AI then goes to pits again in the next lap, and it's still the same - they stop in the wrong place, nothing happens, they go out. And so on and on for every lap, until race ends. All XFRs except one had this problem, but none of the UFRs (they pitted correctly). spr is ~40 MB so i'll upload it somewhere if really needed.

p.s. almost sleeping as I'm writing this, but you get the point...

i think the new patch is awesome, but the things that people really wanted fixed arent much better :/ the ai drivers are still as dumb as dog shlt. il still play the game non stop, but ill bltch and moan all the way to the finish