If you can afford it, buy a G25 and skip the DFP. I bought a DFP not too long ago, because I didn't feel like putting out that much money, and I'm already sorry I've made that decision. If I had to choose again, I'd save up a tad longer and get the G25 -- for it's faster ffb, the h-shifter and the clutch pedal. I'm sure it's worth it.

Guys i understand and fully agree with what you're saying, a wheel does enhance the realism and fun of LFS.

My point is that for a hwile and up until the new patch i was playing with the big boys that hold WR's and such on BF1 BL1, all of them had wheels, just beating one of them with my trusty old keyboard just made it more sweet, plus if your 2 tenths off the quickest time there why bother spening £60-£150 on a wheel.

My lucks come to an end now, LFS is harder than it was before especially with the BF1, so to all you BF1 racers out there on keys take my advise, save up and buy a wheel because keys aren't going to work on the new patch anymore.

Thanks for the support and help guys, theres a used DFP on ebay at the moment up to 99p looks a bit tatty though and im worried it will break so brand new it is i think.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Logitech ... ZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Might be a steal if no-one buys it, probably done the wrong thing posting it on here.

@Linsen - Poeple have told me the exact same and some people tell me that any wheel is better than keyboard and a DFP is the best wheel below the G25 and assured me the difference was only build quality, so im kind of torn between.
Ill update everyone after christmas on what i got but until then not much more to say really.

FBM rules! btw

Quote from orange_boy_uk :

Wow ure big? How is that crying? only because he doesn't want to use a wheel, i don't.. does that make me a baby or wanna cry? I use mouse and keyboard. I too hate the new clutch thing and also the car set problem. Plus that new 1.2 bmw F1 car is rubbish. I mean why do we need more F1 cars and why for demo's.
I will never use a wheel as i choose to use mouse and keyboard, it's like me using mouse over controller for first person shooters, i prefer to use mouse.

While his post was rude I have to say I agree on some level...

No one is saying you can't use what ever controller you want, but its a driving simulator...and driving a F1 car with a keyboard and mouse in real life would probably be trickier then with its steering wheel.

I would completely support your argument if they removed mouse and/or keyboard as an input option, but improving the physics engine to the point where it highlights the inefficiencies of your inputs isn't the games fault...its your controllers.

(not directed at OP, I recognize he isn't complaining)

Quote from spankmeyer :

You're sad because your driving methods are far from ideal (better word than 'realistic')? Can't blame you. Stop crying, buy a decent wheel and then criticize.

wow..what an advert for the game and forum you are.

Quote from [The.O.C] LaughingGravy :

wow..what an advert for the game and forum you are.

Spanky is very precious to our community. He never fails to deliver the best comedy acts.

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

First of all LFS is now being designed for a wheel and not really compatible now with keyboard (which i use), the BF1 has chnaged loads, its harder to drive for one, the clutch thing is bugging me, the gea change is awful with auto gears (the only gears i can use)

Your keyboard only has four buttons on it? Don't you have a mouse plugged into your PC, if you want to play an accurate simulation at least use the what input methods are already attached to your PC.

I've been using a mouse for awhile with keyboard for the clutch.. The patch was fairly seemly, but for mouse/kb users now you need to have the clutch fully in before you think about shifting the gear.

It wasn't like that before, and that isn't more "real", because I never use a clutch to pull my car out of gear IRL.

But I dont see how the BF1's shifting is different from how it was? It's still paddle shifting, no clutch needed unless your taking off

Its not just the shifting, it used to have lightning quick shifts, now it does'nt down chnages are the worst when it kicks in it just sends you.

What i don't get is, that if lfs is now more "realistic" why are we using the clutch for upshifts, most dog boxes don't require the clutch for upshifts only on downshifts (like my dads car)

Yes the clutch will wear out more because of this (in about half a season) but in a BF1 they don't clutch on upshifting so why the hell are we??

If you want to make it more realistic, your going the right way but some of the stuff your bringing in is bringing it further away from it, the BF1 also handles very differently, understeers, the tyres have been a problem for me also, sometimes after HALF A LAP they are smoking i mean cum'on.

PS: I promised i'd calm down but just tried having another go in it and it wound me up so much you wouldn't belive!

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Yes the clutch will wear out more because of this (in about half a season) but in a BF1 they don't clutch on upshifting so why the hell are we??

If you want to make it more realistic, your going the right way but some of the stuff your bringing in is bringing it further away from it, the BF1 also handles very differently, understeers, the tyres have been a problem for me also, sometimes after HALF A LAP they are smoking i mean cum'on.

We are not using clutch when we are upshifting in the BF1!

As for the tyres, You are probably using R2s, which are now Soft Qualifying tyres. Also, you probably arent driving very well if they are smoking after half a lap.
Solution: Use R4s for race..

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

What i don't get is, that if lfs is now more "realistic" why are we using the clutch for upshifts, most dog boxes don't require the clutch for upshifts only on downshifts (like my dads car)

LFS doesn't have your dad's car.

Quote :

Yes the clutch will wear out more because of this (in about half a season) but in a BF1 they don't clutch on upshifting so why the hell are we??

Why are YOU doing that? BF1 is semi-automatic, meaning the clutch is taken care of by the computer like in real life Formula One cars too.

Quote :

If you want to make it more realistic, your going the right way but some of the stuff your bringing in is bringing it further away from it, the BF1 also handles very differently, understeers, the tyres have been a problem for me also, sometimes after HALF A LAP they are smoking i mean cum'on.

Racing tyres heats and wears more quickly. Read the readme.

Quick bit of advice Pearcy, and slightly off topic.

If you really want to bid on that DFP, if i were you i'd go and edit your previous post and remove the link. Just in case someone in here spots it and tries to out bid you, but it's your choice

Quote from deggis :

LFS doesn't have your dad's car.


Why are YOU doing that? BF1 is semi-automatic, meaning the clutch is taken care of by the computer like in real life Formula One cars too.


Racing tyres heats and wears more quickly. Read the readme.

What a great idea, lets put racing cars in LFS and then totally forget about what a real racing cars gearbox does, whoever came up with that needs a pat on the back.

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Its not just the shifting, it used to have lightning quick shifts, now it does'nt down chnages are the worst when it kicks in it just sends you.

Yeah, you need to shift at the top of the gear more and use the momentum to slap the next gear quicker.. but with the mouse/kb, you need full clutch to even get the gear to budge..

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=35605

^ I made a very detailed post about, what I think would help the most with the mouse/kb users, from what they changed from the "wheel" settings to change on ours.

Quote from ghost racer :

Yeah, you need to shift at the top of the gear more and use the momentum to slap the next gear quicker.. but with the mouse/kb, you need full clutch to even get the gear to budge..

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=35605

^ I made a very detailed post about, what I think would help the most with the mouse/kb users, from what they changed from the "wheel" settings to change on ours.

Thats the problem i use auto shift, as i always have done so i get more car control, it never used to cost me much time maybe 2 tenths, with auto gears it decides when to chnage gear so if its not happy when i go into a corner and decides to chnage down im in the grass basically.

I'm playing this from a demo players point of view. The thing about the demo is that it's so fun that people buy the full. It's not even fun to drift anymore. I enjoy drifting AND gripping (I know talking about drifting is risky on the forums). Drifting was just so fun. But now all we have is a sluggish XRG (Trust me if feels and sounds sluggish).
Drifting uphill isn't that fun, and I think everyone can agree with that, because Blackwood non-reversed is mainly uphill.
I really do hope that something is fixed because it will drive away alot of the fanbase. If you want to encourage people to buy S2, making the demo crappier isn't going to help. I personally am about to get S2, so I'm not over-devastated.
I go onto the demo and I'm already seeing people saying their going to uninstall. Weather they do or not, I don't know. It doesn't feel like I can even go fast anymore.
I do like the clutch update though because it gives those of us with a wheel and advantage. However putting the FMB or whatever in the demo is ridiculous. It's going to bring crashing to a whole new level, people that even tap your car spin you out (We all know how demo racers are).

I have mixed feelings about the patch, but the things I don't like are the no reversed maps and the XRT out(on the demo).

PS I know people will say "Then just get the full and stop whining" but you have to think critically here and realize what makes a person get S2 and that some people just don't have the cash.

I know I'll think of something to improve what I have to say after I press "Submit New Thread"

I have the solution that will end all your problems.

Problem Solver

ignorance is bliss

I knew some Canadians we're ass poor, but didn't thought some wouldn't but fortunated enough to buy a game...

You should sell your computer and start working instead of whining that you can't dori-dori anymore in Demo... BS

Hmm I paid almost $48 us for lfs beta.... 4 years later.. yeah it was worth it

As you seem to be buing the license anyway I will not say more about that.

Your notion is that the FBM is a bad thing for the demo? I have to disagree with that.

Now the demo is a better representation of LFS. It has a FWD car a RWD car and a formula (a.k.a. Single-Seater) car.

If you are infact saying that the loss of the XRT is a bad thing for the demo drifters. I will agree. But I don't think demo drifter are worth a fetid dingo's kidneys. So no great loss there.

XRG is not fun to drift, but you can drift it. So people will be buying LFS to get a better drift car, rather than not buying LFS because they are only interested in drifting the XRT. This way we might convert some drifters, you never know they might stop calling it 'gripping' and start calling it racing.

Quote from Riders Motion :

I knew some Canadians we're ass poor, but didn't thought some wouldn't but fortunated enough to buy a game...

You should sell your computer and start working instead of whining that you can't dori-dori anymore in Demo... BS

Did you not read the part where I said I'm about to get it?
As in i'm waiting for the money to go through paypal. Which why I say ignorance is bliss. Because you dont read the arguement before you can stop yourself from saying some smart ass remark.

The XRT was removed so demo users would buy S2. simple. demos are supost to be a taste of the meal, not the entire course.

Then just get the full and stop whining

drive away a lot of fanbase huh..... some fans you are.... never contributing to the development of this game....

The demo has always been TOO GOOD. There has been much talk about this very fact the last couple of months... what other comparable racing sim gives you so much for FREE?

Be happy that you have what you have... it could be MUCH MUCH WORSE.