I dt need a progress report, just a word from devs saying "we are working on LFS" or "I'm not working on LFS atm, i'm fixing, kitchen , waterroom, whatever", would be 100x time better than .. nothing... right now, i'm really disappointed that there is zer0 information about what's going on ... i'm so tired with slicks temp/wear problems that i only drive TBO now...

Sorry if i sounds pessimistic, but this is no fun having no info, like Tweaker said, LFS was so great because sim is great and we have constant new stuf to test, or read.. i miss that too. !

cheers,

As far as I remember Scawen said that he'll be "less" working on LFS in december to finish his kitchen and do some research for bug fixing.

It would be really nice to know what they are working on atm, especially Eric as I haven't even seen him posting here , but I think posting progress reports are only usefull when there is any progress, so give them some time the year has just started.
And as Scawen is very quiet at the moment, I'm sure he's doing some bigger coding and reading about physics.

Just one thing, I want some new kitchen pics, as this a one of the best stories ever

3j

PS: I know about the bugs, but I'm still playing S2 nearly every evening and still having a lots of fun

Me too. Play nearly everynight that is. Much to the annoiance of my long suffering girlfriend. And to be honest alot of that playability comes from the very fact that this is not a finished product. I love the nuts and bolts feel of it atm. The fact that the sound may not be perfect (From a fidelity point of view) but as far as driver input goes it's perfect. Stuff like that I like. So god knows how good this will be when The 'proper' one comes out!!

It may not be perfect Devs, but it's well screwed together. No nasty load times, no messy hookups to servers. Very stable net code. Good pings and a good size playing field. I can wait a little longer. So far I am getting very good value for money.

To maintain interest and a good following its imperative that they continue in a steady rate, getting new customers and keeping the old ones happy, part of the allure of playing lfs is knowing that what we have isnt it, theres more to come, but when nothing is done for such a long time, and not a word about anything except kitchens (pardon me while i yawn), the appeal is somewhat lost, specially if like me, you play almost every day.

Scawen did make some posts here recently, just no progress reports. I guess he's working on the physics, so there's not much to tell except things like "yesterday I tested two different formulas for calculating the correct wind resistance depending on the suspension height". But well, that would be at least a small news

Btw, patch Q isn't even 2 months old yet, it's just that this patch didn't include any major updates for most players.

I just hope this doesn't turn into a 'we demand a progress report' thread that Scawen has admitted to not liking much.

I think Tweak has a point that we are seeing less updates (little patches) and progress reports since the S1 (and pre S1) days. I think partly this is because LFS has got more complex, and making improvements to it is a much longer process, but also because LFS has become more popular. Scawen himself has said that he doesn't want to release to many patches, as most would render a previous version obsolete and require people to download a new version, update servers and generally disrupt the flow of LFS. A lot of people stuggle to install LFS itself (somehow), and don't check here or LFS.net, and would be horrified when one day no one is online (cos they're all on different versions).

I've suggested that LFS has an autoupdate function within that not only tells you there is an update but downloads and installs it for you. But I see no reason why this has to be in LFS itself. Could someone make a decent 3rd party program that can check for updates (parse for the latest version), download said update/patch and even install it in the proper folder? If it was good enough it might become semi official, and then everyone can have the latest version of LFS, and Scawen would need to worry less about upsetting people.

I would never tell anyone how to go about their business, but from the point of view of a long term player, I cannot see the advantages of leaving LFS as it is, if the only disadvantage of improving some of the glaringly obvious and annoying quirks/flaws is that people would have to update to enjoy them.

If they'd just fix one thing, like the way almost all the grip returns to the tyre once you've nearly worn it down to the canvas, or the aero issues. It would make such a difference to a lot of us.

may be i'm wrong, but there is a point that influence also the progress of the development. I guess LFS reached a level, where it is known to a wide public. so the devs may earn now money for the work they did over the last years. it surely was hardwork to get LFS to Version S2A - the motivation goes a step back ... so actually u get money, but u dont have to work that hard, compared to the last few years. some day in the future LFS will stop selling that good (hype is over), cuz the development is slow. thats the point where the dev may start working harder, to earn more money ... ok this is pure speculation, but i think i'm not completely wrong with it. well, the devs are just humans and it is not meant as a flame!!! i'm quite happy with LFS, so dont get me wrong...

And with slow i dont mean they nearly stoped development, but they may work only 8h instead of 16h/day on it :insane:

Quote from Tweaker :

Tweaker and other long standing members - I know this is probably being a little presumptuous, but is it just the update schedule or do you feel this way because the community is just not the same as it was back in 2003 - early 2004 (this is what I sense with a lot of folks I know but I could be way off ) I personally only found LFS in early 2004 and have very fond memories of that time, and even when I meet someone again that I haven't seen for six months to a year from that time, we normally reminisce Anyway the community is continually changing and evolving and it's only human nature to be uncomfortable with that, I've seen many long standing and well respected members drift away after playing LFS none stop for 1 - 2 years, but there is always new people finding the game also... and I believe a lot of those that drift away will come back to LFS down the road... I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you play a game so long its only natural to reach saturation, and you will either put it aside for awhile or find new challenges related to it (like programming add-ons, or running a team, or organising a league, etc... not saying you haven’t done this Tweaker as I know you have done a lot of extra stuff for the community, I’m just speaking in general terms) I mean for a lot of the guys that reach the top say 5% of fast racers and stay there for some time will probably struggle to keep interest indefinitely without other challenges that’s one side of it, I also think we get real good friendships happening and over time circumstances change and you can't always keep that same great bunch together which can change how you feel about the game also... anyway what I'm trying to say is we need to see that about ourselves and make decisions to change how we feel... or if that’s not possible then give it a rest for awhile (what I mean by that is what you feel is probably quite normal and has little to do with the schedule of update – that being just the most obvious thing to blame )

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=52674#post52674

Quote from Scawen :

Regular progress reports are a long requested thing, but unfortunately it doesn't really work that way. It's best to just report when we actually have something interesting to report.

Because progress reports are another of these things that often cause great anger, if the report is about the development of something that some racers aren't waiting for (so our priorities are all wrong) or three weeks have been spent on a new editor function (often perceived as entirely pointless). Or, if we have been experimenting for weeks on something that may or may not be released, then it would be a near fatal mistake to mention it... we know what happens if we say "one day this new feature may possibly be implemented" - then it somehow becomes something we have promised! So we can't ever mention anything unless it's in the almost complete stage.

The only way forward with progress reports, is to make one when we have something interesting to say. Those intermediate things that some people would be interested in, aren't actually very interesting and only cause anger with some other people, due to the apparently slow pace of software development, when viewed by an external observer.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=52898#post52898

Quote from Scawen :

No, sorry, there won't be anything this year.

In about November, we hoped to be able to get something together for Christmas, a minor physics update and a new config in one of the tracks. But in fact it became clear that would take too long... no-one really wants a minor physics update with bugs in it. They want a very well tested physics update, including aero and tyres.

Personally, i have been finishing my kitchen which has been in a half-completed state for seven years. Always considering tyre physics and so on, to get on with it in January.

I had to actually think about should I post or not as the whole conversation has been done so many times lately. And the result has usually been a locked thread. Which was the correct thing to do, after all.

Generally the only thing that really troubles me is the high nose bug. I'd consider it a critical bug, something that would be needed to get fixed as soon as possible. It has massive effect on lap times and it makes the whole "setting up the car" aspect very unrealistic. You can't be competitive without that kind of setup.

But still LFS is absolutely the best piece of programming in terms of it's realiability and functionality. It has a lot of features others sims don't have and it's physics are very good, with actually surprisingly few glitches.

the high nose bug may be part of the aero physics.
and tyres hav to be updated too cause r2 are the only useful ones atm.

i agree with the big update including all. people would be disappointed if u reset their hotlaps too often.

Quote from chrinkler :

tyres hav to be updated too cause r2 are the only useful ones atm.

I dunno, I almost exclusively use R3s on the FXR.

Quote from Whisper :

I want a "lack of progress" report.

This is a great idea.

People who are inclined to ask, should ask for a Lack of Progress report. This way there will always be something to report, and if there isn't - then there would be an actual progress report which would be a bonus!!!

Quote from chrinkler :

i agree with the big update including all. people would be disappointed if u reset their hotlaps too often.

I could care less about hotlaps. I would rather see small changes (and have the ability to comment on them positively or negatively) than wait to get an all-inclusive large patch and then be "stuck" with it until the next large patch comes along.

Of course, however Scawen decides to do things is fine with me because even an incomplete S2 that we have now is better than anything else on the market.

Yeah, a questionairre from the devs, I'd take time out to answer that as seriously and unbiasedly as I could.

Quote from Cue-Ball :

I could care less about hotlaps. I would rather see small changes (and have the ability to comment on them positively or negatively) than wait to get an all-inclusive large patch and then be "stuck" with it until the next large patch comes along.

Of course, however Scawen decides to do things is fine with me because even an incomplete S2 that we have now is better than anything else on the market.

True dat.

Agreed. I've spent more time racing on LFS then I have spent playing any other racing game. Plus you can always get better at LFS, so you can play it forever and still get better.

come on Scawen... Kitchen update.

:shhh: Shhhh, he's in the programming *ZONE*, hacking away at 200wpm. His head is swirring full of tyre load formulas and grip falloff curves, don't interrupt him!

Yes but we need to make sure that the kitchen is done so he doesn't get mal norished and he begins to halucinate never know what we might end up with if that happens he might spend all his time creating cannons for the cars to shoot those that don't obey blue flags

His kitchen wasn't done for the last 7 years, so I don't guess that's a problem RIGHT NOW


Zombie Scawen craves BRAAAAAAIIIINNNNNSSSSSSS....

Quote from AndroidXP :

His kitchen wasn't done for the last 7 years, so I don't guess that's a problem RIGHT NOW

I don't know if he only half finished it, it might but maybe he makes good use of the local Pizza delivery service

Quote from B2B@300 :

creating cannons for the cars to shoot those that don't obey blue flags

Y'know, you might be onto something there. Superb idea.

Quote from B2B@300 :

Yes but we need to make sure that the kitchen is done so he doesn't get mal norished and he begins to halucinate

A productive coder is a hungry coder. Starvation = motivation

Instead of a full blown report, can we get a yes or no on whether or not developement is actually taking place full-time? I would be curious if this is a full time commitment for the devs or whether or not families, kitchens, and other things come first during normal business hours. I usually leave my family stuff till after hours. Is LFS a spare time thing, or can we assume Scawen and company do nothing but LFS 9-5 and then do whatever they want after that?