Quote from xaotik :

Hey, museums and collectors cherish rare things for a reason you know. Hell, if you don't want zeugnimod I'll just add him to my chase view driver collection.

*rubs hands* soon... they'll all be mine... and then... *evil laughter*

But don't forget to add The Very End, Rappa Z, ALDI, J. Pickard etc. to your collection, too. We are stronger than you think!



Nice way to distract from my original argument about the non-existing difference in racing quality between chase view and cockpit drivers, though. Not you, xaotik.

Quote from Polyracer :

So are you saying - that using chase cam will make up for a lack of skill?

No, he said the exact opposite: A driving view doesn't affect racecraft, skill does.

Quote from JTbo :

But I would think regular chase view driver is by far minority, perhaps even as rare as we can call him exception

fujiwara, I'm talking about way of thinking, how similar thinking minds tend to choose similar methods doing things and such.

My driving license has about 10 years.
I drive everyday.
Allways drived a manual shifted car.
Sometimes attend to a track racing rented karts, yet i'm ... something here, don't even know what type of label should i get.

Quote from Polyracer :

So are you saying - that using chase cam will make up for a lack of skill?

Some will allways be bad racers no matter what camera they use.
That's what i'm trying to say, don't deviate.

Quote from JTbo :

I prefer girls

Pity it's not mutual. :P

Every single forced cockpit server I find I'm going to leave.

Why you ask?

Quite simple really, how many people do you know with old graphics cards and don't exactly get prime FPS?
My desktop is one of those, and along with I'm sure 50% or more possibly of the entire LFS community out there.

Who cares about how real something looks? Scawen once said LFS wasn't made in mind to take screenshots. So what if someone uses the chase view, maybe they're from the country and drive big trucks, or like to think they're driving a big truck and are chasing.. whatever they're driving in LFS.
I use the custom wheel cam because when I use cockpit view nobody better be around, or my FPS will splatter to the ground and I'll immediately crash.

Now. Even if I had 3 32" widescreen monitors and the best graphics card out there. You still wouldn't get me to say "yes, force cockpits", because I know how many people out there playing LFS don't have high end computers, and the devs have ALWAYS supported the slower computers out there for as long as possible.

Quote from MyBoss :

I didn't say that cockpitview isn't realistic, I meant that there are other cockpit views than the current one that are better and more realistic.
Because in the current one you got your steeringwheel on your desk, and then you sit in a position in the car that you get another steeringwheel in front of you.

When I drive a car and consentrate on my driving (IRL) I don't even see the steeringwheel in front of me because of my focus on whats going on outside.

I think it would have been more realistic if the view in the game were set up right above the steeringwheel or on the dashboard.
Or atleast so that everyone could ajust "cockpit view" a little bit to their own likings.


And don't give me that "well, you can see the steeringwheel in real life". Thats not the point, in real life I allso got over 180degrees of view to the sides without moving my head. I can't get that in any game without investing loads of money, and therefore I mean that the game must compensate on that in one way or another.

You can easily get rid of the wheel in cockpit view Look for an option in the "View" menu that says "Draw Driver/Wheel". There are other options there that can adjust the cockpit view to however you like it.

@ DavidSS

Dam good post, one of the best I've seen written on the subject - and also mirrors my experience.

I switched from chase to cockpit view, it was strange and hard at first, but I persevered and am now thinking that chase cam is something we all go through, - but when you want that something that is missing, you will only find it behind the wheel.

I think a larger preferably wide screen helps though.

Quote from XCNuse :

So what if someone uses the chase view, maybe they're from the country and drive big trucks, or like to think they're driving a big truck and are chasing.. whatever they're driving in LFS.

Great point.

I will have to keep that in mind to shut the hardcore prophets up the next time. I'm sure they won't find an answer to that.

Quote from zeugnimod :

No, he said the exact opposite: A driving view doesn't affect racecraft, skill does.

Still disagree,

Of course you view will change your skill, and it will also effect your decisions and when you make them.

Skill comes down to how well you execute those decisions

We agree to disagree then.

Quote from fujiwara :

Some will allways be bad racers no matter what camera they use.
That's what i'm trying to say, don't deviate.

True, but they "may" be better drivers, if they can see more - better - faster.

Some will of course be bad drivers, some will not be even thinking about their racing, some are playing game and ignoring completely fact that others on track are people too, some don't respect other at all.

It is good that force cockpit view is option, when I feel less serious I have no problem if I race against racers that use chase view, they have advantage of seeing my wobbly car next to their, I have to adjust my line based what I hear most of time or then I need to look to side and miss what happens at front of me

But when I get serious I prefer that all around me are using cockpit view, in corners people need to be far more careful as you can't tell what there is at side of your car while you are looking where you are going.

Two threads merged to this thread.

PEOPLE, please, if there is a thread already on topic, don't make another one!
And on top of that, don't make a third one!

Quote from Polyracer :

Still disagree,

Of course you view will change your skill, and it will also effect your decisions and when you make them.

Skill comes down to how well you execute those decisions

LOL.
You are so wrong, a bad politician will allways be bad no matter is from left, centre, right, green, anarquist, etc.
Decisions are diferent from camera, because the perspective changes, and thats all.

Seems like on these forums there are lots of people who think that LFS is meant to be played like they imagine it to being meant to be played

Stop being selfish/immature and accep difference over YOUR realism. If you haven't learned anything about acceptace and diversity I really hope you will someday,
because you can't think that everyone is like you and wants the same realism as you do that eats out something that makes their game experience enjoyable

C'mon people, really

Quote from JTbo :

But when I get serious I prefer that all around me are using cockpit view, in corners people need to be far more careful as you can't tell what there is at side of your car while you are looking where you are going.

You don't see the cars that much earlier in chase view, either. You mostly have to drive by sound and common sense. Did you think I was driving with the "camera" some 50 meters behind the car?


Very well said, Californian!

Quote from XCNuse :

Two threads merged to this thread.

PEOPLE, please, if there is a thread already on topic, don't make another one!
And on top of that, don't make a third one!

Good, was bit hard to keep on track who was who already here

Quote :

You don't see the cars that much earlier in chase view, either. You mostly have to drive by sound and common sense. Did you think I was driving with the "camera" some 50 meters behind the car?

No, but for me, please do this test:

Drive two cars side to side, check if you can see other car when focusing track ahead in your view, now do this in cockpit view, found difference? You could do this in replay where some driver overtakes from inside at BL1 T1 for example

lol, I love how like people who are paranoid because they don't use cockpit view and haven't used it enough to be just as fast with it like always try to think of excuses to make them feel like they really don't have an advantage and there's actually valid reasons for using some stupid ass 'sit in front of the bumper', or 'flying 20 feet behind the car' view. Just stop trying to fight everyone because you can't drive with cockpit view unlike the rest of the world, and anyone who races in real life.

Also it's quite sad how EVERY post on these forums is about something that's already been debated at least 17 thousand times. There should really be a 'USE THE ****ING SEARCH' sticky if there isn't one already. Maybe you'd start seeing some useful threads being made on these forums for once.

Quote from Californian :

Seems like on these forums there are lots of people who think that LFS is meant to be played like they imagine it to being meant to be played

Stop being selfish/immature and accep difference over YOUR realism. If you haven't learned anything about acceptace and diversity I really hope you will someday,
because you can't think that everyone is like you and wants the same realism as you do that eats out something that makes their game experience enjoyable

C'mon people, really

LFS has a cicle: Pre Patch whinners, Patch, Post Patch Whinners.

It's allways about something that has been taken or about something that must be taken.

Quote from fujiwara :

LFS has a cicle: Pre Patch whinners, Patch, Post Patch Whinners.

It's allways about something that has been taken or about something that must be taken.

True, then times between we just look those rocks and every now and then someone tries to open discussion but does not find nothing to say

What do you guys think, should LFS be build so that you have good to play view with 17" monitor or good realism with 3x100" screen?

I would say build so that both are possible

Quote from XCNuse :

1.Who cares about how real something looks?

2.So what if someone uses the chase view, maybe they're from the country and drive big trucks, or like to think they're driving a big truck and are chasing..

3.I use the custom wheel cam because when I use cockpit view nobody better be around, or my FPS will splatter to the ground and I'll immediately crash.

.

1. I care, I thought LFS was a Simulation, and therefore needs to SIMULATE

2. Why the hell would any sim driver want to think they were driving a truck when they chose a CAR?????

3. I find with the wheel and arms turned off in cockpit view (after all I have my own wheel and arms) the fps is just the same as chase view, so not quite sure what you are on about there?

Simon

"Cockpit view" is the obvious view to use. It's the first that you'd set up if you were creating a simulation to be used for training purposes, for example. (The details, fov etc would be a personal thing). Therefore we have to compare other views with this one, and not with each other. The only real issue, though, imho, is whether any of the other views are 'easier' than cockpit view, because that's the only way that someone else's view point will actually affect the game which you are playing yourself. It's not about "simulation" to me, I only care about things that affect the level playing field competition is based on, which is why I don't really care very much about this, because if there is an advantage to be had, it's not a big one.

BUT, the general consensus has always been that central cameras in cars which have off-set driver positions give an advantage, as do elevated cameras in some cases and cameras which magically remove parts of the car from the user's sight. It's not hard to imagine that being true. Is it?

Quote from XCNuse :

Every single forced cockpit server I find I'm going to leave.

You shouldn't have to go on one at all. There's an 'F' on the server list info that tells you it's a FCV server. Don't join it!

i am not driving with a chase cam..... i have modified cockpit views.... as example: i drive with a cam on bf1 wich is similar to the tv cockpit view
gtrs and other road cars i have a slightly modified cockpit view. its a bit higher and a bit more to the right side (i drive left handed).
when you say only cockpit, i have to leave lfs, cause it would be dangerous to all of you if i have to drive with forced cokpit view....

and simulation or not.... lfs is at the end only a game

Quote from shmall719 :

3. I find with the wheel and arms turned off in cockpit view (after all I have my own wheel and arms) the fps is just the same as chase view, so not quite sure what you are on about there?

Just tried that to see what advantage it made. 1 FPS
fantastic.
Turned off the mirrors to see what else I got. 3 FPS from original

Benchmarked by doing the following: BL, full set of AI, me in back of pack, sitting at start line.

By the way, some people forget what a simulator is. Depending on what it is, it simulates what it is in attempt to simulate, for LFS, this is physics, for MS Flight simulator, it is the overall aspect of flying, for XPlane, it is physics, for "The Sims".. who knows.