Quote from The Very End :

When did the camera veiw tell if your a newbie or not?
There is many drivers out there that doesn`t use cockpit veiw, that are both skilled and fast. How can you belive that only cockpit veiw users are the only "not newbie" people in LFS.

But allright, I`ll go for LFS arcade then, since I don`t use cockpit veiw -.-

But time for bed now.
Freedom to the people, tho LFS isn`t a democracy.

Erm can't help thinking you've misunderstood. Maybe it was the word nambies that threw you. Sorry it's an English expression from namby pamby but it was a tounge in cheek remark anyway, so don't worry.

The point is if people want to use chase view then let them, if they want tyre temps/clutch heat gauge/maps/time splits/etc then fine let them have them. I'd rather not race with any of the above (+many others besides)

I'd like a serverside option to have either a full on hardcore mode or an all things permitted mode. It's got nothing to do with a level playing field situation either, it's more of a challenge, the harder it is the more rewarding it is when you get to the end unscathed. But thats just me, i prefer the hard to drive cars in LFS because they're so much more rewarding when you get it right. I've not got too much interest in the tintops or the winged cars these days, they just don't float my boat, and even though the FBM is a fine addition to the line up, it has yet to give me that LX grin which is rapidly changing to an RAC grin thanks to the added engine inertia. Anyone who's raced me online will tell you i'm possibly one of the slowest guys online, but i really really don't care. I'm not here to set records or improve my win stats. I'm here because LFS replaced GPL with it's immersion/feeling and grin factor that i crave.

So to summaries, lets have a hardcore mode and an all options permitted mode and lets put an end to all this pointless bickering and have some fun (unless you enjoy arguing ?)


off topic, Hey JTbo you had a good crimbo ?

Oh my, you guys make this look complicated

Anyway... I've been on both sides. I used to drive with that custom view until the patch which added the option to force the cockpit view. I think it makes 4 years of LFS with just front wheels visible. Some people asked why I didn't use the cockpit view. I explained that with my poor CPU the cockpit would've hurt my framerate and only 1/3 of my little screen would've been showing what was happening on track. Then, suddenly there was a nice LX6@so1 server running and my beloved custom view was blocked.

This made me try how it worked with that stupid, long LX bonnet in front of me. My laptimes were many seconds slower and I had no clue where my car actually was. I was crashing all the time. Slowly I got used to it and almost got my custom view lap times back.

Afterwards I've tried the custom view a few times. The change from custom to cockpit view was quite natural and I was keen on learning it. Changing back to custom just feels horrible. I can't sense the directions properly and I find myself sliding around too much. Just the same things I was told earlier and I didn't believe. Now I'm 100% sure that cockpit view has made me faster as well.

I've never understood that someone really uses the chase view for racing, so I can't tell about my experiences with it. But no matter which view you're using now, I strongly recommend trying the cockpit one. Not just for one lap or one race, but for one evening or two evenings. I believe you'll find it rewarding.

I have no opinion on the poll but I felt that I had to say this

TBH, i prefere to have one game for everyone which everyone can drive, which should be the same on all servers. And not this server has that restriction and that server has other restrictions.
Well i dont see why we should split up the racers like that.
The white there, the yellow there, and the black sheeps (chase view drivers) are not allowed to get in here. Or only wheel drivers or whatever.
Not dozen options for every server, taking ages to find the right one.
(dont we all like lFS for its great physics AND the simple online mode???)

Either force it in the game for everyone, so every servers runs the same or just leave it as it is. You wont see me crying when it gets forced for everyone globally by lfs. But as i stated in my previous post cockpit view is missing sth to the "real feel", thats why i dont use it....maybe yet

I understand your point Nobo, but to a certain degree LFS already has that. We already have 3 factions within LFS, Race servers, Cruise servers and Drift servers. Whilst there's no restrictions upon entering each one, i personally wouldn't have a clue what to do on a cruise server (credits/money/cops and all that stuff ?) and i've no desire to find out either. Its not my thing, neither is drifting, so in a sense it's a kind of emotional restriction i'm under rather than a coding restriction. So therefore, if someone wants full on hardcore mode than thats an emotional desire but it's something that requires a bit of coding to implement it.

It's all a matter of choice and keeping the punters happy. I'd hate to loose people like TVE and Zuegnimoind (or however he spells his name, yunno who i mean, that guy who smells of elderberries ) just because chase view was completely banned from LFS.

Personally i do think there's room for LFS Lite and LFS Max, but seeing as it's not up to me, i'll just have to accept what Scavier gives us and get on with it.

Quote from RatzMilk :

Doh! I suppose I should have done some more research first. Look behind view has only been removed for us TrackIR users. Using buttons to look around, you can still look 180 degrees behind. It was a post in a reply to my question in the Technical Assistance forum that said it was removed for everyone, and I just accepted that as Gospel.

It seems, it was only removed for some (race) cars for everyone.

For street cars, only TrackIR users no longer have the look behind view. People using buttons to look around can still look 180 degrees behind them. And what's with the magic mirror that appears in the race cars instead of being able to look around. How does that factor into the 'realism' thing? I mean, it appears right beside the rear view mirror and shows exactly the same thing.

We TrackIR users are such a small minority in this Sim that nobody will probably care that this option has been removed just for us.

Imagine though, if it was removed for G25 users, but Momo, other wheels and mouse/keyboard users could still do a 180 degree look around. Then it would probably get more attention.

As I said before, it feels is if TrackIR users are having additional handicaps with these additional view restrictions placed on us, that non TrackIR users do not suffer from.

All I ask is to have the same views available to us TrackIR users as are available to everyone else.

How hard is it to bind a button on your wheel to look behind? Even if you have the G25, you dont need look left/look right, just bind it to a button.

I totally agree with Profi. I'v been driving lfs from the early demo days (2001-2002??) and used custom view for years and I also noticed the cockpit view to be better when the forced cockpit option came along. It just needed some time to get used but after that it was much better. Actually I used both cockpit view and custom view for some time (changed it depending on if I had a "serius" race or just public racing...) to get used to it... But since patch-Y I'v only used cockpit view and I'm not planning on going back to custom view. I also feel that I get less feedback from the car with custom view.

Ditto I've had the same experience.

Used to always use chase view prior to LFS (my old man used to mock me) then in LFS I started to use custom wheels view back in 2004 on recommendation of other users in LFS at that time.

Since FCV was introduced on some servers with the release of patch X I started to use it on and off and since patch Y I use it 100% of the time and don't intend going back. I feel I get far more feedback from it and more enjoyment

Quote from The Very End :

No, I post because I`m seriously feed up by some of the ****s on this forum, that tells me how to drive, and how I AM GOING TO FREAKIN ENJOY THE GAME. I enjoy the game my way, you enjoy it your way. I don`t say that`s your way of playing is wrong, but you do. Whining that chase veiw has advatages, and beeing soooooooo darned non - realistic.

You know what?
Start midning your own buisness, I`m fed up by people who tries to be important by looking down or trying to offend people that don`t enjoy the same things as themselfe. Or who don`t like to use cockpit by eighter opinion based reasons, or by hardware reasons.

When that is said, this post was not pointed towards you Pearcy

Totally agree mate, when racing any car i always use cockpit view always have.

I know you said it wasn't aimed at me, but i kinda feel i sparked it so im sorry. I just wanted an excuse to post this

It does my head in when people decide to make a thread on something as stupid as how you want to view your car, to make it more realistic. I mean i think the devs have more important things to do and it doesn't really matter i occasionally chnage view on a straight to see if i have enough room to swing across after and overtake.

Print screen: don't know why but i just got a screenie when i saw you say that, it was clogging up my computer so it needed to be used lol.

Quote from Nobo :

TBH, i prefere to have one game for everyone which everyone can drive, which should be the same on all servers. And not this server has that restriction and that server has other restrictions.
Well i dont see why we should split up the racers like that.
The white there, the yellow there, and the black sheeps (chase view drivers) are not allowed to get in here. Or only wheel drivers or whatever.
Not dozen options for every server, taking ages to find the right one.
(dont we all like lFS for its great physics AND the simple online mode???)

Either force it in the game for everyone, so every servers runs the same or just leave it as it is. You wont see me crying when it gets forced for everyone globally by lfs. But as i stated in my previous post cockpit view is missing sth to the "real feel", thats why i dont use it....maybe yet

thx aldi, i couldn´t say it better

lfs is only a game.... and making too much restriction.... specially the forced cockpit view will make two camps of lfs drivers... after that maybe the community has no unity... this would be a desaster for us all.

i personally like more to see from the track, but my cockpit is visible.
and think of handicapped drivers like me or some others i met over one year of lfs... i know someone out there has only one arm... and he drives with custom view

Quote from Trekkerfahrer :

lfs is only a game.... and making too much restriction.... specially the forced cockpit view will make two camps of lfs drivers... after that maybe the community has no unity... this would be a desaster for us all.

That's were people are dramatising things too much, the LFS community is already split in many directions and it's doing fine i.e. race servers, drift servers, cruise servers, stunt servers, cops an robbers servers, etc etc

What's all the fuss about hardcore reality servers, only a small percentage of LFSer's would use them and they want necessarily be on them all the time. It's just giving LFS more choice and flexibility.

As to LFS being only a game, well that is true but one of the really great things about LFS is its flexibility to be used in many different ways. Some actually want to treat LFS as a simulator and thus look forward to more realistic options. This does not mean that all will be forced to use it in such a way.

As to it being a disaster to us all, well having more hardcore reality options might actually attract more people to LFS.

Also for those seeking best possible realism, there is nothing else than LFS available, so if there is no possibility to have hardcore options, there still is no sim for realism freaks, we have waited it only from beginning of pc sims

For those that don't like full realism, there has been and still is much more to play so it would be bit unfair to disallow hardcore options.

Quote from Trekkerfahrer :

thx aldi, i couldn´t say it better

lfs is only a game.... and making too much restriction.... specially the forced cockpit view will make two camps of lfs drivers... after that maybe the community has no unity... this would be a desaster for us all

.
Hmmm lets be honest about this, LFS is already split into many factions already, as mentioned above, we've got the cruisers the drifters and the racers. then you can even separate those groups into smaller factions i.e the hardcore racers and the not so hardcore racers etc. (And as for unity, pah you must be kidding.) So removing something like chase view will present those that use it with a dilemma, do they stay or do they go ?

Then the question is do you keep chase view and leave it up to server admins to decide whether it's used or not. Surely for the sake of LFS it's better to only exclude certain people from certain servers/leagues rather than exclude them from the game completely.

Quote from Trekkerfahrer :

i personally like more to see from the track, but my cockpit is visible.
and think of handicapped drivers like me or some others i met over one year of lfs... i know someone out there has only one arm... and he drives with custom view

I'm not sure what your disability is but i'm sure you're aware in life you have to accept what you've been given and simply adapt to any and even situation you may find yourself in. Also you'll be aware that a little bit of creative technology can completely transform the lives of those with disabilities. But you must understand that for people with disabilities there are certain things that you simply can't do, no matter how much you may want it. I personally don't think it's fair to limit anyone anything simply on the premise that someone with a disability can't do it. Therefore forced cockpit view should be used, but only as a serverside option (as it is now)

Post a screen shot of the view you use and we'll have a look at it and see if we can help you come up with something similar in cockpit view.

Quote from JTbo :

Also for those seeking best possible realism, there is nothing else than LFS available, so if there is no possibility to have hardcore options, there still is no sim for realism freaks, we have waited it only from beginning of pc sims

For those that don't like full realism, there has been and still is much more to play so it would be bit unfair to disallow hardcore options.

But there is a limit as to how real LFS can get. After all we are all still sitting in front of a flat computer screen. For the "realism freaks", go out and do some real racing at a real track if you need it to be that real.

Quote from Riders Motion :

+1 For realism, as long as they don't remove the new feature Scawen implanted (the thing to adjust the driver's position inside of the car.

More than 75% of the community wants this, and I think it would be a good thing for realism.

I wish there was another option in that poll.

"Semi hardcore, custom view as long as its INSIDE the car, meaning no invisible cars or flying cams"

Quote from MyBoss :

I wish there was another option in that poll.

"Semi hardcore, custom view as long as its INSIDE the car, meaning no invisible cars or flying cams"

+1

Quote from Mazz4200 :

.
I'm not sure what your disability is but i'm sure you're aware in life you have to accept what you've been given and simply adapt to any and even situation you may find yourself in. Also you'll be aware that a little bit of creative technology can completely transform the lives of those with disabilities. But you must understand that for people with disabilities there are certain things that you simply can't do, no matter how much you may want it. I personally don't think it's fair to limit anyone anything simply on the premise that someone with a disability can't do it. Therefore forced cockpit view should be used, but only as a serverside option (as it is now)

Post a screen shot of the view you use and we'll have a look at it and see if we can help you come up with something similar in cockpit view.

in real life you have at first TWO eyes.... a computer only a narrow view.... even one or two widescreens will not have such a point of view you have in reallife
what my disability is? simple... i can´t look to the right side and i have a tunnel view (only the object i fix on i can see sharp)

here are my views and i think they are cockpit views as well, one gtr view i use for all closed cars and one i use for open wheelers

Quote from NetDemon01 :

But there is a limit as to how real LFS can get. After all we are all still sitting in front of a flat computer screen. For the "realism freaks", go out and do some real racing at a real track if you need it to be that real.

You have not read all posts, I do drive on track IRL...

Quote from Trekkerfahrer :

in real life you have at first TWO eyes.... a computer only a narrow view.... even one or two widescreens will not have such a point of view you have in reallife
what my disability is? simple... i can´t look to the right side and i have a tunnel view (only the object i fix on i can see sharp)

here are my views and i think they are cockpit views as well, one gtr view i use for all closed cars and one i use for open wheelers

Those views are fine, i don't see why they'd exclude you from a forced cockpit server. The only difference is the drivers head is a bit higher than normal, but i don't see it as a problem. In real life Micheal Schumacher sat higher up in the cockpit than Massa did (for e.g) so if it's ok for him then its ok for LFS

That tunnel vision things not nice, i had it once when i took a heavy blow to the head and it took a quite while too leave, i certainly wouldn't want it happen again.

Arcade: Wonder Woman invisible cars, God's eye view, Linda Blair look completly around, etc. ??

I can`t answer a question, put that way. If you start to take the community seriously, then maby I will take you seriously.
It`s a childish way to manipulate a poll, when one of the answers redicules the individuals, which chooses that particulary option.

The question have been asked before, and the thread was closed, by Scawen, as I remember.

So we had this discussion, and I guess we came all the way around the cockpitview

I must say this is the most worthless thread, I haver ever seen on this forum.

Many people use the argument that chase view should be banned becuase it gives the advantage of seeing more. Going by this argument, shouldn't we ban 2-3-more monitor setups also? It's unfair to those who don't have enough money to use them. Oooh, you say those are realistic? Yes, but they still give you an advantage. The same advantage that chase view gives you, to have some peripherial vision, just like in real life.

Quote from Iron :

Many people use the argument that chase view should be banned becuase it gives the advantage of seeing more. Going by this argument, shouldn't we ban 2-3-more monitor setups also? It's unfair to those who don't have enough money to use them. Oooh, you say those are realistic? Yes, but they still give you an advantage. The same advantage that chase view gives you, to have some peripherial vision, just like in real life.

Of course, too bad here is perhaps less than 20 people with display systems that really give you advantage

I find that it is not that people like to ban chase view, but more like people like to ban force cockpit view option, which I can't agree.

Quote from JTbo :

I find that it is not that people like to ban chase view, but more like people like to ban force cockpit view option, which I can't agree.

Ah, aye. Well probably I'm one of the few, who uses cockpit view, always used, but still can't get what's the problem others have with chase view. I hugely miss my (real life) peripherial vision though, my dream is a 180° monitor setup.

Also, I'm racing (almost exclusively) on a FCV server (dead men racing, the place to be if you hate boring combos *shameless plug over*), and I don't think we had more than 1 or 2 occassions where someone complained about the FCV since the introduction of it in W (or which patch). But of course, I guess the unusual combos already filter the average Joe out, so it may not be representative.

Quote from Iron :

Many people use the argument that chase view should be banned becuase it gives the advantage of seeing more. Going by this argument, shouldn't we ban 2-3-more monitor setups also? It's unfair to those who don't have enough money to use them. Oooh, you say those are realistic? Yes, but they still give you an advantage. The same advantage that chase view gives you, to have some peripherial vision, just like in real life.

The difference is that, whilst yes it is an advantage it is an advantage brought about by better racing equipment rather than a real world impossibility.
This is the same as my previous point about a similar advantage you may have when racing from comfortable cockpit with the best view and Track IR and decent controls, - compared to someone in the same race that may be using a make do seat, with a laptop screen and keyboard.

The idea is to drive as realistically as possible no matter how good your equipment.
To get an advantage you buy better equipment as in real life, not to "cheat" by having a better but unrealistic view of the proceedings.

As I say - I don't mind how you drive when playing NFS as a game or casual event on a server.
But if I was racing in a league for points or if was racing
profesionally for cash, you bet I would demand FCV

Well we have fcv these days so lets just leave it at that shall we. The supposed realism freaks can stroke their egos over just how hardcore they are by sticking to fcv servers and others can still do their thing with marginally less realistic views if they so choose.
Removing chase view etc. from the game completely would be a bad move allround but I think the devs realise this and are unlikely to do it.
In the end it's physics which dictate how realistic LFS is and not which driving view anyone uses.

Edit: Cockpit view user btw

Quote from Trekkerfahrer :

here are my views and i think they are cockpit views as well, one gtr view i use for all closed cars and one i use for open wheelers

I'd consider those cockpit views

In the new patch there were some settings added to adjust the cockpit view (rather than having to use a custom cam) have you tried seeing whether you can recreate your custom view in the in-car view?