There is really no reson for removing any of the present views.

Can't you understand that you can use whatever view you like and let others use whatever view they like!
Don't come here talking about the realism, realism of yours.

Your realism talking is based on the fact that when you actually drive a car you are inside and the LFS's cockpit view is closest to that.
BUT you should mind that LFS is a game and I drive real car in the real world.
I know what cockpit is like in both LFS and IRL but ist's not like I want that view to be the only view in the GAME because I play a game and LFS is a simulator game but when you guys are talking about simulation stop for a while, forget the physics and think about the fact that those other views are simulations too.

In real world you can step outside of your car and look at it from different angles but in the game it must be simulated in the way that is right now present in the LFS so the cockpit only would be crippling part of a simulation if you think more about it instead if just hating every other views than cockpit one it makes sense that all those views are there.

Quote from Polyracer :

To get an advantage you buy better equipment as in real life, not to "cheat" by having a better but unrealistic view of the proceedings.

I don't see it that way. I think chase view is a good compromise between expensive equipment and realism. Ie: chase view itself is not realistic, but it gives a better peripherial view like multiple monitors, and this itself gives the feeling of realism, by providing something like that you have in real life. I agree, that the ability that you can also see ahead on the road much more is a clear advantage over cockpit view, and it doesn't have anything to do with peripherial view. But as I said, it's a compromise, and compromises are never perfect.

Quote from Iron :

I don't see it that way. I think chase view is a good compromise between expensive equipment and realism. Ie: chase view itself is not realistic, but it gives a better peripherial view like multiple monitors, and this itself gives the feeling of realism, by providing something like that you have in real life. I agree, that the ability that you can also see ahead on the road much more is a clear advantage over cockpit view, and it doesn't have anything to do with peripherial view. But as I said, it's a compromise, and compromises are never perfect.

I have no problem with that on a casual public server when racing for fun - each to his own I guess.
I'm not one for advocating the removal of chase view - nor do I think that they ever will in LFS, - though in true sims like NKpro or iRacing there is no option for any other view than Cockpit view.

The people who will race these sims will demand a level playing field from the software, - the hardware is up to the participants to worry about.
LFS starts at a more casual level which is good for getting fresh blood into the scene.
Its good that we have so much choice and things just seem to get better all the time.

Do not restict LFS only for custom view... Many of us uses this, it wouldn't be fair...REALISTIC...who cares...

Quote from RatzMilk :

I posted a thread about the new restricted views when using TrackIR and had a lot of people tell me that the new 90 degree viewing angle is more real and LFS is going for realism.

I pointed out that that this game still allows the Wonder Woman invisible car view, the Cherry Picker view from above and behind the car, both are which are straight out Arcade mode views, plus custom views from pretty much anywhere.

As many posters said that looking further around than 90 degrees was not possible in real life, I assume, they would also agree that the Wonder Woman and Cherry Picker views should also be removed, as they are not possible in real life either.

So, I would like to know, would people prefer:

i dont konw about you, but IRL in my car i don't see the dashboard, steering wheel, center console, shifter etc.

i always use the wheels veiw to make up for the loss of butt in the seat and steering wheel in the hands feedback.

its a game. its NOT real, never will be. and it will become unrealistic if you try to make it too realistic.

clutch for example.

Quote from mikespeed95 :

its a game. its NOT real, never will be. and it will become unrealistic if you try to make it too realistic.

It does not have to be a game, the racing is real, always has been, and becomes "more" realistic if you make the effort.

It all depends on your mindset, if you think of it as a game - then that is what it is (to you).
If you think of it as a simulation of a real occupation or pastime - then it can be a good substitute, I can get sweaty and nervous on the start line just as in real life, (I raced for real many years ago)

Just depends how seriously you take it.

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Totally agree mate, when racing any car i always use cockpit view always have.

I know you said it wasn't aimed at me, but i kinda feel i sparked it so im sorry. I just wanted an excuse to post this

It does my head in when people decide to make a thread on something as stupid as how you want to view your car, to make it more realistic. I mean i think the devs have more important things to do and it doesn't really matter i occasionally chnage view on a straight to see if i have enough room to swing across after and overtake.

Print screen: don't know why but i just got a screenie when i saw you say that, it was clogging up my computer so it needed to be used lol.

LOL that picture
Very true, people can play the game how they want, without needing to be flamed because of it.

Quote from Polyracer :

It does not have to be a game, the racing is real, always has been, and becomes "more" realistic if you make the effort.

It all depends on your mindset, if you think of it as a game - then that is what it is (to you).
If you think of it as a simulation of a real occupation or pastime - then it can be a good substitute, I can get sweaty and nervous on the start line just as in real life, (I raced for real many years ago)

Just depends how seriously you take it.

The racing is not real...never saw a death caused by a pile up in T1.
And i find very unfair not having a play seat, 37 inch TV and FFB Wheel super duper modded + 3 pedals...
If money is not an issue for you it might be for others, you may find very realistic using the setup you have.
Others views offer car feedback for users that have mouses, some pads and keyboards...
I have experimented racing with a wheel (not mine) with chase cam, and it was a very odd feeling, completly diferent from using a keyboard for instance.

Quote from fujiwara :

The racing is not real...never saw a death caused by a pile up in T1.
And i find very unfair not having a play seat, 37 inch TV and FFB Wheel super duper modded + 3 pedals...
If money is not an issue for you it might be for others, you may find very realistic using the setup you have.
Others views offer car feedback for users that have mouses, some pads and keyboards...

I dissagree, the only thing real about simracing is the racing, - you don't have to die in a race - in order to have a race.

The rest of your comment - well it pretty much agrees with what I have already written.

Quote from ajp71 :

I'd consider those cockpit views

In the new patch there were some settings added to adjust the cockpit view (rather than having to use a custom cam) have you tried seeing whether you can recreate your custom view in the in-car view?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure these views can be obtained my modifying the cockpit view, so you'd be allowed in FCV servers

Quote from ajp71 :

I'd consider those cockpit views

In the new patch there were some settings added to adjust the cockpit view (rather than having to use a custom cam) have you tried seeing whether you can recreate your custom view in the in-car view?

hmmmm, i tried it... it comes near to my views.... the only thing i cannot make is the height of my head

did not thought about, i just only copied my custom views from x to y ^^

open wheeler i have problems cause i cant see the mirrors with my favourite fov

Quote from Trekkerfahrer :

hmmmm, i tried it... it comes near to my views.... the only thing i cannot make is the height of my head

did not thought about, i just only copied my custom views from x to y ^^

open wheeler i have problems cause i cant see the mirrors with my favourite fov

I have that problem too, I just use the virtual mirror.

The argument about forcing a view has nothing to do with realism. It's about all drivers in the race having the same point of view. This means that everyone is competing on a more even playing field. That's it quite simply.
It so happens that cockpit view is the most realistic compared to real life, so in that way it is the most relevant choice. Talk about flat monitors and peripheral vision all you like, it doesn't change the situation one bit.

We have the option to force the cockpit view on a server so that all competitors are restricted to the same thing. This is fairer for serious racing. It is a server option and is not being forced on anybody, the host chooses it and people choose to race (or not) in that server.

As long as it remains a server-side option there should be no complaints about it.

Custom views from a cockpit perspective are mostly OK I think, but raising your head up so that you can see more of the track over the nose of the car is not realistic nor fair. Both arguments are pointless in this case. In a real F1 car for example, it is difficult to see ahead and to the side. There is no possibility to raise your head up as high as is possible in an LFS custom view. It is not easy to see out of an F1 car. That's one reason why they are challenging to race. But if you can just crank your neck up like Inspector Gadget, you are no longer being challenged by the cramped confines that you would expect in a car like that.

If that's how you want to race in LFS then good luck to you, I'm sure you'll have fun doing it the easy way and so you should have fun. But when you come across a server that has enabled the option of forced cockpit view, you have no reason to complain that you can't join that server. Options are good, they give us the flexibility to create the online racing environment that we want to create.

Not everyone wants or likes the same things, that's natural. If we all liked the same things you'd all be listening to Spice Girls right about now. Yuck!

^^^^Post of the thread award to Mr Gunn.

Well put sir!

To comment on the "chase cam gives you an unfair advantage" stance...

I used to use chase cam because that was what I had done in other games, and it was the only way I could "feel" what the back end of the car was doing. But, since the chase cam in LFS doesn't have a mirror and doesn't let you look right and left, I was loosing time being too careful not to bump into people I couldn't see - either behind me or to the side.

So I decided to switch to the "wheels only" view (not cockpit due to lots of the reasons that others have stated in the thread, i.e. my real windshield is bigger than 17" diagonal, etc, etc, etc) so I didn't have to tiptoe around traffic. After a few months, I was actually faster than I had been in chase cam. I found that the biggest adjustment was relearning all of the braking and turn in points from another angle.

I can see how chase cam would help if you've never seen the track before, but c'mon, I'm pretty sure the first turn at Aston National is a right-hand sweeper! It just looks different (not better!) from higher up.

I'm glad I don't use chase cam anymore because I can be more aggressive in traffic. If someone wants to use it and can use their Spidey sense to know where other cars are, great! If someone wants to run a forced cockpit view server, I'll either adjust or go somewhere else.

Quote from Danke :

i.e. my real windshield is bigger than 17" diagonal, etc, etc, etc)

Change your FOV in cockpit view to 110 or more(up to 120 max).
Then you wont have that problem.

I Just don't see why everyone has to like the same settings according to some people in this poll. First it starts out by flaming people who use chase cam, which is a ridiculous way to be an elitist ****, not cool man. Second, what about people who don't do serious racing? When I drift I use chase cam because the fun in drifting is as much the driving as it is just seeing it. To me, drifting looks pretty cool. No one has to be "on the same level" is those instances. As long as it remains a server option, fine. But this forum as a whole is getting quite Nazi-ish in regards to forcing certain preferences on people.

Quote from flymike91 :

I Just don't see why everyone has to like the same settings according to some people in this poll. First it starts out by flaming people who use chase cam, which is a ridiculous way to be an elitist ****, not cool man. Second, what about people who don't do serious racing? When I drift I use chase cam because the fun in drifting is as much the driving as it is just seeing it. To me, drifting looks pretty cool. No one has to be "on the same level" is those instances. As long as it remains a server option, fine. But this forum as a whole is getting quite Nazi-ish in regards to forcing certain preferences on people.

+1000!

i use cockpit view all the time, but i some times struggle when pitting so i use the chase cam to get in to the pit box, then back to cockpit view

Quote from ajp71 :

I want the option for anything other than the cockpit view to be removed from LFS whilst not spectating in all modes,

I want... I want... I want... If your mother could hear you talking like that... Anyway, Live for Speed is a computer program, not an exercise in social engineering, and I can't see any reason for fetishising the cockpit view in such an extreme way. Forced cockpit view is now a server option. Why do you want to force even offline users into your brand of subjectivity?

You're just weird...

Gun sumed this up pretty well, everything is said there. I personally really can't imagine someone racing with chase cam or what not and somehow find the way to "explain" themselves how they think it's more real and how they don't have a 17" windscreen in their real car, yada yada, i played on 15" LCD until recently, so what, cockpit covered tha half of it, but it still IS the most realistic view and there's no argument about that, but i certainly can't see why i should be bothered with how other people choose to play? I don't care really, if they like to fly above their car that's fine with me, i can't see how that could be advantage to them, and i would only be bothered if with those views some people can be faster than with cockpit, but i don't think that's the cae, if you se a WR holder driving with chase cam (can that be checked somehow) then you can scream how unfair it is, but i don't think you'll se one, so what's the problem?

Quote from Gunn :

The argument about forcing a view has nothing to do with realism. It's about all drivers in the race having the same point of view. This means that everyone is competing on a more even playing field. That's it quite simply.
It so happens that cockpit view is the most realistic compared to real life, so in that way it is the most relevant choice. Talk about flat monitors and peripheral vision all you like, it doesn't change the situation one bit.

We have the option to force the cockpit view on a server so that all competitors are restricted to the same thing. This is fairer for serious racing. It is a server option and is not being forced on anybody, the host chooses it and people choose to race (or not) in that server.

As long as it remains a server-side option there should be no complaints about it.

Custom views from a cockpit perspective are mostly OK I think, but raising your head up so that you can see more of the track over the nose of the car is not realistic nor fair. Both arguments are pointless in this case. In a real F1 car for example, it is difficult to see ahead and to the side. There is no possibility to raise your head up as high as is possible in an LFS custom view. It is not easy to see out of an F1 car. That's one reason why they are challenging to race. But if you can just crank your neck up like Inspector Gadget, you are no longer being challenged by the cramped confines that you would expect in a car like that.

If that's how you want to race in LFS then good luck to you, I'm sure you'll have fun doing it the easy way and so you should have fun. But when you come across a server that has enabled the option of forced cockpit view, you have no reason to complain that you can't join that server. Options are good, they give us the flexibility to create the online racing environment that we want to create.

Not everyone wants or likes the same things, that's natural. If we all liked the same things you'd all be listening to Spice Girls right about now. Yuck!

Here is what gunn had to say.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

I personally really can't imagine someone racing with chase cam or what not and somehow find the way to "explain" themselves how they think it's more real and how they don't have a 17" windscreen in their real car, yada yada

I don't think it's more real and I don't use it because of monitor limitations.

I simply use it because I prefer this view and I have more FUN driving in this view. If you can understand it or not. I don't have to "explain" myself.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

if you se a WR holder driving with chase cam (can that be checked somehow) then you can scream how unfair it is, but i don't think you'll se one, so what's the problem?

No problem - but then that is not what we are discussing.

Quote from zeugnimod :

I don't think it's more real and I don't use it because of monitor limitations.

I simply use it because I prefer this view and I have more FUN driving in this view. If you can understand it or not. I don't have to "explain" myself.

Totally agree, I`ll use it by the same reason.