Quote from MyBoss :

I agree, don't get me wrong, but I feel that a lot of unexperienced drivers blame others about their own mistakes too often.

In fairness, those issues are filtered out by the admins. Filing a report is just filing a report.

[edit] Importantly, if the person who complains IS wrong, we dismiss the report *with an explanation why*.. so wrongly filing a report can be regarded as absolutely part of the process too!

I don't accept the suggestion that our reporting system can be used for retribution. We don't give warnings and penalties because someone complains, we give warnings/penalties because someone does something wrong. If the victim of an incident chooses not to file a complaint, that is part of the process. If someone else witnesses the incident and chooses to file, then that is also part of the process.

The argument "I shouldn't be penalised because I didn't report THAT guy for ramming me 4 laps before" holds no water. At all.

Quote from SamH :

The argument "I shouldn't be penalised because I didn't report THAT guy for ramming me 4 laps before" holds no water. At all.

Then I guess pre-pubescent 'hyped-on-clean-driving connoisseurs' can go on with that reporting mindset without being investigated further themselves? Likewise, proof of them is needed for any other report or counter-report, but my god.... reporting is a sure-shot kill weapon if it is this narrow (e.g. Nothing done unless it is actually using the reporting feature ). Don't get me wrong, or view me as being a scrooge of this subject... this just frustrates me to see actions taken like this (and I base what I said earlier all on fact).

That's like saying Player A was crashed by Player B, and Player A reported it. Yet Player A violated rules on numerous accounts in so many other races, but nobody is going to (or can) do anything about it thereafter? It is most certainly not hearsay if Player B knows exactly when other incidents happened.

I am sure you review countless reports, and job well done of course... so I can understand if making such reports gets too complicated, it will just take up your time I guess

Quote from Tweaker :

That's like saying Player A was crashed by Player B, and Player A reported it. Yet Player A violated rules on numerous accounts in so many other races, but nobody is going to (or can) do anything about it thereafter? It is most certainly not hearsay if Player B knows exactly when other incidents happened.

Yanno, I just don't seem to be able to follow the logic. Are you saying that there's a situation where someone cannot report another driver?

If I can get back to the report against you, since I can only think this is what you're making references to, I must have failed to explain properly before.. just because you receive a caution in ONE report, this does NOT mean that Player B does NOT receive a caution in ANOTHER report.

Can we just try and establish that, if you fail to establish an overlap by the normal turn-in point into a corner, and run the car in front off the track, and then fail to wait for that driver to recover, that this is a fact that is not made less of a fact because the driver you collided with has driven erratically, earlier in the lap.

Unless you're saying that, because he was driving erratically earlier, that you were then within your rights to fail to achieve an overlap before the normal turn-in point for a corner, collide with him, run him off the track and drive off.

I'm having difficulty separating out the "he started it" mentality from your post, and I know that can't be what you're saying.. so I think I need you to explain it to me. Sorry!

[edit] Though I pointed this out before, I just need to reiterate that Player C reported you, not Player A. Player C also reported Player A for erratic driving and poor behaviour.

Quote from SamH :

I'm having difficulty separating out the "he started it" mentality from your post, and I know that can't be what you're saying.. so I think I need you to explain it to me. Sorry!

Sorry but, I wish I could curse on here....

I am ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, NOT SAYING THAT. Nobody is at fault for "starting" any of the foul driving, and like I've explained throughout, accidents happen, rules are learned. HOWEVER, from a standpoint of being someone under fire by quite a simple report and not getting any retribution or counter-claim opportunity against someone that is by far one of the SHITTIEST drivers I have ever seen on CTRA (and calls himself clean).... how do you think I feel?

I mean, sure I have a few nudges here and there, bad calls, everyone does? (And I don't care if I got a caution -- I am not in it for the points like a lot of frequent drivers are). But holy shit-stain, it is unnervingly obvious what needs to be done.

I thought I was done here, but that just about sums it up.

Okay.. let's sum up..

I totally understand how you feel

We don't really do counter-claims in CTRA, because we (the admins) deal with individual complaints, not from the viewpoint of the person who files the report but specifically as server admins - completely separated. Important, though.. read on..

FTR, because of the number of reports we process, and the number of replays we watch, it's not at all uncommon for us to raise multiple fresh reports ourselves, from observations we make in replays. Our admin system is very much geared up for this kind of thing, and it's a one-click new report. We DO raise reports on any misbehaviour we see, while reviewing replays. I've seen individual reports raised by one player spawn as many as 4 admin-raised reports before now. For all the effort I've put in to our public-facing website, our admin website is no less comprehensive. I sometimes wish I could show it off to you guys.. I really am proud of it.

Tweak, I don't want you to be left with a falsely poor impression of the CTRA servers. I don't know how to reinforce how meticulous we are about things, except to ask you to consider.. would we go to all this effort to build our system, to then throw it all away by glib and substandard admining? It's a rhetorical question. I promise you, we do try very hard to make the CTRA points that people earn actually count for something worthwhile.

I have one thing I would like to say to you, Tweaker.

It goes something like this:

REPORT OR STFU!
Why do people insist on whining and bitching about this stuff? Why can't they just file a report and let the admins do their job?

There, I said it and now I feel better. Thank you for listening.

I agree with the first post. I often get crashed out by people that can't overtake cleanly.

I ask people why nobody follows the 'Saying sorry' rule.

They said, 'This is race 1'

Its as if the rules don't apply because its an entry level server.

Accident - work out or report.


Eh, why cant people just have fun, driving is fun, but thats why the report system is there, because you can report it and let someone else deal with it, and carry on driving, Yay.

So why not get back off the forum and start driving.

I said driving alot there, *presses bind* sorry :P

Unfortunately he seems to have switched his PMs off, so I'll answer here:
Thank you for your message. It seems you have some issues but I wont go there. I still think all the whining about incidents is really stupid. You should just keep your cool and report it. That is what the report system is for.

Happy new year to you too.

Hmm getting pointless again. Common guys why do we need to throw shit at each other by using swearwords. It seems sam the swear filter isnt working properly .

Anyway before bashing each other any further close it Sam. This isnt about racing anymore.

Quote from March Hare :

Got this PM from Tweaker:
Unfortunately he seems to have switched his PMs off, so I'll answer here:
Thank you for your message. It seems you have some issues but I wont go there. I still think all the whining about incidents is really stupid. You should just keep your cool and report it. That is what the report system is for.

Happy new year to you too.

TBH, I don't believe that

Show us a picture of the message. I would never have though that Tweaker would do that

I agree Niall, that does seem a little odd. And Niels is totally right... this thread is going nowhere.. it should be locked now.

Well pretty much anything March says in response to me has always been negative and without understanding.... and then to tell me to STFU?

Bunch of CTRA noobs (yes you March) ganging up on me, fantastic.

So it does me great pleasure in saying something IN PRIVATE to him. And still, he doesn't understand me, so I am absolutely THRILLED that he goes and does this.... top marks to you March :up: :rolleyes:

@March Hare, PMs are called private messages for a reason.
Keep them that way.

It is quite funny on the other hand how many rules you violated by doing that too.
They go as follows, all of which can be found in the privacy agreement you agreed to when you made your screen name here.

Quote :

1) (sub) Your privacy is very important to us.
3) Live for Speed tries to keep their forum a clean place where common sense is the main guideline.
--
1) When I post a message on this forum, I will do my very best to write in a polite manner and not use foul language and / or insult an individual or group of people.
--
5) I realise that if I ignore this agreement, I risk being denied access to this forum.
-- Tip
Keep in mind that people usually mean well, so when in doubt, give people the benefit of the doubt and see their post in a positive manner. Doing so will make our forum a nice place to freely discuss anything you want (fully or remotely related to sim-racing), without the need for moderators to intervene.

Keep it clean guys.

Would like to have kept it that way but Tweaker seems to have added me to his ignore list before I could send him a PM. Real mature

Hmnnm, people are getting rather petty on this thread, is a shame

Quote from March Hare :

Real mature

You posted a PM by him in the forums and talk about maturity?

In the words of Shrek: "that'll do donkey, that'll do."

While I don't mind a thread discussing poor attitudes, I do mind one where those attitudes are on display. By continuing along this route you aren't painting yourselves in the best light. If there's any more unreasonable discussion then this thread is history.

If this thread is winding you up then either calm down and reason your way through a response or leave it entirely. In the spirit of kick-starting the thread: I think far too much emphasis is put on blame. Few people seem to be willing to admit an incident can be a mistake or poor judgement. Everyone seems to want to be whiter-than-white, which is a shame as it curtails the opportunities to learn from incidents.

There are those who don't learn, but do you think people are too quick to cry foul against someone who's just made an error?

Woooo, glad to see that the wisdom of shrek has helped again

i do have a bind, for "sorry", but use that one for little bumps and racing incidents. when two cars are going at it 100%, trying to fight for position, a little bump here and there can be expected. but I I were to cause a pile up, or crash out another car, then I would type in that I am sorry, and direct it to the person I affected.

I have been taken out a few times, and not gotten any apology from other drivers. only once or twice have I felt like making a report, but, didn't. I figured, they crashed, and are now out of the race too, that is penance enough, no need to make it a lot worse. it could have been an accident.

I have not been on the race 1 server in a while, but last time I was, I noticed a lot of drivers really being obnoxious, rude, and then calling other racers names, and just in general ruining the race. one reason I have not been back to that server. I like SS1 much better, most there seem to be polite.

NoPistons, personally if I'm in Race 1, I'm on a crackdown for reporting people who are obnoxious and rude. Also, just being encouraging to them to be quiet and just drive. Try and encourage them to just be calm and quiet is my technique.

I guess reporting people being offensive would be a good idea. But I am still such a n00b on the CTRA system, and did not want my first actions to be:
1: finish last of 24 cars
2: filing reports about racers acting like clowns

but now I think I would be more keen to do so. still a n00b, and still not all that good, but I now have a better handle on the rules and etiquette expected on the CTRA servers. but I have to admit, I have gotten a little testy at a couple of other racers for poor racecraft that takes me out, and it is frustrating, so I understand that there is some level of frustration that we all have to deal with.

I'm gonna close this thread. The title's still annoying me, and we're so far off track, if we were racing in LFS right now, we'd be in Fern Bay. And that's if we'd started off at Aston

Besides.. I have an idea..