Quote from Vesa :

You'll have to take into account that that road is as smooth as a babys bottom. No bumps in sight. That might account for a bit of the extra grip.

I'm not saying LFS has it right, because it doesn't. Just pointing out a detail.

What extra grip? Erh hem... That vid is running 15-20% less than the LFS super street tires on this baby smooth surface. Would you like to see what it looks like with less grip than that? Name your number

Quote from Blowtus :

I'm pretty sure 'real life' g's are always higher than skidpad tests...

Meaning...?

skid pad numbers are not an accurate representation of 'max' g values, for real world driving / racing. They're just something for U.S car mags to write about

Skid pad values show lateral acceleration at constant velocity. I.e., "trimmed max g." Untrimmed is nearly always a bit higher. You see the same thing in my vid where it sometimes hits 1g even though it does 0.93-0.95 on the skidpad. I don't see the point you're trying to make though or how it relates to anything here.

Todd, your sim is flawed. It has way too much grip on the grass. :thumbsdow
[/sarcasm] ;)

Seriously, judging things from a video is pretty hard, and until you release a test version of your mini-sim, no amount of arguing is going to prove anything
Remember all those "look, a comparison video between GT4 and RL. OMG driving around the cones looks soo real. Ergo GT4 = real." videos?

this might sound stupid but when you race these real cars do you slam the gas in 1st? i did that in my mum's car(1990 4WD Corola) and it span around! i got a good yelling from my mum. even in auto's my m8 was going down main street were doing about 40km/h he hamers it to get past the lights in time and takes it sideways. anyway the tyres are high performence road tyres not slicks/semi-slick if you put to much power into them expect them to spin!!! but hey that's wat i have picked up in the 4 mounths i have been driving.

I have attached a Vidio that will show how unrelistic the game can get, but this S2 is still prity young and there yet to relese a patch to fix all the phisics!

P.S. i'm a drift and it took me 40 mins before i could get a set working for drifting a FO8. i love to drift for fun but racing is always harder nomater wat any drifter says!

Quote from 50-3 :

P.S. i'm a drift and it took me 40 mins before i could get a set working for drifting a FO8.

:doh:

(Tristan take it easy on him.)

umm..

Welcome to the forums BTW! What kind of car gets sideways from a 40K roll-on? Obviously a car with some pretty decent power my friend! (dry pavement right?) And you spun a low powered 90's AWD car? How on earth did you do that????

hey, i spun a ford fiesta 1L you dont need power to spin just speed and lack of skill

No, but I assumed from his context he was talking 1st gear! Not much speed there!

Indeed back in the day I spun a Hyundai Pony, but that was a rainy night and purposely trying to drive a car w/ basically bicycle tires around a tight hairpin under FULL throttle LOL

Road conditions need to be taken into concideration in real life as well. We don't have trucks spilling oil and dumping diesel fuel all over the track in LFS. There's a certain local intersection around my place where I can burn the tires off on my undergeared Toyota Tacoma 4X4 4 cylinder in all 5 gears when I usually don't even have enough power to get out of my own way normally. It is alot of fun turning onto this road, slightly uphill, give it a goose in 2nd gear, kick the back end out, nail 3rd, get 'er spinning good in 3rd, then it's just nail 4th then 5th all the while with the tail hanging slightly out, speedometer reading round 100 mph, while I'm climbing the slight uphill at probably just over 20 mph. Not real good for the tires though .

Quote from mrbogeyman :

hey, i spun a ford fiesta 1L you dont need power to spin just speed and lack of skill

Me too... Although that was more of braking with one side on snow and the other on (very cold) tarmac with no anti-lock brakes and just a little too much of the brakes... Never did that again...

ROFL you've got to get that on video and post it LOL
EDIT @mrogers

Sorry Todd, somehow I misinterpreted your post as referring the skid pad numbers and suggesting lfs should have similar values. You're right, I was being irrelevant...
You did do a lot of typing to say that tyre modeling can cause large changes though

as far as im concerned, i've given LFS a good brake till somehting's done bout the tires mainly..until then , i stick to GTL and you'll find me at the ring with my stang shelby GT350 !

see ya ,

it was a dry day coming out of my driveway and put my foot all the way to the ground going from a dirt driveway to cement road. did a 180 then staled it.

See? Dirt!

Lol, okay, now get in the XRT, go on dirt, hold the wheel straight, and floor it.

Take 3 guesses what will happen

Quote from xapexcivicx :

Lol, okay, now get in the XRT, go on dirt, hold the wheel straight, and floor it.

Take 3 guesses what will happen

He'll do the 180, but it won't stall the XRT, see, very unrealistic, LOL .

Well, it's not our fault he didn't install the magical foot (aka. auto-clutch) in his car

Quote from jtw62074 :

http://www.performancesimulations.com/files

Right click and 'save as' ToddSim13a.wmv.

Forgive the horrendous graphics, but I've got to say the lack of g-forces in LFS is probably not at all to blame for what the OP is talking about. This vid is from my sim with a 3500 lb car and 350 HP running on tires that, get this, only pull about 0.93-0.95g on the skidpad. That's about 15-20% less grip than the LFS street tires, isn't it? And there's no downforce here at all to help things out. None.

55% of the weight is on the front tires and it's got a rather stiff differential too. The throttle is shown there so you can see where there's lots of full throttle corner exits at low speed and all that's needed is a little steering correction to keep it under wraps. I drove around for about four or five hours one night with this car or variations of it and don't recall ever accidentally spinning out when just trying to put in some aggressive, fast laps. With 500HP the car is still quite controllable on those tires. On slicks it's almost boringly easy to drive until you drop the weight to 2500lb or so. And of course there's no less g-force feel on this ugly thing than anything else I've driven on a PC :P

Methinks the difference in sims is in the tire modelling Fortunately Scawen is a sharp cookie and will undoubtedly improve this over time. I personally think the multiplayer is the best out there, although at the moment GTL gets most of my play time (aside from my own ugly sim, which gets a bit more, but I may be a bit biased )

I have to say todd, the physics of that sim look pretty good. looks as good if not better than LFS! any chance we could try it?

Yeah jtw62074 I also trust in Scawen's ablility and believe he will refine the tyre models greatly and I 100% agree about the best multiplay part

From your past posts it's obvious you have done a great deal of research yourself into this topic and know alot about it, so it's good to hear of your continued support of the LFS developemnt process, considering also you are developing your own sim
Would also love too see how you little project develops in the future too, I looked at several of the videos you posted there, it's obvious you put alot of work in already and does look promising

I'd like to see a vid with the same setup as 13a but with grip levels similar too wet weather or maybe even ice, just for curiosity sake

http://www.performancesimulations.com/files/toofast.jpg

Quote from BrainBT :

It's not a question of slicks, it's a question of reality.
Even with my girlfriend's seat ibiza I get more grip at low speeds than with the lfs GTI. And my Opel Astra Coupe seems to have glue on his tyres, if I compare it to some lfs cars (only in some situations, of course, the ones we were talking about)
I have to tell you that this is the first time I really show interest in a racing game (sim racing world), because I know this is (and will be) "The game"
What is the "slickmod"? (noob, remember)

You are absolutely right. No one real car react like LFS cars when you accelerate.

I hope Scawen does a great job with the next physics patch. Meanwhile I could recommend rFactor. It doesn't have the physics flaws. At least not that much as LFS at the moment. There the simple road going cars are a lot more controllable.

@brainBT I have the same car (Astra Coupé) and you are right with all the points. I think (hope) it will be fixed in LFS. Until then I play my recommendation which feels a lot more like an Astra Coupé physics

Quote from RIP2004 :

It doesn't have the physics flaws. At least not that much as LFS at the moment. There the simple road going cars are a lot more controllable.

Maybe not but it has other major flaws. Like the general "I can't feel that this car is attached to the road" feeling that you get when playing ISI engine based games.