Quote from AppiePils :

...we have decided that the Serbian Racing Team is allowed to change their car, rather than including the FXR in the balance issues and making the balancing issues too complex...

Just to be precise, will be possible for us to change our FXR for something else later in the league or just now before AS event?

The Testrace was really nice. Ray said that we will go down to 15kg extraweight.
@Chriskart: Ray said, that you can do 2.38 at the end of the stint with +20kg. Is that true? I only saw fapex who didnt hit the 2.39 at all.

GT2:
I would say it's very nicely balanced, the FXR is faster in the beginning (I'd say first 10 laps), then the XRR starts tp pull away slowly. Even though the FXR can do more laps (28 was the very very max for me) it's slowing down after lap 22 (getting a lot harder to drive) and coms closer to the beginning laptimes.

All in all the XRR was +8secs ahead after 31 laps (and also given that the SpeedCore who did a faster XRR stint yesterday: http://score.com.sapo.pt/LFSStats/Fusion_MoEtest.html ). I would say it's pretty much perfect now (23% restriction)

Quote from marecare :

Just to be precise, will be possible for us to change our FXR for something else later in the league or just now before AS event?

No, either change cars now and finish with that car the season, or stick to the FXR and finish the season with the FXR.

Quote from three_jump :

How often has your team been stuck in a gravel trap this season?

Of the 2 proper tracks, three times. All at KY3, one in the last corner, one midway round, one at the first corner. Had we had the magic FZR/FXR chassis (they dont both have AWD!) we wouldnt have lost over 4 laps, instead about 20-40sec tops.
We were about 4 laps down on the lead at the end, and it wouldnt suprise me that not only would we have finished on the podium, but i'd bet a couple of FXR's had a play in the sandpits and carried on regardless while finishing ahead of us.
I dont think there was an incident at WE1 though.

As for 'disconnections' wtf has that got to do with anything?? We're talking about advantages and disadvantages with the cars, Yours is damn slow, so we fixed that, but you wont acknowledge the amazing ability for all other GTRs to drive in and out of gravel as being an advantage, while the XRR cant.

'nobody forces you...' true, but then you can push knowing full well you have nothing to worry about you'll just drive out without a problem, and who's to say we'd be responsible for ending up in the gravel, whats to stop another team driving aggressive and nudging us in T1 etc, getting a drive-thru while we end up with -1lap? It could be one of the many impatient GT1 cars, even today i saw a couple of dodgy dives and only 1 of those needs to take us off, as it did at Westhill, and we receive a far bigger penalty than the culpret.


Eitherway, you'll have noted i havent asked for you to be given 30% restriction or anything like that, all i've said is maybe a more forgiving penalty for shift+p because really its excessive and unfair that we dont have this magic ability to ignore whats infront of us and drive through it like its grass while your cars clearly do. It'd only marginally help us, and only do that if/when an XRR landed in gravel, and if it isnt next to nothing then it wont be abused to get a free pitstop.

What happened to equality?? You've got yours, thats it now?

Quote from DreaF :

The Testrace was really nice. Ray said that we will go down to 15kg extraweight.
@Chriskart: Ray said, that you can do 2.38 at the end of the stint with +20kg. Is that true? I only saw fapex who didnt hit the 2.39 at all.

Hye man what I say isn't gospel, I just said that for the FZR to give you slowpokes an advantage that 15kg might be next looking at the results.

Although I was rather un impressed by the FZR drivers, only really saw Niki and Dave put any effort in, but I seem to remember Bas saying something to us about Chris being faster than we were in the first race with the XRR....Went something like "and Chris just jumping in the XRR and being faster than them, I don't think so"

Now what's happening? Most people quit and we were left with 1 FZR driver out of about 5 or 6.

Btw Dreaf, Chris had a 44.4 with 20kg of weight penalty, and when I done my 39.2 my first split was never under 44.80. And when you consider that this is still 1.5 seconds off the WR, it doesn't exactly make sense as the XRR last season ran 30kg more and could be only 2 tenths from the WR with no weight.

Do you think someone could do stats of the testrace please? Thanks

Edit: Yeah, Ray it was a bit disappointing to only see 2? FZR GT1's finish...

Edit 2: Yes, it's strange to see such a small amount of weight make a difference, but it really does. BTW my best first split was 44.76 iirc.

I'm getting an error running the stats (using latest version). However you can check the times using LFSworld.

Same here, it gets all the way to the end and then something causes the app to crash before its actually constructed the stat files. I ran it a 2nd time to see if it was a mistake and as a couple of cars had finished i clicked esc wanting the menu and it terminated the replay, however it still wrote the stats for all but the last minute or so, so 3rd time round i just made sure everyone had finished and then quickly quit, and it worked fine.

GT2
Taking sidi's 2nd lap to lap 24 (pit = 23), combining the total and dividing by the number of laps done (23) the average lap was 2:52.113

Doing the same for ThreeJump, 2nd lap to L29 (pit 28), divided by 28 laps gave an average lap of 2:52.364

I know Duck/Bio can go faster, and ive seen Spanky go quicker too, so i think those will be fairly accurate, 1/4sec advantage per lap isnt quite what i was expecting though, and with only 3 (?) days with the new balancing it wouldnt suprise me if they went faster (i suspect we will too, but minimally), infact the same can be said for the FZR cars in GT1 too, they're doing those results with about 3 days of work on the sets and in 7-10 days time they'll almost certainly pull back some time with more suitable setups which should be considered also. Maybe just a tiny amount of weight would get them more inline with what i think both groups would find amicable (0.5s), say 3-6kg?

I thought the turn-out for the test was pretty good, but there were too many retirements and still no true reflection of what the FZR class can do, we've held our own GT2 (4 in total now i think!) and while there hasnt been much in the way of a mixture of teams, IMO we've given a pretty good account of the XRR and T7R are the leading FXR team, and i think things are looking like needing minimal changes.

For me the test race wasn´t really fun. I never tried a whole stint over 20 laps and i´ve also never tried additional weights. So both things were new to me and i didn´t really know how and when to change my ARB and brake balance. But at least i was able to drive pretty consistant and without killing my engine like zockmachine did for example. Once, when i lost like 20-30 secs to you guys i had some pedal problems too. I really don´t know what happened there. I was coming out of the slow turns after split1 and when i touched the throttle a little bit, my car spun two times with full throttle as if i was about to do the turn flat, which i did not. So after that i was a bit confused and stopped for some seconds to see if there´s something obvious to see at my pedal. But i didn´t find anything and just continued. After that i recognized that my set needs a lot of work. It wasn´t really easy to handle in some of the turns and at the end of the stint my tyres became to cold. So i don´t really know what made me that slow the most, i think it was all, that i did my first stint there, the +20kg and the set Will be much better at the official race then

Quote from Bawbag :

quit and we were left with 1 FZR driver out of about 5 or 6.

Btw Dreaf, Chris had a 44.4 with 20kg of weight penalty, and when I done my 39.2 my first split was never under 44.80. And when you consider that this is still 1.5 seconds off the WR, it doesn't exactly make sense as the XRR last season ran 30kg more and could be only 2 tenths from the WR with no weight.

Ye, then tell me why are you now without +30kg even a whole sec slower than in patch X? O_o It is quite different now because of the r3 tyres. You can not compare this with last season.

No, actually the pace is allmost exact same in this patch than X, in X I reacon the XRR could do about a 2.38.6 or so, and i've done a 2.38.9....

Btw, i'm not comparing it to last season, i'm comparing it to the previous races of this season.

Well, if that's the case, then the FZR is nowhere, because in eTM (patch X) the fastest FZR was low 38, and there is no way you can match that now with R3's...

but u have 80kg less mate

But we all now have to use R3's... and it's 60Kg less actually mate

Quote from DaveWS :

Well, if that's the case, then the FZR is nowhere, because in eTM (patch X) the fastest FZR was low 38, and there is no way you can match that now with R3's...

Good! Because the XRR will struggle to do 38's to begin with, let alone low 38's - So what sort of times are you wanting to get?

Well, without the extraweight Jay did a 38,4. I think a middle 38 should be a possible target without extraweight for a FZR. Ray can do 38s now, so i think it is quite fair now!

Quote from DreaF :

Well, without the extraweight Jay did a 38,4. I think a middle 38 should be a possible target without extraweight for a FZR. Ray can do 38s now, so i think it is quite fair now!

? so the xrr laptimes are close to the fzr´s (without added weight) now? can somebody show a lap-chart? cant find anything on lfsw =/

Quote from DreaF :

Well, without the extraweight Jay did a 38,4. I think a middle 38 should be a possible target without extraweight for a FZR. Ray can do 38s now, so i think it is quite fair now!

Ray has only done one 38.97 with the XRR and you lot can already do mid 38's, how is this fair or balanced? I think jonesy has only done 39.0X too.

Quote from Jay :

can somebody show a lap-chart? cant find anything on lfsw =/

Click here for an overview

The linear lines shows the drop in pace. Lower is quicker.
- Note that I have not included the first lap as it removes some of the detail.
- Also note that I was only able to compare till lap 20 using the two fastest of the FZR data I could use, while lap 25 is possible with the FZR. Need more info for that. (Hint ;P)
- Also add 2min in front of each laptime as I have only used the seconds part to determine the difference in pace.

We're close to a final decision for GT1. For GT2 we will go with the 23% power restriction for the FXR.

Who's laps are being used to create the averages and the fastest??
At least with the XRR its coming from the fastest team using it (they better be! :razz but the FZR only a fraction of the drivers have given results.

Also, on the last line, as i highlighted in post #61, the difference between laps is half what both Mercury & T7R have said seems a reasonable difference to balance them by (0.25 compared to 0.5, see posts #38 & #44).
23.5% would be fine but doesnt exist, which was why i suggested a minor weight change, either on their car or on ours if they used 24%

GT2

Quote from PaulC2K :

Also, on the last line, as i highlighted in post #61, the difference between laps is half what both Mercury & T7R have said seems a reasonable difference to balance them by (0.25 compared to 0.5, see posts #38 & #44).
23.5% would be fine but doesnt exist, which was why i suggested a minor weight change, either on their car or on ours if they used 24%

Not everyone in T7R thinks like Three_Jump .
I think 23% is a good decision.

Other things like "dodgy dives" or GT1 crashes (can happen to everyone) has imo as much to do with almost equal cars as a bag of rice.

And the statement that the XRR is harder to drive is also just a matter of taste, no one was forced to use it but I reckon most did because they thaught it's more challenging or 'cause they always use it or just because it was faster then the FXR. It still is faster but not that much faster.
So we'll hopefully have a nice and clean race with lots of fights, no crashes, no people who get stuck in the sandpit and no unexpected disconnections.

The graph is GT1 only.

I don't completely what you understand with your second paragraph. I have the impression you're referring to the GT2 class in the second paragraph.
If you are referring to GT2: From our point of view the cars are pretty good balanced. We agree that both sides can make some improvements in speed, however, as the test race proved, individual qualities seem to determine the difference, not the car.

Quote from BBO@BSR :

GT2


Not everyone in T7R thinks like Three_Jump .
I think 23% is a good decision.
Not everyone in Mercury thinks like PaulC2K
Everyone else thinks 50% is a good decision doesnt make it balanced though.

Other things like "dodgy dives" or GT1 crashes (can happen to everyone) has imo as much to do with almost equal cars as a bag of rice.
Nonsense, sure they can happen to anyone, but YOUR car can continue on regardless, ours if pushed off the track has a very good chance of getting stuck in gravel and losing at least 3 minute, yours loses about 10 seconds! Yeah your right, completely insignificant.
On its own it has a decent chance of getting out, but in an incident the car is usually pushed off its path and the momentum isnt as great as it would on your own giving you a smaller chance of keeping the momentum going and dragging yourself out.
That is down to your car being unfairly able to drive through gravel, and its AWD if the FZR can do it too. Unfair = Unbalancing.
As i've said, it doesnt need balancing to fix it (it cant) however it should get suitable compensation on a Shift+P because while you carry on driving we lose >3min because of a f**ked up issue with the car. Explain to me why thats fair, especially if its not our fault? When its not your fault, you lose maybe 10-15sec, we lose >3min, its not fair, its a joke.


And the statement that the XRR is harder to drive is also just a matter of taste, no one was forced to use it but I reckon most did because they thaught it's more challenging or 'cause they always use it or just because it was faster then the FXR. It still is faster but not that much faster.
Its not a matter of taste, its a matter of fact! You guys picked the FXR cos you couldnt drive the XRR quick enough, no other reason. Likewise every other team in MoE with their selection.

So we'll hopefully have a nice and clean race with lots of fights, no crashes, no people who get stuck in the sandpit and no unexpected disconnections.
Hopefully yeah, and hopefully Cameron Diaz will get 10 years younger and walk through the door saying... you'll just have to use your imagination.

Quote from AppiePils :

The graph is GT1 only.

I don't completely what you understand with your second paragraph. I have the impression you're referring to the GT2 class in the second paragraph.
If you are referring to GT2: From our point of view the cars are pretty good balanced. We agree that both sides can make some improvements in speed, however, as the test race proved, individual qualities seem to determine the difference, not the car.

Yes Appie, i gathered that and my question was who are the drivers responsible for those ammusing stats? the chuckle brothers?

The 2nd paragraph was indeed refering to GT2. They're actually 0.2sec ave-lap slower (spotted a 2:52.16 amongst 2:50.3/4's) which IMO and the most vocal member of T7R's opinion is a little closer than it should be.