hyundai is one company I didn't look at.

But I'm sure there's something else going on, passing gear comes to mind. But then agian, Hyundai are odd cars. After changing the oil on one I'v realized auto makers sometimes have lapses in judgement.
But I won't get into that.

edit: how did you judge that it was locking? did a diagnostic computer tell you?
I remember using a diagnostic computer a couple months ago to diagnose traction control problems and there was a TCC entry on screen as well, I didn't know what that was an abreviation for at the time, but I remember it never came on, and we where in a sunfire.
We put that thing through hell testing it, repeated WOT acceleration and than mashing on the brakes at 70+km/h

Hate to interrupt this fine conversation, but you guys are getting far far off-topic. Not that I complain, this is a good conversation. Maybe a moderator should move this thread to more proper place (As this is not an improvement suggestion any more) and possibly rename it correctly (For the same reason).

Carry on, you gear-heads.

Quote from DragonCommando :

But I'm sure there's something else going on, passing gear comes to mind. But then agian, Hyundai are odd cars. After changing the oil on one I'v realized auto makers sometimes have lapses in judgement.
But I won't get into that.

No, there is nothing else going on. It's an electronically controlled 4 speed, and there is no passing ratio. It will however do things like remember your driving habits (fuzzy logic) and adjust shifting points and TPS input tolerance and so forth. I also generally change the oil, and didn't run into any problems . Only a baboon would strip the threads, really.

Quote :

edit: how did you judge that it was locking? did a diagnostic computer tell you?

It's dreadfully easy to tell when it's locked on my car. It will lock up at WOT in 3rd once revs are around 3800, which causes them to drop to around 3550. The car will then not shift into 4th if you hold WOT, but stay locked up in 3rd until 6300rpm @ 187km/h.

Going up too steep of a hill in 4th will cause it to:
-come out of 4th lockup
-decide if enough torque is available from increased engine output, despite the now slipping converter
-if not, downshift to 3rd, and then invariably lock the converter within two seconds of the downshift, probably assuming that the extra 1700 engine rpm will put you into a usable torque output area, and if not, too bad anyway.

At lower speeds (like 60km/h in 4th), you can feel it engage mildly with a small jolt and even some driveline rubberbanding, and with very light throttle application you can feel the firings like you can with a manual (since it's around 1600rpm at 60km/h). Of course, anything more than very mild throttle inputs will have it come out of lockup at that speed, resulting in an rpm increase of around 500 (more than in my last example since the converter is of course not stalled at 1600rpm).

After reading this thread, my opinion is that you should probably quit trying to save face, pull your head out of your ass, and admit that not every car on the market is the same.

Quote :

We put that thing through hell testing it, repeated WOT acceleration and than mashing on the brakes at 70+km/h

Remind me never to bring my car to that shop for anything

I KNOW it was the TCC on my Civic. Gear 3 is only good to about 75 MPH or so, after that it's in gear 4. It accelerates for a while, but once you get to 4000 RPM or so in gear 4 (and you are going very fast at that speed) it locks the TCC and you can both see it (RPM DROP) and hear it (Short RAM Intake ) but the car continues to accelerate slowly. If you are stupid enough and you have a long enough road you can hit 115 MPH in the 92-95 Civic, which is the speed governor. Fortunately, other people have confirmed that, so I didn't have to. :P

According to the manual, the ECU determines the time to activate the TCC locker, which seems to be the limit of the ECU's influence on the gearbox, other than the safety that keeps idiots from going into gear 1 at highway speed.

Quote from DragonCommando :

I talked to my boss about this today, He's worked for several auto makers, such as Honda. And he basicaly confermed my statement, the TCC WILL NOT lock when the TPS (throttle position sensor) reads 100%. For it to lock the VSS (vehicle speed sensor) would have to report a speed of 255mph.

Very nice,

However there are very different types of auto-boxes. Most of them using a torgue converter. Modern torgue converters will lock up at full throttle and sufficient revs of the engine. It feels like a clutch, speed going up and engine speed going down at about 3,5k rpm usually and stays locked. If you keep the pedal down, lock is also engaged in next gear. Good example is the auto-box from carisma 1.8 gdi which always lockup as soon as possible, but never when accalarating from low rpm's, simulating a real clutch.

However, i believe everyone wo says some torgue-converters do not work like that. Also electronically auto-boxes can even behave differently with only a software update.

Also there are auto-boxes which are really manual gearboxes with a robot attached to it. Also there are automatices with two clutches and robitic systems in it.

Anyway, who cares about how fast auto-box is, a real racing car has a manual gearbox, sequential or semi-automatic. And the last one is usually the best.(not voor some road going cars which an do gear-changes very sloowwww "cup of cofee" speed gear changes..)

One last note, real auto-boxes are not always much worse then the manual version. Usually this is in small cars with very small engines. Higer class cars with auto-boxes are usually 0,5 sec to one sec slower from 0km/h to 100km/h then manual. Boxes with two clutches are usually faster then a full manual gearbox.

Let's just get this back on topic, my system at work tells me one thing, and than people who actualy drive the cars tell me something different. I realy don't know what to belive now, especialy after the 1996 F350 page saying that TCC at WOT is an uncommon activation instruction.

I still don't know why they would sell kits to make it do it, if it already does it on its own. Thats what realy puzzles me about it, they even sell torque converters with bigger clutches to prevent slipping for racing applications.

On the note of the Hyundai. I wasn't talking about striping threads, I was talking about the oil filter, on the Hyundai I worked on, you had to lift the car, unscrew it, and than drop the car to take it out from the top. It was too big to fit past the sub frame from the bottom, and you coulden't unscrew it from the top. I can't remember what model it was, but I hated how close everything was, there was very little room to get tools into places they needed to go. It just seems that the enginers that designed it didn't think people would change the oil filter.

On topic now.

A DCT is something that would be interesting to see in LFS, It would make for some serious fun. (I know, I'm a demo player, so don't bother)

I think realistic autos wouldn't realy be worth the time though, It's just something else that would be cool for a bit, but because they are slower, even by half a second, people would just choose manual after the novelty wore off. The same woulden't happen for DCTs because only one or two cars would use them, I coulden't see an XRG with one, it would be pointless.

However, having the auto would give those on a quest for more speed an incentive to learn to drive manual! Plus those people that find manual gear changes too confusing or mind-boggling get to use the auto. Problem solved.

Quote from Gekkibi :

Who would use automatic transmission in a race?

There are automatic manual transmissions (AMT).

Formula 1 cars in the year 2002 (and 2003?) used fully automatic shifting (mechanical gear boxes with computer control of clutch, ECU, and and gear shifts).

VAG offers dual clutch transmissions (DCT) in these cars: Volkswagen (Golf/Rabbit/Golf Plus, Jetta, Passat and Touran), Audi (A3 and TT), SEAT (Altea, Leon and Toledo) and Škoda (Fabia, Octavia and Superb) models.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin-clutch_gearbox

Lancer Evolution X also offers a dual clutch option:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_Clutch_SST

DCT's aren't allowed in Formula 1, so they have switched to seamless shifters.

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/42017

Zeroshift has announced their seamless shifter for use in street and sport cars. I don't know if or when a car manufacturer will use a zeroshift or similar AMT.

http://www.zeroshift.com/transmissions.html

As you said - they are MANUAL transmissions, controlled automatically. They are NOT auto boxes, which (as I'm sure you know, but somehow forgot in this context) are very very different inside. Do not confuse the two. And don't bring in talk about DCG (no matter how interesting the topic is) when talking about automatics, as they are chalk and cheese.

In fact, the only useful bit of your post (that isn't either contradicting yourself or irrelevant to the topic) is the first line under the quote. No wonder you always annoy me when you post, because it strikes me as you know some stuff, but have no idea when or how to write it. And you LOVE links to other websites and pointless videos. Drop it, for our sanity, please.

The technology for a DCT is different than a "slush box" type automatic, but it is a "automatic" in the way it's used, which is why I mentioned them in this thread. DCT's could be called the "automatic" of the future, but they've been available in passenger cars for over a year.

Getting back on topic, considering the fact that auto-blip and auto-cut were just removed, I seriously doubt LFS will have an auto-shift feature, unless it starts including cars that represent real cars with modern automatic manual transmissions.