Another hopefully brief diatribe by me (not sure what that word means or if it's spelled correctly, but i like to give Tristan reasons to poke fun at me 
)
First off, you seem to be assuming i'm a non-christian
Then you berate me (although pleasantly) for using scientific reasoning to disprove Biblical events, yet in the quote below you ask me to prove the ark is technically impossible to build. Just exactly how am i supposed to do that without quoting scientific data ?
Ok, i'll try.
The worlds largest wooden building is something called the Superior Dome (according to google) Do you think it would float ?, It's apparently 530ft in diameter, which oddly enough is approximately the same length as Noah's Ark (depending on which definition of a cubit you use). and, just for reference, the smallest measurement for a cubit still has the ark being at least 450ft long.
The largest wooden ship built which can actually be verified was approx 360 ft in length. Problem was, it didn't float, it wasn't seaworthy.
The largest wooden ship built (again verified) that didn't have a metal re-enforced hull or bulkheads was approx 330ft. An American schooner called Wyoming. This DID float
and WAS seaworthy, and was actually used for a while, until it was taken out into rough seas. Then they discovered that the shear length of it caused the hull to flex so much that the timber joints would twist and buckle and invariably let the water in. So to keep it afloat, the water had to be constantly pumped out, luckily for the crew, water pumps had been invented by then as this was in the early 20th century. Unfortunately, it sank in 1924 in heavy seas and all hands were lost.
Ok, so you may say Noah would have assigned someone to man the pumps in the Ark. How many of the eight people on board do you think would be needed to pump out the incoming water by hand on something approaching the size of that Super Dome thing posted above ? for the entire time they spent in the ark, one whole year. In freezing temperature, in storms the like of which this world has never seen, twenty four hours a day.
You may say, "well God must have used his supernatural abilities to make it completely water tight", he could have, he's God, he can do that if he wants, how can i prove otherwise ? Then why couldn't he have used his supernatural abilities to rid the world of all these unpleasant sinners that had come to grieve him so much. Why use the very naturally occurring concept of death by drowning. He could have simply clicked his fingers, or perhaps more accurately, spoken the words and boom, no more nasty people. What had the animals done to upset him so much, and had the plants turned to follow a different God ?, why would he want to kill everything ? If it was to rid the world of sin, then it sure didn't work !. And why even do it in the first place when his plan right from the outset was to send Jesus to atone for the sins of everyone, past, present and future ?
Ahh man this is such a huge topic, there are so many different ways i could take this and so many topics i could mention, but i'm trying to be brief.
Lets talk about the water, but lets not get into where it came from, or where did it go. Lets discuss the volume, time to get your calculator out again. (maths has never been my strong point so please feel free to correct any errors)
The radius of the Earth is approx. 6370km
The height of Everest above sea-level is approx. 8.8 km
Therefore, the volume of the Earth is approx. 1,082,696,932,000km³, or 1,080 billion cubic kilometers.
The volume of the earth to the height of Everest is 1,087,190,293,000km³
Subtracting the first volume from the second gives approx. 4,493,361,000, or four thousand, five hundred million cubic kilometers of water!
Also, this rain is supposed to have fallen within about 40 days. That means that there would have been about 220 metres of rainfall every day over the entire planet
(hehe sorry, but i cheated, dats an obvious c&p :shhh
But think about it, 220 metres of rain everyday falling from the sky. I can't even imagine what that must be like. The biggest downpour i remember was no more than a couple of inches in a few hours, and that was considered extreme weather, it actually caused structural damage. Think of 220 metres of rain pouring down in a day, on top and to the sides of the ark. It would have taken one hell of a beating. I'd imagine very similar to a police water cannon. And that would have lasted 24hrs a day for 40 days, non stop. Could a wooden structure take that much abuse ? Any engineers fancy having a go at calculating the force/energy impacting the upper uncovered deck of the boat ?
But i guess God supernaturally protected them, sure was a good day to be Noah.
Then, lets say they survived and found themselves on day 41 bobbing up and down on the ocean at 30,000 feet. Damn i bet that was a bit nippy, only natural gas from 30 million animals for central heating, and no land mass at all to calm the winds, and a 24hr day job of pumping out the incoming water, feeding the animals, cleaning out all the poop, stopping them from eating one another, exercising them (can't have them standing up or sitting in one location for a whole year, otherwise they'd develop pressure sores, which are not only very very unpleasant, but can be life threatening too, and you can't have a bunch of wild animals running wild on a moving boat, so they'd have to be supervised), praying seven times a day, making all the tradition offerings and sacrifices to God, getting some sleep, having a bite to eat, washing, etc etc . Was this salvation or punishment for poor old Noah and his Chinese children. (one of the eight on the boat must have been Chinese, where else could they have come from ?)
Seriously though, just think of the logistical nightmare of doing all of this with only 8 people, 4 of them women.
Here's something to think about, and it's only my personal theory/question, but what would happen to the earth if it mass was pushed out to a height of 30,000ft. Water is very very heavy, so wouldn't that mean a much larger weight was at the surface than the centre ?. Would that mean the earth would slow down (bit like when you're on a roundabout and you lean out, it slows down). And if it did slow down, what kind of problems would that create ? longer days, greater temperature differences from day to night. severe winds, increased electrical storms ?
I've started to ramble now so i'll leave this here, and make another post at a later stage. There's still so much i'd like to say, but i'm finding it difficult to condense everything into readable posts.
Later
p.s sorry, it's late and i can't be bothered to check for spelling/grammar/punctuation mistakes. But i did try very hard to cut out any scientific fact and dogma. It may not have been my best post, but all i'm trying to do is get you to look at these things from a logical, rational point of view, rather than "the bible said it happened that way, so it must be true
You are perfectly right in saying God is outside of nature and natural physical laws so therefore is not constrained by them. But unfortunately we in our fleshy little bag of bones and guts are constrained by them, we can't escape them, and neither can our boats, cars, planes, wallets, girlfriends, wives and lovers. God apparently created these natural laws, and if he suddenly decided to bend, twist and change them for our benefit, then where would that leave us ?
)First off, you seem to be assuming i'm a non-christian
Then you berate me (although pleasantly
) for using scientific reasoning to disprove Biblical events, yet in the quote below you ask me to prove the ark is technically impossible to build. Just exactly how am i supposed to do that without quoting scientific data ?Ok, i'll try.
The worlds largest wooden building is something called the Superior Dome (according to google) Do you think it would float ?, It's apparently 530ft in diameter, which oddly enough is approximately the same length as Noah's Ark (depending on which definition of a cubit you use). and, just for reference, the smallest measurement for a cubit still has the ark being at least 450ft long.
The largest wooden ship built which can actually be verified was approx 360 ft in length. Problem was, it didn't float, it wasn't seaworthy.
The largest wooden ship built (again verified) that didn't have a metal re-enforced hull or bulkheads was approx 330ft. An American schooner called Wyoming. This DID float
and WAS seaworthy, and was actually used for a while, until it was taken out into rough seas. Then they discovered that the shear length of it caused the hull to flex so much that the timber joints would twist and buckle and invariably let the water in. So to keep it afloat, the water had to be constantly pumped out, luckily for the crew, water pumps had been invented by then as this was in the early 20th century. Unfortunately, it sank in 1924 in heavy seas and all hands were lost.Ok, so you may say Noah would have assigned someone to man the pumps in the Ark. How many of the eight people on board do you think would be needed to pump out the incoming water by hand on something approaching the size of that Super Dome thing posted above ? for the entire time they spent in the ark, one whole year. In freezing temperature, in storms the like of which this world has never seen, twenty four hours a day.
You may say, "well God must have used his supernatural abilities to make it completely water tight", he could have, he's God, he can do that if he wants, how can i prove otherwise ? Then why couldn't he have used his supernatural abilities to rid the world of all these unpleasant sinners that had come to grieve him so much. Why use the very naturally occurring concept of death by drowning. He could have simply clicked his fingers, or perhaps more accurately, spoken the words and boom, no more nasty people. What had the animals done to upset him so much, and had the plants turned to follow a different God ?, why would he want to kill everything ? If it was to rid the world of sin, then it sure didn't work !. And why even do it in the first place when his plan right from the outset was to send Jesus to atone for the sins of everyone, past, present and future ?
Ahh man this is such a huge topic, there are so many different ways i could take this and so many topics i could mention, but i'm trying to be brief.
Lets talk about the water, but lets not get into where it came from, or where did it go. Lets discuss the volume, time to get your calculator out again. (maths has never been my strong point so please feel free to correct any errors)
The radius of the Earth is approx. 6370km
The height of Everest above sea-level is approx. 8.8 km
Therefore, the volume of the Earth is approx. 1,082,696,932,000km³, or 1,080 billion cubic kilometers.
The volume of the earth to the height of Everest is 1,087,190,293,000km³
Subtracting the first volume from the second gives approx. 4,493,361,000, or four thousand, five hundred million cubic kilometers of water!
Also, this rain is supposed to have fallen within about 40 days. That means that there would have been about 220 metres of rainfall every day over the entire planet
(hehe sorry, but i cheated, dats an obvious c&p :shhh
But think about it, 220 metres of rain everyday falling from the sky. I can't even imagine what that must be like. The biggest downpour i remember was no more than a couple of inches in a few hours, and that was considered extreme weather, it actually caused structural damage. Think of 220 metres of rain pouring down in a day, on top and to the sides of the ark. It would have taken one hell of a beating. I'd imagine very similar to a police water cannon. And that would have lasted 24hrs a day for 40 days, non stop. Could a wooden structure take that much abuse ? Any engineers fancy having a go at calculating the force/energy impacting the upper uncovered deck of the boat ?
But i guess God supernaturally protected them, sure was a good day to be Noah.
Then, lets say they survived and found themselves on day 41 bobbing up and down on the ocean at 30,000 feet. Damn i bet that was a bit nippy, only natural gas from 30 million animals for central heating, and no land mass at all to calm the winds, and a 24hr day job of pumping out the incoming water, feeding the animals, cleaning out all the poop, stopping them from eating one another, exercising them (can't have them standing up or sitting in one location for a whole year, otherwise they'd develop pressure sores, which are not only very very unpleasant, but can be life threatening too, and you can't have a bunch of wild animals running wild on a moving boat, so they'd have to be supervised), praying seven times a day, making all the tradition offerings and sacrifices to God, getting some sleep, having a bite to eat, washing, etc etc . Was this salvation or punishment for poor old Noah and his Chinese children. (one of the eight on the boat must have been Chinese, where else could they have come from ?)
Seriously though, just think of the logistical nightmare of doing all of this with only 8 people, 4 of them women.
Here's something to think about, and it's only my personal theory/question, but what would happen to the earth if it mass was pushed out to a height of 30,000ft. Water is very very heavy, so wouldn't that mean a much larger weight was at the surface than the centre ?. Would that mean the earth would slow down (bit like when you're on a roundabout and you lean out, it slows down). And if it did slow down, what kind of problems would that create ? longer days, greater temperature differences from day to night. severe winds, increased electrical storms ?
I've started to ramble now so i'll leave this here, and make another post at a later stage. There's still so much i'd like to say, but i'm finding it difficult to condense everything into readable posts.
Later
p.s sorry, it's late and i can't be bothered to check for spelling/grammar/punctuation mistakes. But i did try very hard to cut out any scientific fact and dogma. It may not have been my best post, but all i'm trying to do is get you to look at these things from a logical, rational point of view, rather than "the bible said it happened that way, so it must be true
You are perfectly right in saying God is outside of nature and natural physical laws so therefore is not constrained by them. But unfortunately we in our fleshy little bag of bones and guts are constrained by them, we can't escape them, and neither can our boats, cars, planes, wallets, girlfriends, wives and lovers. God apparently created these natural laws, and if he suddenly decided to bend, twist and change them for our benefit, then where would that leave us ?
