lol were can i find that movie?
lol were can i find that movie?
shenanigans
Bah Shenaigans
hey chaps, i'm going to run through safety car procedures with my teamies tonight and i was wondering if you guys have a setup for the FZ5?
Also, what advice do you have regarding the speed of the safety car?
Is it as quick as possible in the corners and say, 120mph on straights? or is it 80mph all the way round? etc
Also, what advice do you have regarding the speed of the safety car?
Is it as quick as possible in the corners and say, 120mph on straights? or is it 80mph all the way round? etc
We will attempt to have the SC maintain this speed throughout the lap.
I don't think we have a set setup, but you might try one of Bob Smith's roadgoing sets.
62! blimey, that's a sunday driver speed... 
Okay thanks for your advice. Thought that would have been in section J.
Okay thanks for your advice. Thought that would have been in section J.
We'll see how that speed works out in the test race, and if necessary we'll make a rules change to up it a bit for the season.
Shouldnt the cars be all balanced, so that when you choose a car it is choice of what car you WANT to drive instead of what car is the fastest..?
-Kenneth
-Kenneth
It always is what car you want to drive. The driver makes it the fastest car.
The balancing slows down the FZR so it is overall equal with the XRR. Both rear wheel drive and harder to drive at the limit than the FXR with it's 4WD. As has been said, the FXR is consider more of an entry level car. If you chose the FXR you chose it for stability not for race wins.
The balancing slows down the FZR so it is overall equal with the XRR. Both rear wheel drive and harder to drive at the limit than the FXR with it's 4WD. As has been said, the FXR is consider more of an entry level car. If you chose the FXR you chose it for stability not for race wins.
Bummer, but I figured it belonged in this thread.
Yes, sorry. We forgot to update it here. Thanks.
I don't quite understand how this works.
They both have the same HP per tonne, the XRR has more torque, and does longer stints.
Enlighten me how the FZR is faster?
They both have the same HP per tonne, the XRR has more torque, and does longer stints.
Enlighten me how the FZR is faster?
Lol... Presumably due to its (former) popularity?
In actuality, the Turbo lag of the XRR gives it a rather akward power curve/delivery, and thus the FZR (with its very linear power curve) is a bit faster in some circumstances.
As you correctly pointed out, the XRR can do significantly longer stints (i.e. latest MOE race) and uses less fuel.
And as one individual pointed out, "the 15kg isn't really enough to make that much difference," so why have it in the first place?
I'm actually a bit surprised at how well the fzr and xrr are matched up now. Pre-y with all the extra weight the fzr had to carry it really hurt it in the corners and it had to make that up on the straights, now they're both pretty even in cornering and straightline speed.
And the quali results vs. race results are kind of indicative of where the FZR hurts now. With the sequential vs. gated box we got toasted in quali while having a slight advantage in race pace. And although the XRR's still generally lighter on its tires, it's not a walk in a park getting it set up right, especially with the new physics. There are major balance compromises between what I'd optimally like to run and what I ran for the race to get good race pace.
And on top of it all, from the LOTA results last year this is an advantage XRR track in the race, just ever so slightly, but it's there. But that was pre-patch y.
And the quali results vs. race results are kind of indicative of where the FZR hurts now. With the sequential vs. gated box we got toasted in quali while having a slight advantage in race pace. And although the XRR's still generally lighter on its tires, it's not a walk in a park getting it set up right, especially with the new physics. There are major balance compromises between what I'd optimally like to run and what I ran for the race to get good race pace.
And on top of it all, from the LOTA results last year this is an advantage XRR track in the race, just ever so slightly, but it's there. But that was pre-patch y.
Ohh, I completely forgot to sub in the turbo lag part. I knew about the gearbox situation, just wasn't sure how much of a difference though. But, check this.
I did a lap on AS3 with both the XRR and the FZR, both with the WR sets.
I was like O.O when I saw the results because my XRR time was 7.5 seconds faster, before any restrictions.
I'm slightly new to my G25, but that's still quite the result.
I did a lap on AS3 with both the XRR and the FZR, both with the WR sets.
I was like O.O when I saw the results because my XRR time was 7.5 seconds faster, before any restrictions.
I'm slightly new to my G25, but that's still quite the result.
LazLow, that is you my friend, sorry. They are very closely matched.
Yeah, that's a pretty useless result considering there's no way in hell they're that off balance.
FZR is also generally known to be quicker than the XRR there, by a substantial margin.
Just compare wr's with FZR and XRR on same combo and you'll see..
Take for example AS3:
XRR: 1:40.78
FZR: 1:40.20
That's half of second difference per lap in race..
Just because the WR is half a sec faster doesn't mean the race pace is half a sec faster.... reason: FZR is using more fuel then the XRR...
So... if both cars are racing a 1 hour race, the FZR needs to carry more fuel then the XRR... is thus heavier then the XRR and will be a bit slower in comparison. Probably still faster then the XRR, but not half a sec per lap.
Not much heavier. The gap due to fuel is only a couple tenths per minute on an hour long stint's worth of fuel, and that's at the start of the race. As the stint continues that gap will decrease down to zero as the two fuel loads come closer together.
Now, in general I honestly don't see where this discussion is coming from right now. We've had two races so far, the fxr had a severe advantage going into bl gp, and the fzr a small advantage. This race the fxr couldn't handle the high speed nature of the course, and the fzr's had awesome quali pace but pretty much spot on race pace with the xrr's. You can't just look at two cars' power to weight ratios and compare how they'll perform on a track, there are far more variables than that. (Can't even really work with the current wr figures right now considering they're relatively new and their accuracy is not the level of precision required to look at race paces.) You can look however at how CD and us have been performing relative to each other considering we were in the same car last year and pretty evenly matched. And those figures say that there's nothing to be alarmed about yet. CD had a good 1st race and a bad 2nd race, we had a bad 1st race and a good 2nd race.
Everything you're saying is fine and true; however, nothing you say actually justifies the 15kg FZR pentalty. (also, you refer to FXR when I believe you mean XRR).
Essentially, pre-patch the cars admittedly (by Scawen's own admission) were not balanced, and thus the several balancing changes were enacted to smooth the field.
With the added gearbox modeling, as well as tire changes, patch Y went about creating a level playing field, from the source. The XRR's fuel consumption, tire wear, and sequential gearbox are there to counter the FZR's 1-lap speed.
Exactly as unfounded as you claim this discussion is, We are saying the balance is wrong as-is.
As the ballast is not enough to majorly disrupt the racing, it will go unchanged, and it is an advantage the XRR will enjoy throughout the season.
Essentially, pre-patch the cars admittedly (by Scawen's own admission) were not balanced, and thus the several balancing changes were enacted to smooth the field.
With the added gearbox modeling, as well as tire changes, patch Y went about creating a level playing field, from the source. The XRR's fuel consumption, tire wear, and sequential gearbox are there to counter the FZR's 1-lap speed.
Exactly as unfounded as you claim this discussion is, We are saying the balance is wrong as-is.
As the ballast is not enough to majorly disrupt the racing, it will go unchanged, and it is an advantage the XRR will enjoy throughout the season.
No, I didn't mix up any cars. The FXR was seriously quick at blackwood, although it didn't show as much in our league, while the XRR had major problems exiting the now lower speed corners that BL GP is composed of with its turbo lag w/o the advantage of awd. I'm saying you guys have seen two races, with pretty inconclusive results and are worried about the sky falling. We (or I at least) have incomplete data so far as to whether or not the new blackwood is a good representative track for balancing and I know kyn isn't a good representation of your average track.
I wonder whether FZR drivers really think they'd be more competitive than they currently are, were they driving XRRs.
I currently feel like an ass, and completely forgot about the other two races.
Feel free to go on, but the point has been made.
Feel free to go on, but the point has been made.
IGTC 2008 Season Car Balancing
(60 posts, started )
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