Well you have to admit that drifting takes a whole lot more skill than burnouts.

Quote from Ikaponthus :

What's the difference?

"Some people, for whatever reason, want to ruin tyres while driving sideways very slowly".

Since you keep answering yourself I guess I shouldn't aswer, but anyway - here's to the obvious:

In drifting the car is in motion and being actively controlled via steering, braking, gear selection and throttle to maintain an angle through a series of turns often relying on weight transfer (which is taken into consideration by the driver) instead of active and aggressive methods (i.e. handbrake) to initiate the drift - in burnouts the car is just about stationary and controlled via the throttle and brakes mostly to remain stationary and spin for as long as possible without moving (I assume that is the case - I am not sure as to the specifics, and if there are any).

Quote from Ikaponthus :

What's the difference?

"Some people, for whatever reason, want to ruin tyres while driving sideways very slowly".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNPD9nEPfZo ---> Yay. "Drifting" is really only one very small step up from this IMO. Same ballpark anyway.

^Demo racer, registered in feb 2008. Simply the guy could be just a flamer. Based on what he says I can't think about it in any other way.

I just hope you will never try going sideways in a car, because this could involve a serious accident if you believe it's a very small step from doing burnouts.

I will give you hovewer a hint for understanding the difference more(IF xaotik answer wasn't enough). Do you know what a weight shift control is?

edit: Ofcourse drifting looks easy as hell if you just watch masters. Here's how not masters do: http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v= ... aIuko&feature=related

Quote from March Hare :

Well you have to admit that drifting takes a whole lot more skill than burnouts.

Drifting off topic...

Anyone remember when Top Gear got three rocket scientists (real, proper bona fide rocket scientists with PhDs in Physics & the like) to see if they could do burnouts. iirc only one of the three managed it.

Quote from kamkorPL :

^Demo racer, registered in feb 2008. Simply the guy could be just a flamer. Based on what he says I can't think about it in any other way.

I just hope you will never try going sideways in a car, because this could involve a serious accident if you believe it's a very small step from doing burnouts.

I will give you hovewer a hint for understanding the difference more(IF xaotik answer wasn't enough). Do you know what a weight shift control is?

edit: Ofcourse drifting looks easy as hell if you just watch masters. Here's how not masters do: http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v= ... aIuko&feature=related

I never said it was easy.

But I will say it's MUCH easier than real racing.

Afterall, I drift by accident in LFS and when I muck around testing the physics and just having fun going sideways around the corners is not very difficult at all.

I've been playing racing simulators since before Grand Prix Legends and I'm still struggling to become what I would call a good racing driver.

But IIRC all the grannies could do donuts.

Was it Richard Hammond who couldn't drift when they had those drifters in Top Gear?

Quote from Ikaponthus :

But I will say it's MUCH easier than real racing.

Afterall, I drift by accident in LFS and when I muck around testing the physics and just having fun going sideways around the corners is not very difficult at all.

Well all's good then, at least now you know that if your racing career doesn't kick off you can always get by with dominating drifting competitions.

Quote from Ikaponthus :

Afterall, I drift by accident in LFS and when I muck around testing the physics and just having fun going sideways around the corners is not very difficult at all.

It's same as if anyone said. "I can just regain traction corners and race, not very difficult at all" I will repeat myself from my earlier post.

Quote from kamkorPL :

About the difficulty. I think mastering racing and drifting is both extremely difficult. Mastering racing is going with perfect lines(according to the situation in a race), getting perfect splits, getting perfect laptimes etc. Now while drifting imagine doing a perfect lap each time with maximum possible angles, best lines(super close to the walls etc) and best possible speeds with those lines and angles. In fact, I believe that mastering any kind of motorsport that involves driver a lot is super hard.

Now also imagine doing it perfect on "WR" level in tsuiso, and then with 3 cars train, and then with 4 cars train. There is a difference beetwen "drifting" and "DRIFTING", just like there is a difference beetwen "racing" and truely "RACING".

Hovewer if you believe you can do that easily, then you are more than welcome to dominate drifting competitions with 1st places(when some high-level league or championship starts).

Quote from Ikaponthus :

Rubbish? Please explain. To my understanding, tyres are designed to GRIP the road. If they were designed to slide they'd be made of something slippery. Almost everything about a tyre is to do with getting as much grip on the road as possible.

Sure, they can slide - and this can even be advantageous sometimes. But they're not DESIGNED to slide.

But gripping and sliding are simply properties of 'rubber': if a tyre was meant to grip without any form of give, with a clearly defined boundary between 'gripping' and 'sliding', then the tyre would be made of superglue or some other glue derivative.

You are imprisoning yourself within language...

Quote from xaotik :

Well all's good then, at least now you know that if your racing career doesn't kick off you can always get by with dominating drifting competitions.

Let's not put words in my mouth. I said it was easier than proper racing, I didn't say I personally could dominate those unique individuals who choose to practise it all the time. I'm sure they can "drift" better than me, and I'm sure I regard that fact with nothing more than slight indifferent amusement.

Fact is that I still find drifting around corners relatively easy. Maybe not to "pro standards", but it's hardly rocket-science. I'm sure you have to have a good feel for weight-transfer and wheel-slip, but these things are just the basics of proper race-car driving.

Quote from March Hare :

Now that was what I was after.
Thank you KamkorPL.

I only wish more drifters, and racers, were like you.

There are quite a few of the same kind around i believe.

@Ikaponthus:
I think everyone got it now... you think drifting is silly and pointless. Fair enough, that's your opinion. But to me it seems you weren't really that open minded about it from the beginning. Maybe it's just me, but i feel like you just want to argue with everybody who doesn't agree with your views, without actually being open minded about the subject... and that's not really an interesting way of having a discussion about something IMO.

Quote from March Hare :

What major modifications does a car need to be a "drift car"?
Apart from having:

• Been lowered
  
• Ridiculous amounts of camber
  
• RWD
  
• Dorifto graphics plastered all over

All this you can already do in LFS so why do many people want a "drift car" added to LFS?

Apart from the looks (spoilers, bodykits, wheels) maybe wider steering lock, different tire profiles and compounds, a rollcage...

I don't want to argue about it.

I'm happy for you guys to drive your cars around sideways. All the power to you, I wish you much success and enjoyment - just far away from the guys who want to engage in proper racing!

In fact, I'm glad you guys can do it! If you couldn't then LFS wouldn't be the great, realistic simulation that it is! So it's a good thing.

My personal opinion is that it's a bit silly, and I don't like the hyped up "bling" culture that goes along with it. And I'm perfectly entitled to have that opinion. Yes, that was somewhat my opinion when I made the thread, but I was also asking genuine questing, making an honest attempt to understand it a bit better but that achieved little except defensive dummy spitting.

Quote from Ikaponthus :

I was also asking genuine questing, making an honest attempt to understand it a bit better but that achieved little except defensive dummy spitting.

Excellent way of showing respect for the people who actually took time to take it all seriously even though the whole "drift vs race" topic has come up oh-so-many-times in the past, I guess they should of known better. Way to go - very considerate of you.

I just don't get that sort of mentality really and I see it quite often even in my other chosen hobby which is cycling. There the eternal pointless debate is "mountain biking vs road cycling" and again there are flame-baiting attempts from both "sides" that are pursued with such zest that it would put religious zealots to shame. Much like the "cockpit vs chasecam" and the "race vs drift" pseudodebates here (pseudo because they're not really debates - they're just all out bashing threads because quite simply there is nothing to debate) - luckily there hasn't been much time for "circuit vs rally" debates.

The latin saying goes "de gustibus et coloribus non est disputandum" and IMO people should try that more more and not waste their (and other's) time doing the opposite.

Just for the record: I don't much care for drifting competitions.

Quote from frokki :

Apart from the looks (spoilers, bodykits, wheels) maybe wider steering lock, different tire profiles and compounds, a rollcage...

btw, the bigger rims are to reduce side wall and tire flex... the cage is a safety measure

Quote from xaotik :

he statement that filled in for was "There's none [reason for not commiting suicide], other than it's regarded socially as being bad" - and I was merely being a smart-ass pointing out that another reason is that suicide is bad for the suicide's health.

Although being far-fetched and tongue-in-cheek it also appears to be a valid way of thinking of it because it's often fear of death itself or pain that stops people from suicide - which also are two prime incentives for the instinct of survival and maintaining good health.

There, I've just committed jokicide.

i cant figure out if youre taking it almost too far in messing with me or if you really missed that my tounge is every but as firm in cheek as yours

Quote from Ikaponthus :

Yes, skates are made for skating in big circles or little circles. And I'm sure all the other physical things a skater has to do is taken into consideration when those skates are designed. They would be the most practical tool for those skaters to use.

theres nothing practical about going in circles

Quote :

Drifting is not practical at all. It's forcing a car to do something it's not designed to do.

a car is designed to drive
driving sideways is just one way to drive

Quote :

Racing cars are designed to go fast around a track, they're not designed to slide sideways around a track.

which is probably the reason why drifters use cars built for drifting instead of ones built for racing

Quote from Ikaponthus :

Rubbish? Please explain. To my understanding, tyres are designed to GRIP the road. If they were designed to slide they'd be made of something slippery. Almost everything about a tyre is to do with getting as much grip on the road as possible.

read up on tyre physics before you call other peoples posts rubbish when they are in fact right
aside from being educational it has the added bonus that you wont make yourself look like a complete idiot next time

Quote from Ikaponthus :

Absolute nonsense!

right back at ya

Quote :

Racing is about getting from point A to point B as quickly as possible.

most racing is about going in circles without ever going anywhere in particular

Quote :

That is a perfectly practical objective. In fact, it's a fundamentally practical exercise!!

on the contrary
going quick enough to exponentially increase the likelihood of never arriving at point b is inherently stupid

Quote from Ikaponthus :

Afterall, I drift by accident in LFS and when I muck around testing the physics and just having fun going sideways around the corners is not very difficult at all.

as if going round corners with no line speed or consistency while keeping the car pointing forwards were hard

Quote from Shotglass :

i cant figure out if youre taking it almost too far in messing with me or if you really missed that my tounge is every but as firm in cheek as yours

But if I were messing with you would I not attempt to conceal it in a sort of seemingly serious argument? And wouldn't I leave a trace for others who are not biased like you (since you are taking part in the discussion) and thus have a clean slate to construct their thoughts on to pick up on and be amused at the poetic irony of you not realising I was messing with you?

End of Act 5, Scene 6: The Impromptu Soliloquy

Quote from Ikaponthus :

March Hare,

Mate, I am with you. I feel your pain.

I've asked countless times what's the point of drifting, and so far the best I've got is "fun", and "to see how sideways you can go".

well if you ask anyone why they race... it's because it's fun, and they want to see how fast they can go...

and as for practicality...it's simple, you want to get through the track as fast as possible, when you drift, you want to show how much car control you have driving the car past the limit... you are just a bigot, and we all are to some degree, we don't approve of certain things... like how i hate oval racing and croc's...

Quote from Agent248 :

If you want my opinion, racing and drifting are two different thing that can't really be compared. It's like saying figure skating shouldn't be at the olympic game because speed skating is way better.

Bad analogy. Drifting would be more like ice dancing or curling in the olympics. It should be up there with other popular sports, like ball room dancing, croquet, lawn bowling, shuffleboard, ...

A lot of us have their niche activities. Being in the USA, I've played the usual basketball, football, and some baseball, mostly before graduating highschool. I've driven motorcycles since I was 14 years old (56 years old now). I also have been involved in some "niche" activities: trampoline, flying rings (example video, I could only do double flips, not a quadruple like this guy quad.wmv), and table tennis. I'm still drive a motorycle (Hayabusa), and I fly radio control gliders at a local slope site (jr126.wmv) and at a flat field using a high start (jrartms.wmv)

Quote from JeffR :

Bad analogy. Drifting would be more like ice dancing or curling in the olympics. It should be up there with other popular sports, like ball room dancing, croquet, lawn bowling, shuffleboard, ...

A lot of us have their niche activities. Being in the USA, I've played the usual basketball, football, and some baseball, mostly before graduating highschool. I've driven motorcycles since I was 14 years old (56 years old now). I also have been involved in some "niche" activities: trampoline, flying rings (example video, I could only do double flips, not a quadruple like this guy quad.wmv), and table tennis. I'm still drive a motorycle (Hayabusa), and I fly radio control gliders at a local slope site (jr126.wmv) and at a flat field using a high start (jrartms.wmv)

i thought that figure skating WAS ice dancing, but that's all good, cuz, they both require skills...

Quote from atlantian :

i thought that figure skating WAS ice dancing

In ice dancing, there is a pair of skaters, no jumping allowed, no lifts above the waist, no seperation of skaters (except for a few seconds). In the compulsory rounds, all pairs do the exact same ice dance routine to the exact same song. It's amazing that the judges don't go insane from the repetition. It's the equivalent of ballroom dancing, but on ice. Imagine watching and hearing this this 32 times in a row:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCeEr1bU5wI

Quote from JeffR :

In ice dancing, there is a pair of skaters, no jumping allowed, no lifts above the waist, no seperation of skaters (except for a few seconds). In the compulsory rounds, all pairs do the exact same ice dance routine to the exact same song. It's amazing that the judges don't go insane from the repetition. It's the equivalent of ballroom dancing, but on ice. Imagine watching and hearing this this 32 times in a row:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCeEr1bU5wI

meh, still requires more coordination then ice speed skating

Quote from srdsprinter :

Simple:

Those who can, Race. Those who cannot, Drift.

XD i can race aswell that im able to drift!

why do people drift? quite simply because it's often more fun.

people get too caught up in the prestige of being fast and forget what going around a corner fast is about, its about adrenaline and having some fun, somthing which drift is able to acheive just as easily if not easier.

at this point i would like to point out that a lot of D1 drivers also race in the national Japanese racing class Super GT, so for those thinking drift doesnt require as much skill, well you are simply wrong.

if you think any old idiot can do things like these then your just plain old ignorant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8-NF7sXgEo

and this isnt restricted to top level competition, this is just a local competition:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsTBEXlu_Fg

or even just a practise day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w4bqfGdFLg

or how about even just some locals in the hills:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiYqY2MNM54

i have done both in real life, and i definately have taken much more of a liking to drift, simply because of how fun it is and how you can gauge your improvements much easier.

I love how everyone is showing drift videos to show how "difficult" it is to drift. The only thing videos show is that cars can go sideways.

Plenty of race footage out there of racecars going sideways as well.