Quote from Woz :

Not the cars fault but that is how sterotypes work

Exactly the same thing as with Harley Davidson motorcycles.
Drive one and you are instantly seen as a member of a motorcycle gang.

A few bad apples ruining the fun for the rest. But in the case of drifting it's a whole bunch on mindless dorks who ruin it for the few.
Only a few top drifters and millions of teenage dorks doing handbrake turns and power sliding.

The reason racing is not affected as well is the amount of media coverage it gets. You see racing on TV all the time but there is rarely a show about drifting on. So people have a pretty good hunch what racing is about. But drifting "knowledge" comes from the movies.

@K. Tsuchiya
Thank you for the drifting article. That was a good read.

Quote from Woz :

That is what I am saying. The morons on the road acting like gits is what has given the sport of drifting a bad name. They are the cause of the problems and WHY there is the friction.

For many they hear drift and they just think about the hoons they see around them. Many would not even know that D1GP and the like exist. For them drift = cnuts on he street killing people. Is that hard to understand?

I assume you just saw the name the Skyline has gained and as you have one took offense. Sorry but you have to admit that cars like the Skyline, WRX and Evo attract the wrong sort. Not all owners are like that but that does not matter when it comes to reputation does it, all owners gain the reputation. Does not matter if its fair, thats how society works I am afraid.



Again, it was not a put down it was saying WHY it is popular because to many it is more easy to get into than an 8 hour enduro race.

I can enjoy watching a good battle or just a good solo drift, as I stated. You have to admit though that the "public face" many see IS the problem and why drift has gained a bad rep. Just like the Skyline for many has a bad rep. Not the cars fault but that is how sterotypes work

It will change but its a new sport and this always happens. I was snowboarding from very early days and you should have seen the shite I experienced on the mountain because the association with the majority of boarders which were as much a bunch of young cnuts with no respect for other as the street are racers today.

haha yeh, probably could have read it through a bit better. and beleive me, i understand how most imports carry the hoon tag, and for the right reason, i dont whinge or complain that i get stereotyped as a hoon for what i drive as it is justified in a lot of cases unfortunately.

Quote from nisskid :

as it is justified in a lot of cases unfortunately.

Just make sure you yourself don't enforce the stereotype.

Quote from nisskid :

haha yeh, probably could have read it through a bit better. and beleive me, i understand how most imports carry the hoon tag, and for the right reason, i dont whinge or complain that i get stereotyped as a hoon for what i drive as it is justified in a lot of cases unfortunately.

Don't worry. I have been writing code for 30 years. I don't even deal with GUI's any more, prefer to work below that level. Because of it I can be very terse and direct with my words. Easy to read what I posted in many ways when I look back at it lol

Quote from March Hare :

Just make sure you yourself don't enforce the stereotype.

mm, i try not to, unfortunately im not going to preach here as im not innocent, but at least when i do go out i go deep into the hills or in the industrials, its a hell of a lot better than doing it around the suburbs and in the city, as far as safety goes as well as giving us a bad reputation, i guess my main issue is people doing it in populated places where people including cops see this behavior and form their opinion of us. around the cityi try and drive as carefully as possible for these reasons as well as the fact that my car is highly defectable.

once again, this comes back to how peoples perception of drifters and imports forms, they see these people in the city revving their engine and putting their foot down out of a corner, this is what the majority sees, these people dont drift, the people that drift are away from populated areas or on the track and are rarely seen by the majority of people. hence people form their opinions based on the wrong people.

Quote from 5haz :

The hate of most things, including drifting/racing is often caused by ignorance IMO, those that slag off drifting/racing probrably don't know anything about what they are talking about, therefore they go by well overused stereotypes, coming to the conclusion that all drifters are 11 year old kids that can't drive, plus you don't have to be just a drifter or a racer, can't we be both, or does it satisfy some primitive human need to be in a certain group and slag off the other group in an effort to make yourself feel supierior? Who knows?

I race because I enjoy the rush of getting a lap perfect and getting a new personal best/race win.

I drift because its a rush when you pull off a drift perfectly.

Both racing and drifting require a high level of car control, if you look hard there is nothing wrong with drifting and racing, its just some people love to be snobbish and look down on others, and therefore pick on drifting

What worries me is that theres a class system where certain 'groups' of people are thought by many to be below others by the 'master race' of supposedly supierior racing s2 liscensed users, (a.k.a Drifters/Demo Racers), didnt something similar to this happen in Germany in the 1930's/1940's??

Good Post.

Quote from March Hare :

A few bad apples ruining the fun for the rest. But in the case of drifting it's a whole bunch on mindless dorks who ruin it for the few.
Only a few top drifters and millions of teenage dorks doing handbrake turns and power sliding.

I guess in Finland at nights and days you see tons of mindless dorks handbraking around the corners on streets. That sucks for you man, really. Though here in Poland thank God I don't see it. In fact most drifters go to local legal trainings organised on closed circuits/airports etc. And 90-95% of drivers during events are great/awesome guys. They help each other. They even lend each others cars if one can't compete, because of a mechanical failure. Not to mention lending tires, helping in general etc. It really is a great atmosphere. There are also drivers in poland that came to drifting from rallies/racing and they are doing awesome drifting.

In International Drift Challenge the drivers are awesome and very mature guys(Often old, who are former racers or racing instructors at school, or just plain drivers who try to compete at motorsports. Such a variety of drivers, that's what makes drifting awesome. You don't have to be proffesional to get into it - ofcourse there are licenses like Pro etc. but that's another subject.

Some random pictures of drivers from driftingo.eu site:

http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp ... 3f165805616_800_600_w.jpg
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp ... 0cf055df6d6_800_600_w.jpg
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp ... 4f8e80b11bb_800_600_w.jpg
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp ... 547b122dc75_800_600_w.jpg
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp ... fe0341e68fd_800_600_w.jpg
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http://driftingo.pl/__temp__/3 ... fd7f2f289f5_800_600_w.jpg

I think the problem is that people with no knowledge of drifting see someone burning tires or doing a donut and assume that this is "a drifter". But that's not how it is. If you know a bit about drifting and ever been to real event you will easily see a difference beetwen a drifter, and a lame driver.

People seem to see a lame driver and right from the beginning assume it's a drifter.

But tell me March Hare, what is your experience with drifting in real life. Where have you seen drifting so far? Because I just can't imagine this bunch(millions) of mindless dorks, who ruin it for few. It sounds like you saw 90% dorks and 10% drifters. I really can't understand this.
Those arguments that talk about most of drifters being idiots, ruining it for few just seems to me like imagined arguements that are based on 1) imagination, 2) youtube videos, 3) what most lfsforum members say.
I was on many drifting events from summer till fall/winter in different countries like Poland, Hungary, Germany and never saw things being like people who believe in sthereotypes to be.

Please tell me what exactly(facts) your opinion is based on.

Quote from March Hare :

Exactly the same thing as with Harley Davidson motorcycles.
Drive one and you are instantly seen as a member of a motorcycle gang.

LOL... This is really all about perspective, because if you were to tell me you ride a Harley, I would immediately picture you as a middle-aged man with a beard, a mortgage, and a slightly embittered view of women that has blossomed since your last failed marriage... an event that probably explains your large country and western CD collection.

Then I would immediately put the image out of my mind, and get on with listening to your REAL story.

I wouldn't introduce myself to you by letting you know what a loser I think you are, nor would I repeat that thought with every attempt to make contact with you.

Quote :

I assume you just saw the name the Skyline has gained and as you have one took offense. Sorry but you have to admit that cars like the Skyline, WRX and Evo attract the wrong sort. Not all owners are like that but that does not matter when it comes to reputation does it, all owners gain the reputation. Does not matter if its fair, thats how society works I am afraid.

@kamkorPL
nice drift pics, where are the pictures of the cars drifting?(seems like an afterparty...) and where u in any of the pics?

and @Woz...why did you list 3 AWD TURBOCHARGED vehicles as drift cars? drift cars are Front Engine RWD's and typically start out NA

the skyline has gain a name because it's a great car, it has been used as track cars and race cars, hell, it's even better then the porsches! and the Evo's and STI's are just popular among touge racers because they give monstrous grip compared to other FR's and FF's

people rarely, would destroy a perfectly good car by "unhooking" the front wheels and making it a RWD

Quote from atlantian :

and @Woz...why did you list 3 AWD TURBOCHARGED vehicles as drift cars? drift cars are Front Engine RWD's and typically start out NA

I didnt. The Skyline is RWD (In most formats anyway) and is a very popular drift car. And one the whole drifters DO like Turbo cars.

Quote from atlantian :

the skyline has gain a name because it's a great car, it has been used as track cars and race cars, hell, it's even better then the porsches! and the Evo's and STI's are just popular among touge racers because they give monstrous grip compared to other FR's and FF's

The Skyline might be a good car, I never said it wasn't, but it gained the name Clit (See earlier post) because of the people it attracts.

I Never said the EVO and WRX were drift cars, I just said that the Skyline, WRX and EVO all have a VERY VERY bad reputation because of the people they attract. You see one on the road and 90% of the time you know it will be some wanabe street racer/drifter cnut behind the wheel.

The "general public" does not care if these poeple are drifters or street racers, they see them all the same. A bunch of cnuts with no respect for other people putting other peoples lives at risks.

okey, fine i ment that power is good, but it's not the first mod you would do to your car if you want to drift. and i ment the GTR, sorry.

and off topic, please don't use the c-word so freely, it is a very effective swear word, because barely anyone uses it, and the less someone uses the word, the more offensive it becomes, we want to keep it offensive so that we would have an "emergency" word to fall back on, if you would... the more you use it, the more it becomes acceptable, and then... you will have to start making up swears, like "jibber-jabby" or "fu*k-head" or "head-fu*k"

Quote from kamkorPL :

I guess in Finland at nights and days you see tons of mindless dorks handbraking around the corners on streets. That sucks for you man, really. Though here in Poland thank God I don't see it. In fact most drifters go to local legal trainings organised on closed circuits/airports etc. And 90-95% of drivers during events are great/awesome guys. They help each other. They even lend each others cars if one can't compete, because of a mechanical failure. Not to mention lending tires, helping in general etc. It really is a great atmosphere. There are also drivers in poland that came to drifting from rallies/racing and they are doing awesome drifting.

In International Drift Challenge the drivers are awesome and very mature guys(Often old, who are former racers or racing instructors at school, or just plain drivers who try to compete at motorsports. Such a variety of drivers, that's what makes drifting awesome. You don't have to be proffesional to get into it - ofcourse there are licenses like Pro etc. but that's another subject.

Some random pictures of drivers from driftingo.eu site:

http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp ... 3f165805616_800_600_w.jpg
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp ... 0cf055df6d6_800_600_w.jpg
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp ... 4f8e80b11bb_800_600_w.jpg
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp ... 547b122dc75_800_600_w.jpg
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp ... fe0341e68fd_800_600_w.jpg
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http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp ... 02dc4b35660_800_600_w.jpg
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp ... 9a4350bf04a_800_600_w.jpg
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http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp ... 3300dd48a8f_800_600_w.jpg
http://driftingo.pl/__temp__/3 ... fd7f2f289f5_800_600_w.jpg

I think the problem is that people with no knowledge of drifting see someone burning tires or doing a donut and assume that this is "a drifter". But that's not how it is. If you know a bit about drifting and ever been to real event you will easily see a difference beetwen a drifter, and a lame driver.

People seem to see a lame driver and right from the beginning assume it's a drifter.

But tell me March Hare, what is your experience with drifting in real life. Where have you seen drifting so far? Because I just can't imagine this bunch(millions) of mindless dorks, who ruin it for few. It sounds like you saw 90% dorks and 10% drifters. I really can't understand this.
Those arguments that talk about most of drifters being idiots, ruining it for few just seems to me like imagined arguements that are based on 1) imagination, 2) youtube videos, 3) what most lfsforum members say.
I was on many drifting events from summer till fall/winter in different countries like Poland, Hungary, Germany and never saw things being like people who believe in sthereotypes to be.

Please tell me what exactly(facts) your opinion is based on.

Polish drifters are well-skilled I have to say. Do you know any of the Hungarian ones? POL-HUNs used to drift in one series, such as KoE ( King Of Europe) Europeans will quickly keep up with the Japos

Quote from atlantian :

okey, fine i ment that power is good, but it's not the first mod you would do to your car if you want to drift. and i ment the GTR, sorry.

and off topic, please don't use the c-word so freely, it is a very effective swear word, because barely anyone uses it, and the less someone uses the word, the more offensive it becomes, we want to keep it offensive so that we would have an "emergency" word to fall back on, if you would... the more you use it, the more it becomes acceptable, and then... you will have to start making up swears, like "jibber-jabby" or "fu*k-head" or "head-fu*k"

No worries. I ended up having to use because it was required to highlight why the name was such. Prob ended up using more than should have

Quote from atlantian :

@kamkorPL
nice drift pics, where are the pictures of the cars drifting?(seems like an afterparty...) and where u in any of the pics?

and @Woz...why did you list 3 AWD TURBOCHARGED vehicles as drift cars? drift cars are Front Engine RWD's and typically start out NA

the skyline has gain a name because it's a great car, it has been used as track cars and race cars, hell, it's even better then the porsches! and the Evo's and STI's are just popular among touge racers because they give monstrous grip compared to other FR's and FF's

people rarely, would destroy a perfectly good car by "unhooking" the front wheels and making it a RWD

most drift cars are FR, most probably start out turbo when u consider most are turbo imports, theres still actually quite a few drift cars that started AWD, such as the evo, subby, even a few GTR's going around, all converted to RWD obviously, especially in D1 where the rules restrict AWD cars. theres actually a GTR currently being pulled apart and made into a drift car for our national comp over here, but usually u just see them stick with the GTS-t and put a bigger RB in them, once u have a RB25+ in a GTS-t, theres not much point using a GTR instead for drift as ull pay near double for the GTR and you will have to do more work to take out the front drive.

Quote from March Hare :

You should really work on your reading comprehension. Way to go

Its called sarcasm.... you of all people should understand it, but I understand english may not be your first language.

I don't see any difference between so called "dorifto" graphics and regular racing liveries but apparently our views are very very different. I don't need to be double dared to find many posts of yours full of condescending remarks towards...pretty much everybody who doesn't agree with King Hare.

btw, i would think that AWD "fad" drift cars are restricted to top level competitors, since, why the hell would you pull apart a perfectly amazing[-ly expensive] sports car if you are "just a guy"?

Quote from kamkorPL :

Please tell me what exactly(facts) your opinion is based on.

My experience with drifting is limited to the following:

• Icy carpark in the middle of the night over 10 years ago. The handbrake and power slide thingy which really isn't drifting but what very many youngsters do and call drifting. Though then it was only called having fun. None of us even knew there was something called drifting.
  
• Watching Initial D. This is the first time I came to know the term "drifting".
  
• Got myself the Keichi Tsuchiyas Drift Bible. Thoughts at the time of seeing were: Oh shit! You have to learn the racing line to do this properly.
  
• Trying desperately to drift in LFS. Yes, I can go sideways but the control isn't there. I do save myself from time to time with a "drift" as I tend to overshoot my braking points.

My antipathy towards some elements of the drift community have risen from:

• Countless threads about wanting a "drift car" added to lfs. You can drift any car with minimal mods. LSD being the most important. Lo and behold! LfS already has LSD!
  
• Countless threads about NOS, bodykits, wings etc. I think the only really good Impr.&Sugg. thread related to drifting was the 45 degree steering lock one. At first I was like "what for?" then after your post detailing the reasons I was for it. Then some dork (a demo drifter iirc) started spoutin some insults and the like and I changed my mind.
  
• The constant bickering about whether drifting is racing or "just" a motor sport. Yes the racers that take part in these are just as stupid. Me included. If someone thinks it's not racing then why do you care? Many of you say you do it for the fun. Have fun and don't give a -uck about what other people think. Some people think playing computer games for fun is stupid. Some think that driving RC cars is stupid. Yes, so? I think both are fun and I don't give a fetid dingo's kidneys what you think about it.
  
• Many drifters are always on the offencive if anyone dares to question their über 1337 skillz. Even if someone asks a perfectly legitimate question.

Quote from nihil :

Then I would immediately put the image out of my mind, and get on with listening to your REAL story.

Exactly! You would do that but many don't.
For the record I don't have a HD or any other motorcycle. I just like a vehicle to have atleast four wheels.

Quote from flymike91 :

I don't see any difference between so called "dorifto" graphics and regular racing liveries

Read the following sentence and make sure you comprehend it too:
Neither do I.


Post too long to root out typos and grammar errors.

I think it's perfectly legitimate to not like drifting.

In my opinion it's just a bit silly and immature. But more off-putting than that, is the whole "bling bling" fast'n'furious culture the surrounds the "sport" too. That crap is so far removed from real driving and real racing it's not funny.

However that doesn't mean I dislike all "drifters". I dislike what they do, but I'm sure many of them are nice blokes and we could be friends. I accept that different people like different things.

I don't mind "drift" related stuff being included in Live for Speed either as long as it doesn't impact on the serious-racing aspects of the simulator.

Each to their own, and I can understand the appeal to a limited degree. I like to do burnouts and doughnuts too when I'm bored (which I know is much easier than so called "pro drifting"), but it holds my attention for about fifteen seconds. Drifting is only mildly more impressive IMO. Each to their own. I'm not going to pretend to like it or pretend I find it impressive. I don't. But I also don't care if people do it in LFS or even in real life as long as they don't do it on the streets, in which case they're effing idiots.

I think that's fair.

Ok guys... nice to read all that stuff but I think you're not getting to the root of the question so here we go: The real fascination with drifting is this

http://www.flickr.com/photos/c ... in/set-72057594075505709/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/c ... in/set-72057594075505709/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/c ... in/set-72057594075505709/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/c ... in/set-72057594075505709/
http://www.moviesonline.ca/mov ... yo_drift_purple_babe2.jpg
http://www.toysnjoys.com/dvds/fireitup.jpg

I think is a bit fascinating, isn't it?

March Hare: I am speechless now that you said what your dislike is based on. I am very speechless. Your whole idea of disliking drifters is often based on immature kids responses on lfsforum and is purely based on internet. I'm sorry to say it and don't feel offended, but this is just ridicilous.

Quote from RocksGt :

Ok guys... nice to read all that stuff but I think you're not getting to the root of the question so here we go: The real fascination with drifting is this

http://www.flickr.com/photos/c ... in/set-72057594075505709/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/c ... in/set-72057594075505709/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/c ... in/set-72057594075505709/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/c ... in/set-72057594075505709/
http://www.moviesonline.ca/mov ... yo_drift_purple_babe2.jpg
http://www.toysnjoys.com/dvds/fireitup.jpg

I think is a bit fascinating, isn't it?

Indeed. Same thing with tuning (I guess tuning and drifting goes hand in hand...), for example GTi-magazine: Full of half-naked women. If I am going to buy a car related magazine, I do want to see cars, not hookers... Same thing with car events.

Quote from Ikaponthus :

I think it's perfectly legitimate to not like drifting.

In my opinion it's just a bit silly and immature. But more off-putting than that, is the whole "bling bling" fast'n'furious culture the surrounds the "sport" too. That crap is so far removed from real driving and real racing it's not funny.

However that doesn't mean I dislike all "drifters". I dislike what they do, but I'm sure many of them are nice blokes and we could be friends. I accept that different people like different things.

I don't mind "drift" related stuff being included in Live for Speed either as long as it doesn't impact on the serious-racing aspects of the simulator.

Each to their own, and I can understand the appeal to a limited degree. I like to do burnouts and doughnuts too when I'm bored (which I know is much easier than so called "pro drifting"), but it holds my attention for about fifteen seconds. Drifting is only mildly more impressive IMO. Each to their own. I'm not going to pretend to like it or pretend I find it impressive. I don't. But I also don't care if people do it in LFS or even in real life as long as they don't do it on the streets, in which case they're effing idiots.

I think that's fair.

god your so far from anything remotely resembling truth I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry, i saw your intro thread and thought you seemed like a good bloke, but you certainly are the epitome of ignorance when it comes to this subject.



also, if i read correctly you're coming back to Australia soon? if so throw me a PM and i will let you know about the next drift event in your local area, you will pay between $10-$20 entry, but i beleive it will change your view forever on the sport.

Quote from RocksGt :

Ok guys... nice to read all that stuff but I think you're not getting to the root of the question so here we go: The real fascination with drifting is this

http://www.flickr.com/photos/c ... in/set-72057594075505709/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/c ... in/set-72057594075505709/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/c ... in/set-72057594075505709/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/c ... in/set-72057594075505709/
http://www.moviesonline.ca/mov ... yo_drift_purple_babe2.jpg
http://www.toysnjoys.com/dvds/fireitup.jpg

I think is a bit fascinating, isn't it?

omg, models in motorsport??? unheard of!!! :O

Quote from nisskid :

god your so far from anything remotely resembling truth I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry, i saw your intro thread and thought you seemed like a good bloke, but you certainly are the epitome of ignorance when it comes to this subject.

Geez. What do you want me to say? I don't like it, it simply doesn't appeal to me. Sorry. Like I said in my post that is "so far from resembling truth", That doesn't mean I don't like other people who like drifting. I'm sure they're great guys. Not my cup of tea. No offence! How can my post not resemble truth? It's just my opinion and I assure you it's true!

Quote :

also, if i read correctly you're coming back to Australia soon? if so throw me a PM and i will let you know about the next drift event in your local area, you will pay between $10-$20 entry, but i beleive it will change your view forever on the sport.

Zero interest mate. Thanks anyway. You knock yourself out.

I must add, I have no problem with people disliking drifting, just as long as they have a valid reason why, not just because theyve been lead by all the stereotypes.

Sadly, due to the efforts of the creators of Fast 'n' Furious, and EA Games, the majority of people now think all drifters are also wannabe gangsters, shame