Quote from rjm1982 :

Then how come other servers who check for passengers don't have that problem?

On a fresh LFS install, the RACE_S setup on the XFG fails with the passenger error on CTRA server and not on other servers that check for passengers (with other methods?).

Regardless of the cause of the bug, its a bug...it disrupts gameplay negatively, and its intended purpose is rather weak to begin with...there is no reason they should choose to inconvenience so many people for such a small thing.

So many people? Err Sorry if your running with a default setup maybe CTRA isn't a server for you and I don't know of that many people that have problems. Just the noobs.

Quote from SamH :

If anyone else knows of an alternative byte to the passenger byte in IS_NPL, lemme know

What information do you get, a byte with the cumulative number as passengers, or the 'bit array' directly from the set? If the latter, the work around isn't too difficult. If the former, I don't see what you can do.

Quote from Bob Smith :

What information do you get, a byte with the cumulative number as passengers, or the 'bit array' directly from the set? If the latter, the work around isn't too difficult. If the former, I don't see what you can do.

// Passengers byte
// bit 0 female
// bit 1 front
// bit 2 female
// bit 3 rear left
// bit 4 female
// bit 5 rear middle
// bit 6 female
// bit 7 rear right

Surly, if you just ignore the rear middle? Isn't that the "buggy" passenger? None of the CTRA cars, can have a mid passenger (afaik)?

Only the XRG, XRT, RB4 and FXO.

The passenger setup problem is only experienced by XFG drivers, isn't it? Which can't have a middle rear passenger. So if I detect passengers, I spectate, unless it's a middle rear passenger in an XFG, in which case I ignore.

^^ Yep

Smashing! I'll code up this afternoon, once I get my computer room back. It's been stolen by the cleaner at the moment

Thank you very much gentlemen, I've bagged it once and for all!
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=715141#post715141

I'm very much still learning, here! I haven't been a programmer since I left school and got a job with a bank writing COBOL.. your support is invaluable!

I'm glad it's fixed, I will probably start racing again.

Sam...I will appologize for being a prick. I stand by my opinions, but my delivery was snide and very rude. I'm fighting the flu right now, and am a little snappy. I do appologize.

The CTRA system and servers provide good races (yeah, I'm a noob with the tin-tops still...I can drive the wheels off of a formula car, but I can't race a tin-top to save my life...and when trying to learn with it, spending alot of time making a setup in single player to just be able to be competitive and stable (ie, not wrecking someone on accident), then having that setup rejected because of a bug...was frustrating to no end.

I'm happy you fixed it (and hey, if I hadn't have started something, maybe it wouldn't have gotten fixed just yet because it wouldn't have gotten the extra attention....nahhhh )

Thanks.

No sweat Joshua, I was also tired and grumpy

And yes, I agree.. I had assumed that everything that could be done to capture the error and work around it had already been done. My bad! A little bit of extra attention and digging found the solution, and once found it was a simple thing to address. All sparked by you

Onwards and upwards, see you online!

As you see these coder dudes need a kick in the arse from time to time.

Quote from March Hare :

As you see these coder dudes need a kick in the arse from time to time.

I know... I am one.

I need, and get...that kick often enough...

Ahh! I'm officially not a programmer. I've inherited the InSim application code behind the X-System. The new features and enhancements, and the old bug-fixes are often a venture into the unknown for me. I'm not doing too badly, I don't think, for a graphic/web developer, but very often the changes in the X-System involve a new venture along a programming learning curve. Nothing's insurmountable, though, if you're determined enough

As long as Sam doesn't let me take my title as "Application Coder" and put it to use, the X-System is safe.

Just as a curiosity...

Is the source to the x-system available, or is it completely closed source? Frankly, I'm rather curious to see the inner workings of one of the server management setups...

If it's closed, I completely understand (personally, im an Open Source / Free (as in speech) kind of guy ... strong linux connections and such) ... but I would really enjoy seeing how some of this stuff works...

It's close-source, I'm afraid

I preface this by saying that this is meant to be neither argumentive nor coercive.

I like to ask people this though...because I like to understand both sides of the coin...

(and, all and all, I don't know the setup of ctra and who makes the call, so you may be the wrong person to ask)

But why closed? (I won't be arguing or providing counter-points...I just like to hear people's reasoning)

And after this...I will stop sidetracking this thread...i promise!

Well, a couple of reasons for it not being open source, really. Firstly, I don't really believe in open source software as a base premise. That's an ethos, and neither correct nor incorrect, but still the perspective I hold on this project. There's no reason for it to be open source, when it's actually regarded by the team as proprietory UKCT software.

Secondly, the software isn't coded in a common language. It's not VB or a C variant but in Blitz. I only know of one other active LFSer, that hasn't been involved in the coding of the X-System, but who has used the same language. The X-System wouldn't really benefit from open source exposure and would just undermine the proprietory nature of the system.

Lastly, LFS wouldn't benefit from more CTRA clones right now. Unfortunately the userbase is already at full stretch and another CTRA-type licencing system would just dilute the community further. When S2 gets the exposure that going Golden Master will bring, the upsurge in new players may make clones more feasible.. but even then, that won't necessarily mean that it would be in the best interests of UKCT, CTRA or the community at large to release the underlying code to open source.

is there anyway to "sit in someone's car"? like spectate, exept you are viewing form the passenger seat, and there is actually a guy there, and the driver can see you?

Yes.
Hit the V-key.
When you have the custom view then go to Options/View and click the button that says draw body. Then adjust the X, Y and Z positioning to your liking.

I have it set up so it looks like onboard camera footage.

Quote from SamH :

Well, a couple of reasons for it not being open source, really. Firstly, I don't really believe in open source software as a base premise. That's an ethos, and neither correct nor incorrect, but still the perspective I hold on this project. There's no reason for it to be open source, when it's actually regarded by the team as proprietory UKCT software.

Secondly, the software isn't coded in a common language. It's not VB or a C variant but in Blitz. I only know of one other active LFSer, that hasn't been involved in the coding of the X-System, but who has used the same language. The X-System wouldn't really benefit from open source exposure and would just undermine the proprietory nature of the system.

Lastly, LFS wouldn't benefit from more CTRA clones right now. Unfortunately the userbase is already at full stretch and another CTRA-type licencing system would just dilute the community further. When S2 gets the exposure that going Golden Master will bring, the upsurge in new players may make clones more feasible.. but even then, that won't necessarily mean that it would be in the best interests of UKCT, CTRA or the community at large to release the underlying code to open source.

To further Sams response; The CTRA system consists of numerous components which all work together so making any one part available wouldn't really do much good.

With the code available to persons outwith UKCT there is also the potential security risk that it would present - we are still not entirley sure how efficient and secure the code is. As I believe is apparent by the random crashes Sam is still trying to work out, which was one of the reasons we were looking into C# for portions of the system.

The random crash bug is in the lap records, I never made the time to resolve it.

As for the source, if I decide to release X-System source I will, it's as simple as that.

Right now I do agree with Sam, it would undermine CTRA and not benefit LFS. Despite my disagreements with Sam I do still believe in the CTRA and what it stands for. I may be struggling to write this post without descending into personal insults, but until such a time as the CTRA stops offering a great place to get a high standard of pickup racing it really does have a prominent role to play within sim racing.

To be honest I dont see a time when sim racing would be benefitted by releasing stand alone clones of X-System. The only way I think it is likely to happen is if LFS is included in a multi-sim authority. That wont happen with the CTRA whilst its headed by Sam, so atm its the only way I would envision LFS/sim racing benefitting from a contender to the CTRA.

No, the CTRA is not considering extending into other racing sims at this time. It remains, and for the foreseeable future, exclusively LFS-only.

As for releasing UKCT's X-System code to the public, there is obviously nothing we could do, Becky, to stop you doing that. There's probably very little we could do to stop you, even legally, despite the fact that it's well-documented that the entire project belongs to UKCT. But seriously, no programmer in their right mind would make such a threat. It would be complete and utter present/future employment suicide.

Your talking as if I intended to Sam, not that you threatening my future employment is in the slightest going to effect my future employment.

Whatever you may think about proprietry rights, and the terms you contacted me over to demand when you thought advertising was going to happen, and the fact that I walked out on the project saying "if thats the way you feel have the lot then". The fact is I still believe CTRA is a good thing, despite its current management.

Remember that I am the only one of us two with the strength to try and make ammends rather than send abuse to a former friend in hospital, so i'm not out to hurt the CTRA any more than i'm out to hurt a gready capitalist.