As reference from Drift Bible the technique you are misunderstood with is the technique named by Keiichi Tsuchiya as "Power Over" using the power of the car to exceed tyre traction, induce wheelspin and initiate the drift.
These videos are definetly impressive but the reference i meant was centered towards a whole track of twin drifting those videos only demonstrate drifting on one single corner. The one i posted was consistenly throughout a track, then again may not be the best video as i mentioned above but still remains quite high.
and? pretty sure that didnt contridict anything i said. powersliding is a western term for power over (oversteer, aka sliding the rear end)
no what you showed was not a full track, it was a few judged corners like on Meihan. in D1 there have been a lot more runs just like the one you posted up, its nothing overly special.
oh and as for reference, its not called twinning in real life, its either a battle or group drift.
Again to be clear on what i said powersliding is a known racing entry technique for using the gas to spin the rear tires to corner into acute corners smaller than 180 or 90 degree turns then straightening out and correcting the angle before hitting the apex and speeding out of the corner. Drifting however, powerover uses similar characteristics with regards to using the gas to spin the rear tyres but the difference between them is that throughtout the corner powerover maintains the angle or gains more through the entry, apex and exit whereas powersliding is only used for the entry in racing to corner into acute corners like hairpins for eg.
From D1 Site Rules and regulations "rest of the tournament will be standard D1 "Tsuiso" style (Twin Drift.) The Tsuiso style randomly pits one driver against another in a 2-stage run." Twin Drift, Tsuiso, battle ect are the same and are terms all used in real life. Just for reference
Like i said, its one of the top, not the best, just a example, but it demonstrated more corners than a single one of your video.
Thought i'd give you a little reminder. Was a good idea you had there... but as it often happens when people have good ideas, they forget them again quickly.
lol, they are your interpretations of the term, pretty specific for a term which really doesnt share one common specification of it.
link? Twin might be an america transaltion on some sites of the word Tsuiso, but in most places it is considered a battle or "chase run", twin is commonly used in this game, but it's not commonly used in real life.
it is quite simply not one of the best "twins" ever recorded. Meihan is not just one single corner, its a few, but coming down from a straight into a hairpin door to door is a lot different to doing a few 50 degree corner kind of near eachother.
im not saying the ones i posted up are the best, but they are a good example of how that kind of proximity is seen every day in Japan.
Not at all, you see that technique is taught in many racing schools. An entry oriented cornering technique used in acute corners - Right angle, haripins, double apex's and corners with increasing radiuses.
Not nessacarily, twin drift is a commonly used term in real life territories such as the US, canada, brazil, new zealand, UK as well as australia, although im not aware of most non-english speaking drift communities.
The excerpt is posted previously is from these following sources that are in regard official rules and regulations. Notice how they commonly use the term "Twin".
There are many more i can post but i will leave it here.
Bottom line is that it is a high quality demonstration of driver control between two people engaged in a "Twin" as is was my intention to post that following video. But just to disclose this... whether my video or yours, point of the matter is we showed what is meant to others of professional drifting.
I figured I might put a reply in Ikaponthus, with a bit of a perspective. Basic background for me though - If I want to do grip racing, I'm generally in rFactor or GTR2... If I want to have some fun, I tend to drift in LFS, while my real life car is just getting prepped to get back out drifting by July
Because it basically is those two. It's a hell of a lot of fun (in real life), and yeah, having the car ridiculously sideways around the corner is part of the fun.
Considering cars were built as a means of transportation to begin with, and someone has then gone 'hey, racing these would be fun...', one would say cars aren't supposed to be raced. But then someone will take the argument that race cars are engineered to race, and that's also a valid point for drifting.
Many parts used in drift cars have come from a racing background (adjustable coilover suspension, mechanical differentials, adjustable toe/camber/traction arms, adjustable control arms), and thus one can take the view that if to argue that race cars are engineered to be raced around a track, drift cars have by the same process been engineered to slide.
Ironically a drift car will have pretty much 90% of the same components as a race car... The one thing that'll differ practically all the time is the spring in the coilovers, as it'll be a much much stiffer spring... My car is running 12kg front, 8kg rear springs... It's surprisingly decent on the street as well.
Any motorsport is dangerous. Drifting is no more dangerous than any other motorsport. Drifting on a track I'd rate as safer than WRC, because heck, at least I've got a run off to a sand trap on the track, whereas those WRC drivers tend to have trees, giant rocks etc 1m from the course.
Then again, we here in Australia just had our Clipsal 500, and one of the guys in one of the side-races to that died this week because he had an accident. He crashed into a wall at speeds believed to be above 200km/hr, and died as a result of injury.
If drifting is slower (and it is), and having an engineered drift car with a roll cage, harness etc, I'll take drifting thanks. That said I've had my car sideways around turn 2 at QR with an entry speed of 140+ km/hr, but that's a wide track with a lot of run off, so I'd say it was safe.
How many people have died at Le Mans? Nurburgring?
Also, damages the car? Driving a car damages it, purely from wear and tear. So does normal motorsport like motorkhana, circuit racing, WRC, etc. How many people have done track days and wrecked brake rotors? Broken gearboxes? Had suspension components fail? Motors fail? Probably a higher number than drifting
Yeah, it probably is the equivalent of WWE.. For pure excitement value, I find one good thing in regards to drifting, especially when it's at competitions, and this is one thing you DONT get in circuit racing.
The action happens in front of you all the time, when you're spectating. And the reason for this is the competitions are held on a series of corners, and generally, it's a 4-5 corner section on a track where everything is in plain view.
If someone is going to pass when drifting - and it is possible just on a basis of having more grip and speed - it's going to happen in front of you.
In normal circuit racing, you can be there, and not see the excitement happening on the other side of the track. And for me, that's where drift wins out over grip racing. The excitement is in front of me, all the time.
Also, you can generally walk through pit lane and get up close to the cars, and have a closer look at the machines themselves..
There was a comment earlier on in this thread saying that all drift cars run ridiculous amounts of camber.
I'd hardly say that -3 degrees camber on the front, with -0.5 on the rear is a ridiculous amount of camber to be running. I see more camber on the front end of a V8 Supercar
Sure, there are some people that DO run ridiculous amounts of camber, but if you want to be fast when drifting, the more rear grip you have, the better. And you get more rear grip by running less camber. Also, having high tire pressures will mean you spin the tires easier, but they won't grip up as well. So you end up having lower tire pressure, and less camber, to get more grip, and thus, more speed.
As an incidental thing, one of the top level drifters here in Australia is entering corners at Oran Park in 5th gear... So I'd say he'd be doing 180km/hr odd sideways... Which is absolutely berzerk... And I so want a passenger run...
So maybe drifting isn't that slow a sport after all.
im still struggling to understand what ur point is here, none of this is contridictory to what i was saying.
lol all copy and paste jobs of one.
yeh, well it is definately a good example of a good battle, but simply not one of the best.
we are really just fighting the same battle with varying opinions on minor details which arent really important. as u said we are both just trying to show good examples of the sport.
I think you kicked drifting in the nuts with that video nisskid.
Two mega dorifto pow4r machines drifting and an AE86 keeping up easily. OK the driver is the Drift King but he doesn't even drift. Just shows how slow that kind of drifting really is.
You just kicked yourself in the nuts Use some common sense. AE86 was clearly used as a chase car to film cars and so that Tsuchiya can make commentary.
Drifting is slower than "race driving/gripping". This is obvious.
In fact, Nisskid just showed how awesome drifting is on a closed touge. Great vid.
firstly, keiichi's AE86 is no average corolla, it is his which has been tuned for the touge, its quite simply designed for what its being used for there, not only is the handling great, the engine has got a fair bit of poke too. besides the fact that he has spent decades on the touge he raced AE86's in Japanese circuit racing for quite a few years as well. heres a nice vid of him when he was young: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5kAV_5oAkg
you can see how he used drift and grip on different corners, now remember its not drift like your used to seeing, its small induced oversteer, also notice how it worked with linked corners, the inertia from coming out of one corner meant they can use the weight shift to initiate the oversteer and give great turn into the corner.
secondly, what they are doing is quite simply "show" drift, big angle, big smoke, its not meant for speed. speed drift is a whole new technique, although both share equal precision and control. also the power of these cars is almost irrelevant on the touge, there are rarely any decent straights where you can open up, most of the time your fighting on the borderline of lateral grip so grip and handling is much more important, this is why cars like the AE86 stand a chance, the light weight allows them to shift direction and move around easier, power isnt as necessary.
as ive mentioned, in some cases slight oversteer can be used to overcome understeery conditions in some circumstances, (what most would consider the origins of drift in the Japanese touge) but in general terms it isnt, especially on a circuit etc under usual race conditions. this isnt to say there arent drivers that have been able to acheive faster times using variants of drift on some corners, but talking generally grip makes more sense for circuit racing.
They do share a common denominator that both techniques are initiated with power to induce wheel spin to slide but how the two orientations of these styles are different.
It is superficial really, for example, powerover, is centered towards style. Sliding throughout a corner at 40 or more degrees of angle, attemping to maintain or increase angle during the slide thoughout the entire track. Remember of course that drifting is a driving style where angle, speed and line come into play. Showmanship essentially.
On the other hand here we have powersliding, a race technique, while still a type of slide, in this case of powersliding the goal here is to counter understeer on acute turn-in by sliding into the entry while maintaining a minimum slip angle and keeping the speed as high as possible then afterwards at or before reaching the apex to return to grip as soon as possible taking the fastest possible speed throughtout the exit. What you mentioned in your previous posts were under assumption that powersliding and powerover are the same,
Powersliding: Race conditions - low angle, high speed, entry only.
Powerover: Drift conditions high angle, low speed, entire corner.
Point of the conversation earlier was to prove that twin is commonly used, end result my point has been proven.
Those sources, by governing that in their official rules and regulations accepted the fact that "Twin" is a welcomed and commonly used term in the world of drifting as these references are stated across from different parts of the globe.Quite common. Additionally, i do also attend drift events and speak to performing drifters and many do frequently speak of the term as well.
