There are problems for some people with that technique for me. My feet are skinny and are not wide enough to get a good press on the gas pedal (in my car). Also I can't just tilt my foot just a little to get a good blip because my heel hits the center divider (left hand side driver). I am forced to choke up on the brake pedal then tilt my side-foot/heel on to the gas pedal. I guess thats just my problem.
And with that conflicting arcs thingy, just pick up your feet. Not only does it solve the problem, you also get a lower ab workout while you drive/play LFS. Think, if you play lfs for more than 2 hours per sitting, then you get aprox. 1.3 hours of lower ab workout. Don't Be Lazy!!!!!
I don't think anyone is actually really suggesting that you are. It's been said that they are saying this, but I can't find it anywhere.
What we're saying is that there are transferable skills and that some people find that one helps the other. Tristan is an example of someone who is able to find correlations between LFS and real-life racing. Just because another person can't correlate the two doesn't mean that NOBODY can, or that Tristan's talking crap when he says HE can.
i think it goes back to, you never lose fear, you just overcome it with confidence, confidence as i mentioned earlier is very important, but its important to have in doses, too much confidence and you will bite off more than you can chew, too little confidence and you will be restricted even if you have the skill to go further.
id say if the first time Tristan stepped into one of these machines and wasnt even slightly overcome with a little bit of fear, then he must have been extremely overconfident, something which as ive mentioned before, can be very dangerous.
id be interested in knowing how he got into the sport though, what was his first experience, was he dumped straight into these cars, or did he start off in karts etc.
I've heard serveral prominate race car drivers from bygone eras that state they don't feel any fear when driving Dick Johnson springs to mind immediately, but I'm sure there is many many more. Look how calm and relaxed Peter Brock looked driving around Bathurst.
If you are a pro and your emotions (fear, excitement, anger, etc) have sway on you, you are more prone to make errors just as much as it can "shapen" your senses.
The real pro's have a supreme confidence in their abilities, to the point were they don't have fear. If you allow fear or any other emotion to have a hold on you while your racing as a race driver you are either a rookie or your in the wrong profession imo.
By you last post I think we are on similar wave lengths anyway just the wording
that part about nintendo wii, thats a different case, thats just simply building up and hand-eye coordination, its been known for years that playing games will help with that. but thats not the same, not even close.
once again, confidence. unfortunately confidence can work against a lot of drivers, this overcoming of fear can often take away a lot of the appeal of the sport as it doesnt give them the same buzz.
yep, i agree, it definately gives u a good understanding of the car's physics, i just think by the time you have got to a competant level in the sport your on track experience may have overriden this as even just a few practice days will teach you so much more about a car's physics than years and years of playing LFS. the amount of input u get from driving a real car gives u a lot more detail of the car's physics.
proof?
this is nice to read, but its far from proof, there are plenty of kids that just quite simply "get it", ones without previous driving or gaming experience, straight into a car and onto the track, and are very competent straight away.
this is made from a mixture of things, most of which im sure most people dont really know. there may have been a few elements from LFS that helped him out, i wouldnt rule it out, but this doesnt explain how the rest of the kids who share this talent who have never played a racing simulator.
theres always someone who freakishly exceeds in something without any real explanation, im more focused on the average person. id like to see a test done, people who play LFS and people who dont, first time on track, average the times, i reckon overall the LFS drivers may a bit quicker, it's hard to say, they might be equal, i personally think it would come down to other factors contributing the time before whether they have played LFS or not does.
LEARN TO USE 1 POST! You see this image . Click that for all the posts you want to quote, then at teh bottom go "post reply, and it'll put all the quotes in 1 nice post to reply to, rather than 4 posts.
Testimony! It's here in this thread. But instead of reading it and accepting it, you tell them they're talking crap. You're convinced that, because you can't equate LFS and real-life, they can't be equated.. and when an F3 driver turns up and says that it can be done, you do your damnedest to tell him he's wrong. I mean.. W...T...F???
LFS and real life arnt equal, if you think they are you are ignorant (but i dont think thats what u were saying)
this "F3 driver" seems to be missing the point of my posts, i dont think his opinion varies too far from mine if he left the immaturity at the door and actually read my posts. i think we both beleive that LFS can help with understanding the physics of a car, and that in some circumstances it could even help a driver out. i think the issue is he was too content on trying to pull apart technicalities in my argument, that he actually missed the whole point of what i was trying to say.
the main difference in our arguments is that i dont beleive the average LFS player can just get into a car and suddenly be a very competitive driver, i think even he conceded they would need a few track days before they would even be competent.
i can see im probably putting across the unpopular opinion here as people want to beleive that all their time playing a game has actually equated to making them a good real life driver, but i gotta be honest here, u can get into all the BS u want, but u wont be a good driver in real life until ur out on the track practicing, until then its just theory, a theory which is severely flawed.
I don't think many pro's make it to the top and stay there because they feel the buzz so much as it's more because they have a driving ambition (pun intended )
That's often why people like grass roots sports more than the big end of town stuff. To get to the top in any professional sport you need much more than a buzz feeling you need ambition to succeed.
Lets get one thing straight just because tristan owns a very out of date f3 car and races it with his own money at club level means nothing, If i went out and bought an old formula 1 car does that mean im a formula 1 driver no.
Simple fact is driving fast in lfs will not mean you can drive fast in real life because it is a computer sim and all the factors that nisskid has listed will contribute to that, Cant see why people cant understand that.
oh sorry, i wasnt saying thats the only reason, id say it would have more to do with simply going as far as they can in the sport and having different priorities, im just saying that sometimes a lot of the buzz can be lost over time and it loses the excitement it once had.
was just a side point i was making about how confidence affects the mentality.
Let's get the English lesson out of the way first, to equate two things is not to pronounce them equal, it's to establish a relationship between them.
I'm not any more ignorant than you are arrogant. Equate that at your leisure. You think people are failing to understand your posts, while I think perhaps there are problems with the way you're communicating.
You describe what you see as the main difference in your arguments, but I don't see those as the main differences. I see that you're referring to a bunch of people, that I can't find posting anywhere, who apparently think that LFS is as good as real track experience. I still don't know who it is you're saying is making that claim, but I'm pretty damn sure Tristan never did. Not at ANY point.
I think you've simply made a colossal generalisation, early on, about "the people who play LFS" and spent the last several hours trying to defend it. You're still pushing this generalisation, and because of it I think your argument isn't just flawed, it's completely groundless.
Lastly, you write in an authoritative fashion but as far as I can work out, you just do track-day drifting. The arguments you present are racing rhetoric, which we've ALL heard plenty of times before. You'd probably argue that the fact that I've driven the equivalent of roughly 45x around the earth actually counts for nothing, if I start talking about my real life driving experiences in relation to my LFS driving experiences, because I don't race or drift at track day. I'm not necessarily saying it DOES count for anything, but if I say that I find that driving in LFS, the cars handle as I'd expect them to handle, if I were driving in real life, you'd damn well better listen because I know what I'm talking about.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) equate
1.to regard, treat, or represent as equivalent: We cannot equate the possession of wealth with goodness.
2.to state the equality of or between; put in the form of an equation: to equate growing prosperity with the physical health of a nation.
3.to reduce to an average; make such correction or allowance in as will reduce to a common standard of comparison.
To consider, treat, or depict as equal or equivalent: equates inexperience with youth.
Online Etymology Dictionary equate
c.1400, from L. æquatus, pp. of æquare "make even or uniform, make equal," from æquus "level, even, equal." Earliest use in Eng. was of astrological calculation, then "to make equal;" meaning "to regard as equal" is early 19c. Equation is c.1386 in astrology; the mathematical sense is from 1570.
WordNet equate
1. consider or describe as similar, equal, or analogous; "We can compare the Han dynasty to the Romans"; "You cannot equate success in financial matters with greed"
2. be equivalent or parallel, in mathematics
3. make equal, uniform, corresponding, or matching; "let's equalize the duties among all employees in this office"; "The company matched the discount policy of its competitors" [syn: equal]
i just wanted to be clear on that point.
i didnt call u ignorant unless you meant to call the 2 equal, if you beleive the 2 are equal then i beleive that is ignorant.
ok.
not exactly saying it, but he is inferring it.
not stating it, asking it, which i was happy to reply to.
stating it
i drift and grip, grip not competitively as there is no real division for my car. drift i will be competing in the state competition this year if all goes well, but i dont really see the relevance of whether im competing or not, i have a decent grip of what both real life and LFS are like, so it helps me form an opinion on the subject.
What? Umm.. do you understand how to use a dictionary?
[edit] Okay, you quoted several different definitions of the word "equate". Each one is right, but dependent on the context. The 2nd one, from dictionary.com (and #1 from WordNet) are correct in the context of this thread.
Woo! Semantics sumo (sumantic tournament?) - my fav...
I'd go with #3:
3.to reduce to an average; make such correction or allowance in as will reduce to a common standard of comparison.
You make such an allowance in "real life" and find the lowest common denominator (steering input via ffb, traction as translated via sound and visual input and suspension movement via visual input) between RL and the sim and compare those two.
But hey - don't let me, a non-native English speaker get in the way - duke it out all you want.
Thank you. I'm rather proud of it. I'm assuming you realise I was correct to use the word 'no' there, don't you?
I never said they were exactly the same. But they are very comparible. Go round a corner at 0.4g and it's a bit like going round a corner at 2.0g, but a bit faster. Same forces, some directions, just different strengths.
I'm talking about your first season too (the learning season, where protocols and competitors are new to you, as are all the tracks, and as is the car you're driving. My controls DO NOT CHANGE WITH HEAT (other than warming up brakes and tyres, which isn't what you were referring to, and the latter of which is in LFS anyway and can be learnt there). My gear lever is plastic, and snicks into each gear with a tiny flick of the wrist. It's actually easier than on the G25 where I have to think.
In club level motorsport, in the UK at least, you HAVE to have seats and harnesses. You cannot race without them. So all drivers have them. I stepped into a full race car in May last year and whilst I wasn't immediately on the pace (old tyres, very wet track, and a few other problems I won't bore you with) it all seemed very natural and much like LFS. G-forces aren't disorientating.
That's because of THEIR style of play. They consider themselves great, and use the NFS style of not slowing down. Personally I attack a track from the slower side of things, and tend to crash quite rarely on my own until I start pushing my luck in the search for unrealistic tenths of a second that a game allows.
No, I'm not scared of that. The only thing in racing that frightens me is fire, and being trapped in the car.
No way. On my first laps of Castle Combe, in the pouring rain I was applying principles learnt from LFS about lines, throttle application, braking point judgements etc within a lap. Absolutely applicable.
When have I done that? Of course you need practice and seat time. But you slash the amounts of both by learning and honing all the skills required in a simulator.
I do know what both are like
Brakes don't overheat. There is something wrong with your brakes if they do. Race brakes haven't regularly overheated since about 1965, because it's very simple to cool them down. Clutches overheat a bit on the start, but thereafter you don't use them, and you don't make use of biting points. My car doesn't need the clutch for upshifts, but even in cars that do it's only a quick stab. Fluid doesn't boil. Not if you change it every so often and use a grade that has a higher boiling point than it will reach which is easy to estimate. Professionals probably use a smaller safety margin, but boiling brakes remain rare. So if your car is so badly prepared, you can't blame LFS for that. The only thing you need to know is that in the first couple of laps your tyres and brakes will be colder. And LFS does the tyre bit, so you can learn it there.
Maybe you use the word fear in a way I wouldn't. I've never yet been scared in a racing car. I get nervous - the same butterflies I get before I give a public address or go on stage as an actor. I know the adrenaline is pumping. But I've never ever been scared, or suffered from fear. It's not over confidence - a few times out I've not had any confidence (Rockingham, for example) but it's certainly not fear.
If you are scared (have fear) then you will be slow. If you have nerves, like all racing drivers, then you might be okay.
It's the same in LFS [for me]. Before a league qualifying session I'm frequently shaking and nervous. Plenty of people are. It's exactly the same feeling sitting in the assembly area of a race meeting.
I've not said in the first time out they'll be setting lap records. That would be foolish. You have to hone the skills in the exact environment you're in. But ALL (every single one) of the skills required can be partially realised within LFS, and probably a number of other sims too.
Having fear will hinder. Having unknowns and nervousness will help.
Drive LFS with the mindset that crashing will hurt you and your wallet. You will not only crash less, but probably go quicker too.
I'd agree with that - over confidence is a very dangerous thing. At one race - Brands Hatch - my Dad thought I was getting a bit over-confident prior to the race, and brought me down a peg or two. I'm glad he did, as it enabled me to race with my brain rather than my emotions, and allowed me to beat a much newer car, running at lower ride heights with (in theory) more power, and with a vastly more experienced driver.
Why should I be scared. I know how to drive. I have a good idea of my personal limits and how to start at a circuit (from starting carefully in LFS). The controls are all the same. I know every nut and bolt on the car [almost intimately]. I know the tracks (i.e. corner directions and radii)... Why should I be scared?
We bought an F3 car. I got a licence. I raced it. My first time ever on a track with other cars was at Castle Combe on May 7th 2007 in the POURING rain. I didn't spin. I wasn't slowest. I wasn't scared. I was passing and being passed at the same time, outbraking people, cadence braking, sliding, twitching etc.
You've not watched EuroBOSS have you? Essentially ClubF1. Yes, it would make you an F1 driver, although not a professional or official F1 driver. I drive an F3 car, and therefore I am an F3 driver. Simple.
I can't see why you can't understand that LFS will teach you an aspect (and often a very large aspect) of every skill required to drive quickly.
I wouldn't have expected anything more lucid from you.
Sam understand what I'm meaning. You will not get in a racing car for the first time and be 'on the pace' because of LFS. But you will slash your learning curve by factors of 10, if not 100, by learning what you need to know in some detail in a simulator. How to cope with oversteer and understeer. How to feel the limit. How to know if you've overcooked it, and what to do about it. How to cope with cold tyres. How the balance changes minutely with fuel load variances. How to drive a car on the limit (and even slightly over it) without getting too close to an accident.
I'm no pro. My idea of what isn't close to an accident is a lot lower than a skilled driver, and I've yet to claim I'm the best on my grid, let alone the best in the world. The difference between me driving and Rickard Rydell (who used to own my car) is probably several seconds per lap - before he changed the setup to suit him. But I'm still able to go into Riches corner at Snetterton at over 2g and over 120mph, get a slide mid-corner, hold it to the exit whilst trying to get the inside line into Sears. I know I am, because I've done it.
LFS won't stop you from having accidents - I've yet to have one, but better drivers than I have taken corners off their cars, or rolled them with wheel contact. Am I scared of that? Do I suffer from fear knowing that? Nope. Not at all.
Don't Be Lazy!!!!!
just the wording 
. Click that for all the posts you want to quote, then at teh bottom go "post reply, and it'll put all the quotes in 1 nice post to reply to, rather than 4 posts.
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