Quote from tristancliffe :

Lets say one day I walked passed your house. I saw you come out wearing some clothes I liked, and thought "thats pretty cool" (bear with me). So I waited until you weren't looking, snuck into your house, took all your clothes, put them on, and then walked around your neighbourhood so you'd see me.

Wouldn't you be a bit cross? I know in LFS it's not techically a criminal offence, but it's not nice. The reason the skins go in the skins_X folder is so that you know which ones are yours and which ones are other peoples.

A slightly better version would be to say what you said but in the context of room mates in which case it is polite to ask permission to use your roommates jeans or that cool shirt but even if you didn't, it's not a travisty and would be considered rude at worst and how each room mate reacted to the situation would simply be a reflection of their personality, beliefs, etc. I don't personally use other peoples skins and if someone used mine it wouldn't bother me In the situation you dicribed I'd just say "sorry m8 want do it again." and carry on, if they still have a beef with that then it's their problem not yours

Danowat you are wrong. You don't need to apply for a copyright, it is nothing like a patent or trademark. All you have to do when you create something is say somewhere on it that it is copyright to you and have proof that it existed on a certain date. So you could upload a file to the internet and write on it somewhere that it is copyright and that together with the datestamp on the file would be enough to copyright it.

This is a quote taken from a british website [url]www.is4profit.com:[/url]

Quote :

Copyright gives the creators of certain kinds of material rights to control ways their material can be used. These rights start as soon as the material is recorded in writing or in any other way. There is no official registration system.

So please be quiet and stop talking bs .

Quote from danowat :

Why?, because its not that simple, you don't automatically get a copyright on something because you have made it,

In Hong Kong, you DO get automatic copyrights.

Quote from Hyperactive :

Using other people's skins without permission is a punishable act and imho any self respecting team should insta ban such members.

Thats a wee bit hash in my opinion illepall even in real life if you breach copy write they will only pursue you if you are making a profit from it and will normally issue at least one warning before taking it to court Your suggesting we act as judge and executioner in one fowl swoop there is possibly many that do this without even understanding what they do

Also in life you may automatically have copy write, but it's another matter to enforce that copy write (which is probably why they have patents) If your oponent has more money, resources and contacts than you The law may be just, but it doesn't always garrantee justice The world is full of injustices the type of person you become in old age depends on how you cope with those injustices in life

It shouldn't be an issue of copy write at all it's an issue of respect for others property, and as people become more familiar with the community they will no dought respect each other and as a consequence respect the property of others, to bash people over the head with legal threats of breach of copy write doesn't do you any good for you or the community imho It is only a skin! And if thats all you've got to make a fuss over then you need to be mighty thankfull, cause your obviously better off than the majority of people in this world

Quote from B2B@300 :

Thats a wee bit hash in my opinion illepall even in real life if you breach copy write they will only pursue you if you are making a profit from it and will normally issue at least one warning before taking it to court Your suggesting we act as judge and executioner in one fowl swoop there is possibly many that do this without even understanding what they do

Also in life you may automatically have copy write, but it's another matter to enforce that copy write If your oponent has more money, resources and contacts than you The law may be just, but it doesn't always garrantee justice The world is full of injustices the type of person you become in old age depends on how you cope with those injustices in life

Its copyright not copy write . It's a right nothing to do with writing.

Quote from joshdifabio :

Its copyright not copy write . It's a right nothing to do with writing.

well that ruined that ah well :homersimp DOH!

Quote from tristancliffe :

Lets say one day I walked passed your house. I saw you come out wearing some clothes I liked, and thought "thats pretty cool" (bear with me). So I waited until you weren't looking, snuck into your house, took all your clothes, put them on, and then walked around your neighbourhood so you'd see me.

Hmm. Wouldn't a better metaphor be going to the shops and buying the exact same clothes that the target was wearing and then parading around the neighbourhood thinking you look cool? Because there's no physical theft here, only the (debatable) idea that you're stealing intellectual property by copying the way someone (or something) else looks. You'd be lame, and a bit of a jerk, but I don't think I could call you a thief.

Don't get me wrong, I've never used skins out of the skins_x folder as I agree that it seems rude. But I think your theft metaphor is over the top.

Quote from Gentlefoot :

.... You don't just get copyright as a matter of course. You must apply. ....

Quote from danowat :

...you don't automatically get a copyright on something because you have made it, at least in the UK, you first need to apply for patents, registered designs or trademarks, before you can have a copyrighted item....

Guys in my eyes this is definitive wrong!

The British law states that an individual's work is placed under copyright law as soon as it leaves that person's mind and is placed in some physical form, be it a painting, a musical work written in manuscript or an architectural schematic.

Of course there are many exceptions like when you are an employee and create something for your company etc. but the need to register it first was abolished a long time ago (i think in 1956).

Of course it's better to register your work because you can much easier prove that is your work if you have to go to court, but it's not necessary.

You automatically have the copyright on your "work" (painted skin or whatever).

btw patents, trademarks and copyrights are three completely diverse things.

Sure, I think I may have copyright confused with patent. Apologies for adding to the vast amount of misinformation floating around the web.

Fair enough, if my understanding of it (IP) is incorrect, I have no problem with that.

Dan,

The point is not what that law actually says, but how enforcable that law actually is.

In the context of single jpgs freely released to the internet for use in a videogame, it has already been pointed out that regardless of how many laws are actually broken, litigation is not a practical proposal.

Thus we fall back onto respect for another. Since this community prides itself on being helpful, friendly and above all respectful of each other, for the majority that shouldn't be a problem. That said the minority will always exist, and it is up to the majority to point out the error of their ways to that minority.

Quote from Smax :

...
Thus we fall back onto respect for another. Since this community prides itself on being helpful, friendly and above all respectful of each other, for the majority that shouldn't be a problem. That said the minority will always exist, and it is up to the majority to point out the error of their ways to that minority.

I totally agree with that.

Quote from B2B@300 :

Thats a wee bit hash in my opinion illepall even in real life if you breach copy write they will only pursue you if you are making a profit from it and will normally issue at least one warning before taking it to court Your suggesting we act as judge and executioner in one fowl swoop there is possibly many that do this without even understanding what they do
...

You're right. My comment was too severe but still in extend, I think it should be ok. What I mean that if someone is using someone else's skins all the time, maybe not allowing him to use the automatic skin downloading feature at LFSWorld... or I dunno.

It think all you're saying is that there needs to be consequences for people who undermine the trust of the community in this regard, so long as it's intentional. Which I agree with, but many people probably would not understand the principle with that, especially people who are not really fanatical about LFS... Although by nature LFS attracts fanatics!

i think people that use team and personal skins are ass', as alot of people put alot of effort into creating design, just for some lazy so-an-so to use it all willy-nilly.

also, i just wanted to ask, and i nkow this is the extreme, but if you were to write 'personal skin, do not use, property of (enter name here)' and someone used that skin, could you(enters american mode) sue the pants off them for anything??

no.

edit:
pants only get sued off when there is personal damage involved. If you spent a sizable amount of cash, there is a remote possibility that you could have a court order a cease and desist, with consequences of further penalites, but that would not likely happen - the judge would have to stop laughing first of all

lol, american mode!!

There is a way that the copyright and using of skins without permission can be "policed" and it has already happened here. That would be the creators of the fantastic PUBLIC skins that are released in the community and sites like Master Skinnerz no longer show off their great creative talent. I won't bring up names, but I know of one fantastic and creative skinner who has released many fantastic works talk of quitting because he saw a rip of one of his own. I don't know what ever came of it, but it was sad to hear of someone give up because of the inconcideracy of others.

It's just simple. There are so many great skins released for public USE by great skinners. They say, use them, they are public, but don't modify. Then some inconciderat Ba*****d goes and modifies or rips of the design and the creator gets understandably PO'ed. It's just simple, skins are used for identification personally or team. Also skins are released for public. You shouldn't use any skins in the skins_x folder as you don't know if they are released publically or not. There is a skinning section here and many forums dedicated to skinning where you can find publicly released skins. Find them, use them, but don't modify them (without asking) and don't rip off the design for your own use.

I saw something the other day which might suggest said talented and prolific skinner might have re-considered and decided to make the odd public skin or two again, but nothing definite.

Ulitimately that is what happens....If you use skins without permission, claim others work as your own or edit skins without permission then sooner or later you'll end up having to make your own, cos nobody else will.

lets just say that yes it is wrong, ask permission at least, however most skinners put notes on the skin f you open the actual skin (ie, name, email adress, plublic or not etc) because they are nice!

Quote from Gentlefoot :

Great - didn't know you could do this. Must go through that folder to find some skins I like lol

With regards intellectual property rights, copyright etc, its only a crime if the person who created the skin has actually applied for copyright on it (in English Law). You don't just get copyright as a matter of course. You must apply. I doubt anyone has actually bothered - it costs money.

So, probably all skins are fair game with regard the law. Obviously if someone was unhappy about it I would remove the skin from my collection without hesitation. And I do think using team skins of a team you're not in is a bit off.

btw - I'd be pleased if I saw people using my skins.

The copyright in the work of authorship immediately becomes the property of the author who created the work. Only the author or those deriving their rights through the author can rightfully claim copyright.

from the US copyright office.

and just because someone puts something on a public domain, doesnt mean you can use it for your own purposes. take podcasts, for example. if you download a podcast, does it mean you can go broadcast it? no, the creator/owner has the rights. just because a skin is on lfs world, doesn't mean you can use it. it's so you can SEE them, not use them without permission.

meh without all the political talk ill put it in stupid peoples terms.

dont steal shit man

Quote from richy :

meh without all the political talk ill put it in stupid peoples terms.

dont steal sh*t man

Hmm, without the use of punctuation, I can't tell if you are saying to not steal sh*t, or telling sh*tman not to steal, hehehe .

Just kidding bud . See, we're not so bad here, eh?

Very nicely, unpolitically, putting it there too.

Quote from mrodgers :

Hmm, without the use of punctuation, I can't tell if you are saying to not steal sh*t, or telling sh*tman not to steal, hehehe .

:ices_rofl

Or, you're outlawing the theft OF the sh*itman!

Quote from P1lot :

Skins that teams create are intended for team members only. Likewise for someone who spends time and effort creating a skin for their own personal use.

So don't be surprised if people don't like you using their skins, it is better to ask first and get their permission. There's not alot they can do to MAKE you stop using them, apart from make your life harder with kicking, banning etc.

/signed

Couldn't have said it better. And if one doesn't want to d/l loads of skins, turn off the optional automatic skin download within LFS.

Quote from P1lot :

There are skins that people create for public use, check out Master Skinnerz

Another site with a w e s o m e public skins is German Skin Depot