What sort of class was this?
Niko, don't believe what people tell you. Believe what YOU believe in.
That's what I was told, it helped me a LOT.
Personally, I believe in a higher power that's guiding us.
So where do I stand? :O
That's what I was told, it helped me a LOT.
Personally, I believe in a higher power that's guiding us.
So where do I stand? :O
There maybe facts to prove he is real, but the amount of facts to suggest he isn't real makes the odds fairly slim.
I wouldn't say I'm an atheist, I'm a Christian, but more "open to the idea of a God" rather than a straight "No he doesn't exist" / "Yes he does exist"
I wouldn't say I'm an atheist, I'm a Christian, but more "open to the idea of a God" rather than a straight "No he doesn't exist" / "Yes he does exist"
(speedway)
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by speedway
I always hated the subject religion at school.
You are perfectly sane. Well, at least in this regard concerning religion. I don't know about other fields.
You are perfectly sane. Well, at least in this regard concerning religion. I don't know about other fields.
As DK said... believe only what seems right to you... or in other words, what you actually believe in! 
And about religion class... don't take it too seriously. I had that for about one year, and it actually made me become an atheist.
I remember as we had to bring our own music to class one time. Everybody brought something like... kids stuff. I had a CD of Judas Priest (with a nice cover... some evil creature flying through the air on a motorbike with circle saw blades as wheels), and my buddy had one from Guns'n'Roses. We shocked the whole class with that and especially the religion class teacher. She called me at home later that day... to tell me that the CD i brought to class, would have hidden satanistic messages when played backwards! That was quite amusing!
And by the way... you don't sound like lerts AT ALL!
And about religion class... don't take it too seriously. I had that for about one year, and it actually made me become an atheist.
I remember as we had to bring our own music to class one time. Everybody brought something like... kids stuff. I had a CD of Judas Priest (with a nice cover... some evil creature flying through the air on a motorbike with circle saw blades as wheels), and my buddy had one from Guns'n'Roses. We shocked the whole class with that and especially the religion class teacher. She called me at home later that day... to tell me that the CD i brought to class, would have hidden satanistic messages when played backwards! That was quite amusing!
And by the way... you don't sound like lerts AT ALL!
Asking other peoples opinions will only give their opinion, not hard facts when you are talking about something as vague as religion. I'd suggest you to ask more questions and if there is something you don't understand, make sure the other one understands this. Reading bible does not hurt either but the most important thing is that you make the decision yourself based on what you think. It is also important that you ask the right question and get the opinions from both sides, maybe ask your parents as well. You could ask your ET (elämänkatsomustiedon opettaja) the same questions too. Open mind is a requriement as is understanding the difference of open discussion and conversion.
Also, bear in mind that most religion teachers are almost diagnosed nutcakes (from my experience) so the chance for intelligent discussion is not always possible 
.
Also, bear in mind that most religion teachers are almost diagnosed nutcakes (from my experience
) so the chance for intelligent discussion is not always possible .I remember reading somewhere that many religious poeple believe in the big bang theory.
The order of creation (in the bible) is fairly accurate to what really happened. The earth and seas then plants then animals and finally humans. The length of day isn't specified in the bible.
The order of creation (in the bible) is fairly accurate to what really happened. The earth and seas then plants then animals and finally humans. The length of day isn't specified in the bible.
I believe that we breath. I believe who cares as long as we live the lives we want to and have something to live for (dreams, family, etc) and live it, thats all that should matter.
To me, i believe the meaning of life, is having something to live for.. Dont believe others beliefs unless you believe them truly deep down.
To me, i believe the meaning of life, is having something to live for.
. Dont believe others beliefs unless you believe them truly deep down.Just spend the whole lesson picking arguments over anything your RE teacher says, regardless of who's actually right. Hopefully your parents will congratulate if you fail RE, I know mine didn't give a hoot what I got in it 
And of course, believe in what you judge to be reasonable. If you feel there's a God (or Gods), go right ahead; if you feel there is no, that's fine too, imo.
And of course, believe in what you judge to be reasonable. If you feel there's a God (or Gods), go right ahead; if you feel there is no, that's fine too, imo.According to my RS teacher "Day" isn't the correct translation - it merely means "unit of time". When the Bible we have now was translated it wasn't done literally, it was also made more readable, and so "Unit Of Time" -> "Day".
I belive the correct term would be "form tutor".
DKs statement is they way to do it. I too hate people trying to to evangelize you to their faith, and atheists who try the same. I myself believe in something that made the start to all, but not that a guy named Noah made a ship all animals could fit in
Pope Pius XII appeared at the Pontifical Academy of Sciences on 22nd November 1951 and delivered an address titled: "The Proofs for the Existence of God in the Light of Modern Natural Science"; in which he acknowledges the research of Hubble and says that the Big Bang Theory is direct proof of the existence of God.
(Full account of this is on page 360 of "The Big Bang" by Simon Singh.)
In any case, for me personally, at the last UK Census I listed my religion as JEDI!!!
God is what anyone wants it to be. Man/Woman/Dog/Car... it make's little difference these days.
What I do find funny is the people who say that they don't beleive in anything, which is (!!Pedantic Alert!!) clearly wrong as to beleive in nothing you have to had to beleive that
A) something was there
2) it now is'nt
iii) having a belief in nothing is indead a belief in something.
mmmm deep stuff that should only be thought/talked about when on Magners cider, or for the kiddies, Irn-Bru.
What I do find funny is the people who say that they don't beleive in anything, which is (!!Pedantic Alert!!) clearly wrong as to beleive in nothing you have to had to beleive that
A) something was there
2) it now is'nt
iii) having a belief in nothing is indead a belief in something.
mmmm deep stuff that should only be thought/talked about when on Magners cider, or for the kiddies, Irn-Bru.
yep, first time i really slept in school were at religion class
but the teacher didnt notice, she were just telling us some story from bible and i were speeping. than after half an hour my friend sayd ''wake up, this class is ending''And never get trouble at those classes. our teacher is a priest's wife so she knows how to preach 30 mins about drawing to my notebook while i should listen
Sounds like your teacher has been trying to baffle you with things you don't understand. TBH that's how a lot of religions get people. Like "OMG he said something I don't understand, it must mean God did it!". Pfft.
Cosmological Provement (I hate the word 'provement' BTW)
All objects in space move. We already know this. But when did god start this happening? At the creation part of the bible there is no mention of "And God didst push the world so it did rotate". Nor is there any mention of non-earthly bodies.
And as a related matter - if man is god's creation and we are in his own image, what exactly would aliens be? Logic tells us they must exist somewhere. No mention of him creating those though. And if they are more advanced or intelligent than us (which they'd need to be to get to us), what does that say about us in god's image?
Teleological
This one is odd. People are not moving towards any particular goal, unless you count our own destruction. We're not all working together for anything. Or at least I'm certainly not. If that were true, we wouldn't need a Saviour to come back and guide us.
Ontological
Doesn't really matter. God by his very definition must be the embodiment of all things righteous and good. But since he is also vengeful, he must also have a darker side. Because he did wipe out nearly everyone in the world via a flood at one point. Charming.
Moral
Just because something is either good or bad is no basis on belief. God controls all you do, right? But no. Apparently when you do something bad that's not him. Well that's great. Nice convenient get out clause there. And if he was all that fantastic, wouldn't he stop the Devil taking control of you? Shouldn't he have guided you along a better path?
Debunking 101. I'm agnostic. If God wants me to believe in him he'll have to do a much better job than anything he's done so far. Proof or fail, God. Proof or fail. And if he's guiding my actions he only has himself to blame
Cosmological Provement (I hate the word 'provement' BTW)
All objects in space move. We already know this. But when did god start this happening? At the creation part of the bible there is no mention of "And God didst push the world so it did rotate". Nor is there any mention of non-earthly bodies.
And as a related matter - if man is god's creation and we are in his own image, what exactly would aliens be? Logic tells us they must exist somewhere. No mention of him creating those though. And if they are more advanced or intelligent than us (which they'd need to be to get to us), what does that say about us in god's image?
Teleological
This one is odd. People are not moving towards any particular goal, unless you count our own destruction. We're not all working together for anything. Or at least I'm certainly not. If that were true, we wouldn't need a Saviour to come back and guide us.
Ontological
Doesn't really matter. God by his very definition must be the embodiment of all things righteous and good. But since he is also vengeful, he must also have a darker side. Because he did wipe out nearly everyone in the world via a flood at one point. Charming.
Moral
Just because something is either good or bad is no basis on belief. God controls all you do, right? But no. Apparently when you do something bad that's not him. Well that's great. Nice convenient get out clause there. And if he was all that fantastic, wouldn't he stop the Devil taking control of you? Shouldn't he have guided you along a better path?
Debunking 101. I'm agnostic. If God wants me to believe in him he'll have to do a much better job than anything he's done so far. Proof or fail, God. Proof or fail. And if he's guiding my actions he only has himself to blame
Religion is something where man has invented something like a fictive character etc which serves as an answer/reason/excuse to things which he cannot explain in any other way.
This is quite natural for humans to find the reasoning behind everything. People have never liked things which happen without a reason - it's the fear of unkown I guess. Religion starts when the knowledge ends.
I haven't seen any 'proof' for god's existence which would survive scientific investigation. That's my opinion.
LFSNoob:
"If God put everything moving, then who put him moving?"
It was his wife telling him to take the garbage out.
This is quite natural for humans to find the reasoning behind everything. People have never liked things which happen without a reason - it's the fear of unkown I guess. Religion starts when the knowledge ends.
I haven't seen any 'proof' for god's existence which would survive scientific investigation. That's my opinion.
LFSNoob:
"If God put everything moving, then who put him moving?"
It was his wife telling him to take the garbage out.
http://youtube.com/profile_vid ... us+camp&search=Search
This disgusting document will help you to make your decision...
This disgusting document will help you to make your decision...
Wikipedia has a good introduction to arguments for the existence of God (and to arguments against his existence).
I wouldn't call them proofs, because when you look closely, all those "proofs" are either based on circular reasoning or on a weird definition of god.
Yes, that is the objection from the nonbelievers: the believers "explain" the cosmos with god's design, but that only works if god himself doesn't need any explanation. It is forbidden to ask "Who created god?"
I wouldn't call them proofs, because when you look closely, all those "proofs" are either based on circular reasoning or on a weird definition of god.
Yes, that is the objection from the nonbelievers: the believers "explain" the cosmos with god's design, but that only works if god himself doesn't need any explanation. It is forbidden to ask "Who created god?"
Just curious... where are you getting this from?
I'm as disgusted by middle American evangelicals as the next guy, but even I have to admit that Jesus Camp is a pretty horribly skewed take on it.
Then your RS teacher was lying to you
A lot of 'believers' tend to re-translate the bible when they suss-out that it doesn't fit into the 'real' world.For the ancient Hebrews, and the bible, a day is from sun-up to sunset, and the dark bit in between is called night. (See Genesis 1:5) Basically it is a normal 24hr cycle based on the earths rotation, just the same as everyone else uses.
That 'Unit of Time' thing is simply a cop-out, to try to explain that the world must have taken longer than the claimed 6 days.
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As for on topic and Niko's strange 'provement' things. I've been involved with various religions for over 30yrs, and i can honestly say i've never heard those terms before
Just sounds like new age hippie bullshit to me !"All of this has happened before and all of it will happen again"
Mandatory reading!
Something [does god exist]
(421 posts, started )
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