Quote from Speed Soro :

forget

LOL, I saw it before you deleted it.

I actually really like GTL although my heel an toe sucks like mad. I have noticed that the set ups make much more difference to the handling of the cars in GTL than they do in LFS.....took me bloody ages before I could break and shift gear down without spinning the car. GTL made me appreciate and learn setting adjsutments really well and as such it has improved me in LFS.

Reference that video you posted it would be no problems driving LFS like that without clutch fry, just check out some similar you tube vids with people doing heel and toe technique.

All hale king of the Ford mustangs

I watched the video posted by Speed Soro. Or not posted.

I'm much more aggressive with the throtle. Still my clutch stays cool.
I must be über 1337 driver! Oh crap. It's not me who is 1337 it's the autoclutch.

Does GTL model clutch heat or malfunction?

Quote from Speed Soro :

Try this with LFS and lets see how long the clutch goes:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oKy6QezZt...related&search

But I believe I'm totally wrong, cause LFS is perfect and has nothing more to improve.

Fan boys... tsctsctsc

What's your point?

Personally, in LFS I drive with heel-toe all the time, and compared to that video also make much more brutal and faster upshifts... yet somehow the clutch is never a problem.

Maybe if you stopped being so chickenshit and posted a replay of yours we could see where you go wrong, so you can improve and finally enjoy patch Y, because then you'd maybe finally realise the clutch modelling is not as far off as you believe it to be. If you want to improve that is - if you're just in for your usual trolling then don't bother.

Quote from Speed Soro :

forget

Now we see true colours lol

I take it you have realised your setup/driving is to blame then as you are not willing to post a replay and setup to show us how when you drive right the clutch still burns.

Quote from March Hare :

And their set.

What the hell is it with guys who burn their clutches? All of you say it's the games fault and has no part what so ever in how you drive.

Come on! How can most VERY fast people drive without heating the clutch? Even us slowpokes can drive without burning it!

I can't burn the effing clutch in a race and I use the bleeding AUTOCLUTCH!

Own up! You just can't shift for shit.

Like anyone will admit their wrong, especially on the internet. Doubly so among their peers. I mean, everyone is an expert when no one is judging you in person, right?

Quote from Dandy Dust :

Hi!

Can someone please write a clutch - monitoring
tool, so that the driver can learn in which situation
he would do how much damage to the clutch for
what ever reason...

That would be a total waste of someone's time. You simply need to know the basics of how a clutch works and how to drive a manual car.

• You drive off in 4th gear, you burn the clutch
  
• You flatshift in a car without autocut, you burn the clutch
  
• You slip the clutch too much, you burn the clutch.
  
• You attempt to drive up a hill with the car rolling back, without doing a proper hill start, you burn the clutch

I have just saved <insert programmer name here> several weeks or months of their time. I deserve a medal (:really . Theres a whole load of other ways to burn the clutch, but at the end of the day, its just common sense

One common rule is to have apropriate gear in current speed. If you drive 20kmph, please use first or second gear, not third or fourth.

If you are going to stop (for pitting, for example), press the clutch before you stop. It is ok to press it early, only difference is that you don't get motor braking.

If you start to spin, keep your clutch pressed.

Don't keep your clutch pressed only partially. There is no point for doing that. If you want to restrict your acceleration, use throttle instead.

When you want to start moving, you must slide the clutch a little bit, but that doesn't mean you have clutch pressed until you reach T1. It is matter of fraction of seconds.

Like said: Do like you do it in real life.

Quote from AndroidXP :

Okay, I've now made some tests on the FZR specifically [......] So dear troubled FZR racers, do you think you'll be able to adapt this complex change, or will you continue to blame the clutch modelling for the problems your ridiculously long first gear causes?

Thank you AndroidXP, for making the effort to sort this out.

It appears that some drivers are exploiting car setup settings, with the consequence that their clutch may easily burn.

This was bound to happen though, seeing that you can adjust your gear ratios in impossible micro-steps.

The next logical step would be to offer a limited range of fixed gear ratios in the car setup. For some cars, you may not be able to change gear ratios at all. That'd be another good reason for a whinge & whine fest, hey

I can't believe what I read here.

I can play GTR2 for hours without burn the clutch, but if I force the engine I burn it.

LFS is better than GTR2 just in 2 things: the complex tyre/suspension physics (it is complex but not proved right yet) and the amazing nude and raw force feedback.

But GTR2 is made from telemetry data, approved by professional drivers and it simulates too many more things that LFS still doesn't simulate.

LFS now simulates the clutch waste and heating and it is wrong. It is a fact simple to observe, anyone can observe that but here the fan boys arguments (or the lack of ) are always impossible to live with.

Where this crap simulation is right??? Show me at least one real life example where the clutch waste so soon and so easy.

My setup is wrong??? Why??? Am I a bad driver? What is so dificult to lift the accel pedal??? Am I dumb?

No my setups are right, I drive right and the clutch waste is bad simulated, simple like that, and many people here lies.

Quote from Speed Soro :

This behavior is wrong. Once it get red there is no way to back to orange.

No no no, YOU are wrong. There IS a way to get the clutch back to orange. If you haven't been able to do it then you must be doing something wrong.

Quote from Speed Soro :

The clutch is wrong, and there is nothing wrong with the way I drive.

I don't know really how well the clutch is simulated, but to assume there is nothing wrong with the way you drive would make it difficult for you to improve. Its just not the kind of attitude that is conducive to learning... or to be treated with respect in forums.

Quote from Speed Soro :

I can't believe what I read here...... <snip>

Soro...have you ever considered for one moment that the clutch in GTR2 is far too forgiving? Remember, GTR2 is dumbed down for the masses. I'm not getting into a GTR v LFS argument here though so lets knock it on the head there. I'm not an LFS 'fanboy', there are many things i don't like about LFS, but the clutch sure as hell isn't one of them.

Now, instead of saying that many people here are liars why not just post a replay and a setup where you burn the clutch and this issue can be settled once and for all.

I suspect you really don't want to hear that your driving isn't as good as you think it is. If that's not the case then post the replay/setup and prove to us that LFS has got it wrong.

I just cant see how anyone can ruin the clutch when driving correctly

Quote from Speed Soro :

Where this crap simulation is right??? Show me at least one real life example where the clutch waste so soon and so easy.

I was 17 years young. We sat in an old Beetle in a traffic jam. The queue didn't move really fast, so our driver decided to start in fourth gear. After a few seconds you could smell the clutch. He aborted this experiment immediately, when the queue began to move faster ... but our car didn't go faster, even in first gear. We had to wait half an hour before we could move on. The clutch has been tortured (not even close to the redline!!!) with a 50bhp engine and we weren't able to move. Now, can you imagine, that a GT-car like the FZR (with its 490bhp) hasn't been made for those "adventures"? It's made for racing and for drivers who are aware of that. There aren't any heavy-duty clutches in racecars because they have to save weight and the drivers "usually" can handle it, like most of the racers in LFS who can handle the patch Y clutch.

When you really want to change sth., upload a replay and your setup. "Maybe" it improves your driving.

Greets

Well, I assume that any argument defending the game here, no matter what point, are always in principle wrong, cause the first position of the majority here is always to defend the game in the stage it is at that moment. It has been in this manner since the beggining, and I have seen people change their opinion many times after any news from the devs. If someone come here and complain, many fall over killing the guy, but after months something is changed, then that people forget they love the old version of the game and start defending everything in the new format.

The clutch is not right, no matter how many times you say that I drive wrong.

I drive right. Not the best drive ever, but ebough for do not burn any clutch in the world.

I didn't start in 3 or 4 not even 2o gear. I started in 1st, I do the same way I use to drive my real car. I lift my foot before change the gears, I do everything right.

This model is wrong. You are asking me to drive like a mom going to the mall in a sunday morning... comon. Those are race cars, and this is just a game, supposed to be simulated but fun.

It is the same thing about RAC. Who in this world could confirm that car is so perverted in real life like it is in the game?

just like Race and many others little things that need improvments, the clutch model is wrong and need too.

Comon, I drive for almost 30 years. This game is wrong, stop.

Im not saying that this game sux, or the clutch sux, or everything like that. I love this game. I really love this game and respect deeply the LFS Team´s work. I'm not saying too that it is supposed to be easy to implement any single detail in the game.

I believe that it is hard. But it is a fact that the clutch is wrong and the fun has been compromised after its appearence.

So you changed to automatic transmission (and other top drivers like you said) and the problem disapears?

oh god im late for the biannual soro hissyfit

I spun my UF-Baby-R once and was still on the gas while rolling backwards in first. I burnt the clutch to bits.

Quote from Speed Soro :

This model is wrong. You are asking me to drive like a mom going to the mall in a sunday morning... comon. Those are race cars, and this is just a game, supposed to be simulated but fun.

Does it read between the lines that the clutch should be more forgiving than in real life because this is just game and you're not having fun because you can't abuse it anymore?

edit: And nobody's asking you to drive slowly, the racing in LFS is still way too agressive compared to real life and if everyone else can do it, why couldn't you?

I once caused the clutch-plate in my rally car to explode (literally) because of too much heat, which I generated trying to extricate myself from a ditch. :ashamed:

And this was a "high-performance" clutch.

So, it is quite easy to fry a clutch if you abuse it. Having said that, I do think that the modelling in the game is a little too aggressive, BUT, I would rather have it too aggressive and have to deal with it than be able to ignore it because the clutch heats too slowly. At least it makes you think about your technique.

Some of you guys obviously didn't get the memo when Patch Y was released.

There's a reason that old setups weren't moved to the new setups directory when patch Y was released. That reason is because this clutch overhaul means you have to make new setups. Make a setup with a shorter 1st gear (higher ratio) and a higher final drive. Adjust all other gears correspondingly. It will make for a much easier start with no clutch overheating, because the clutch and flywheel will match speeds much quicker than before when you had a long 1st gear and a low final drive.

Quote from Speed Soro :

Well, I assume that any argument defending the game here, no matter what point, are always in principle wrong, cause the first position of the majority here is always to defend the game in the stage it is at that moment.

Let me try one more attempt. You are really saying this at the moment.

"There is a problem. I am not going to give you any information about what the problem is. Its just wrong OK, change it."

If you post a replay and setup if can be looked at to see what the problem you have found is.

Trouble is that since Patch Y there have been many say "Its wrong" but when asked for more info on the issue they believe they have found nobody will post a replay and setup to show what the problem it.

This is why the clutch is a short fuse topic. Nobody that shouts about problems is EVER willing to show what the problem is. The replay and setup allow looking at what is going on and what is the cause of the heat. It could be an issue but unless you show what the problem is it can't be fixed.

Quote from Woz :

Let me try one more attempt. You are really saying this at the moment.

"There is a problem. I am not going to give you any information about what the problem is. Its just wrong OK, change it."

That's not all he's saying, either. According to the quote,

Quote from Speed Soro :

any argument defending the game here, no matter what point, are always in principle wrong

he's also saying that nobody can be right if they like LFS. Bit pointless even answering him, IMO, because it's obvious he has no capacity for reason at all.

Quote from Speed Soro :

It is the same thing about RAC. Who in this world could confirm that car is so perverted in real life like it is in the game?

Although it's a matter of preference in the end, I find that with a proper setup that car is alot of fun to drive. I believe axus and others had released such setups in the thread about locked diffs.

However that which is a perversion is the original colour of the upholstery in that car (yet another matter of preference) - kudos to whoever has made interior textures that deal with it.

Quote from Speed Soro :

This game is wrong, stop.

It could very well be - but I've yet to encounter a problem like the one you mention in any car and I do some lengthy offline stints, usually a gas-tank worth and then I stop. The only blatantly wrong things I've found are mostly relevant to not-yet-implemented features.

Quote from Speed Soro :

Well, I assume that any argument defending the game here, no matter what point, are always in principle wrong, cause the first position of the majority here is always to defend the game in the stage it is at that moment. It has been in this manner since the beggining, and I have seen people change their opinion many times after any news from the devs. If someone come here and complain, many fall over killing the guy, but after months something is changed, then that people forget they love the old version of the game and start defending everything in the new format.

The clutch is not right, no matter how many times you say that I drive wrong.

I drive right. Not the best drive ever, but ebough for do not burn any clutch in the world.

I didn't start in 3 or 4 not even 2o gear. I started in 1st, I do the same way I use to drive my real car. I lift my foot before change the gears, I do everything right.

This model is wrong. You are asking me to drive like a mom going to the mall in a sunday morning... comon. Those are race cars, and this is just a game, supposed to be simulated but fun.

It is the same thing about RAC. Who in this world could confirm that car is so perverted in real life like it is in the game?

just like Race and many others little things that need improvments, the clutch model is wrong and need too.

Comon, I drive for almost 30 years. This game is wrong, stop.

Im not saying that this game sux, or the clutch sux, or everything like that. I love this game. I really love this game and respect deeply the LFS Team´s work. I'm not saying too that it is supposed to be easy to implement any single detail in the game.

I believe that it is hard. But it is a fact that the clutch is wrong and the fun has been compromised after its appearence.

Hi, Speed Soro, I respect your opinions. I think many thing is just not right in LFS maybe beside of the clutch. But remember, LFS project is still developing. It is unfair to expect perfection at one shot, so for a small team like this project's devs has, it is awesome what they did until now. This project is aimed high, it will take time to reach there. We have to wait. I believe Scawen already knows about this clutch issue beside of many others. Our advantage is here, we have developers who likes to drive as much as many of us maybe more than many of us.

I am a big fan of LFS and I proud to be. There is no alternative for me. But I am not blind, I can see the flaws in this sim. also. But its not end of the world, it will be better day by day, step by step that is I believe.

To help the devs, we have to describe the problem correctly than put all the evidence about it on the table in a simple & plain way. It is better to post "Improvement Suggestions" section.

Return to your "clutch" issue, it is better to take notes what happened, where and which situation in a technical detail. No one can judge your driving ability, there is no such a tool in computer environment, they can only tell you about your driver inputs differences or maybe the some inputs that triggered the problems. But thats not proof that you are a bad driver in real life IMO. Contrary, you would be better than many of us in real life situations.
Its matter of adaptation to simulation.

Accept it as is, LFS will be improved in the future patches, for an example; engine model, crash/collision model needs improvement everyone knows but its matter of time.

Have a good day to you all.

Don't waste your breath. He is incapable of improving as a driver.

He refuses to post a replay of the clutch problem so in all likelyhood there is no problem. He is just a stupid troll.

It definitely seems like he's entirely unwilling to accept his driving may be flawed.
The lack of replays or setups backs this up.

SpeedSoro, have you even tried the setup changes that were suggested further up in the thread? Are you using setups downloaded from the Inferno website (and therefor out of date)? Even if they were reworked for Patch Y, they're designed for a single fast lap, not an entire race.

Seriously, if you're burning the clutch racing against a whole field of people who are NOT burning the clutch, I would suggest the problem is yours rather than the software.
But without any evidence we can't tell.