You just can't give us replay right. Spoke so much crap that you can't even say you was wrong. Im sure most of people stop blame if you give replay where you burn your clutch.
Of course the clutch is modelled wrongly! It isn't even near realistic!
And because of that fact, I don't burn clutches. We should do something about it so I also have problems with clutch.
</sarcasm>
Come on! If 5% of the users have problems with clutch and 95% don't have, guess where the problem is..?
And because of that fact, I don't burn clutches. We should do something about it so I also have problems with clutch.
</sarcasm>
Come on! If 5% of the users have problems with clutch and 95% don't have, guess where the problem is..?
And so goes another day on the LFS forums.... Three pages of childish jeering.
Except:
&
You know why no one ever searches? Because you really have to dig to find anything useful here.
Yep if we didn't have unlimited setup options, there would be less "this isn't right!" threads and if people would just actually listen to what the developers say they would realise that alot of things are not fully implemented yet and therefore are a compromise favouring "normal racing conditions"....
Thanks for the summary Nihil, I was depressed after reading the first part of the thread and not finding interesting argumentation.
I wonder if there is a way to rate / highlight good posts so that we can hide the garbage rest?
I wonder if there is a way to rate / highlight good posts so that we can hide the garbage rest?
Still waiting for those replays of the clutch failures.
Kind of hard to help anybody who doesn't give out any details of the problem.
Kind of hard to help anybody who doesn't give out any details of the problem.
Maybe it's the same thing than showing your penis in the sauna. Someone has bigger than yours. Maybe he don't want to proove that he is doing it wrong.
That is the logical conclusion.
Unfortunately that takes all credibility out of their arguments.
Even so they want us to prove that you can fry a clutch IRL. Go figure
I agree with this, you can pull away in 5th gear in a road car and still change gear without the clutch slipping like crazy, in lfs you can't
Not this AGAIN.
The clutch simulation is much more realistic than everyone racing round flatshifting their XFGs.
Real race cars have very light flywheels, that make the engines prone to stalling if trying to use a normal launch. Also, a lot of race clutches are either "on or off" like devices. They're very grabby, and typically it's very difficult to slip these clutches, which is another reason (in addition to a light flywheel), that it's so easy to stall an engine when exiting the pits unless the driver uses a lot of throttle and just drops the clutch in order let the tires spin, since the clutch doesn't want to slip, and the engine has too light a flywheel for inertia to keep the launch going.
Post a vid of you doing this both IRL and LFS.
EDIT:
Here are two replays of me driving with mouse and KB starting with the 5th gear on a road car with the dreaded autoclutch! Watch the clutch indicator! And enjoy my grandad like driving skillz!
Explicit content! Parental quidance advised.
@JeffR: That's true, usually the pits are left with a short wheelspin instead of a smooth clutch controlled takeoff. That doesn't mean they rev to the redline and drop the clutch, though, which is the biggest factor in the FZR's takeoff clutch heating "problem" we saw in this thread. The clutch would heat up because they used a too long first gear and most likely sat on the redline till the pitstop was finished, which equals massive clutch abuse 
First thing: I like LFS and I know as everyone here knows that it is a WIP, so please don't guide the conversation by this way.
Second thing: I drive since my 18, and I'm 45 now.
I've had faced unnumbered situations since that age driving fast in the streets (I don't recommend) in the chaotic traffic of my country.
I always use manual gears (thing that many europeans and americans don't know). In fact my first time driving with automatic shift was now in LFS. Even in games I always use manual shift.
I had clutch problems once when I was young. My car was very very old, very bad conserved, and the situation was on the limit.
Now I drive my simple domestic cars, with any preparation for races, and I can hold them in a rise without using brakes, doing what we call here "rampa", what means to hold the car controlling the accelerator and clutch pedals. I avoid doing that cause I know that is not good for the clutch, but I can do that for many seconds (not just a fraction of it) and when I go the clutch is well, I can't smell any burned tyre, I can't notice any decrease in the clutch perfomance.
I do that every single day, my car has more than 2 years now, and the clutch keep fine. It doesn't waste 1 mm or 2 in a single start!!! It is an absurd and you all are trying to convincing me to accept that the game is right! It is not right, it is wrong!
In LFS (no matter what perfect your setup be) you can't do any mistake, you can't do any slipage, cause the clutch wastes too fast, in a way that real clutch doesn't waste, and it heats to fast, and lates to back to an acceptable temperature.
I won't post any replay. I don't need to prove what I'm saying.
Even if my driving be not perfect, it does not justify the fact that the clutch wastes too fast. My car has a forgiving clutch like any other car has. It is designed to be forgiving in the real life, and race clutches are bigger, stronger and more resistent, so how can you say that this is right?
Scawen has made a new parameter for race drivers now: keep an eye on the clutch bar. It doesn't exist, it is totally wrong!
There is no pair in the real life!
And about RAC, I like to drive that car, and unfortunatelly it is too rare to find people on the servers using it.
Second thing: I drive since my 18, and I'm 45 now.
I've had faced unnumbered situations since that age driving fast in the streets (I don't recommend) in the chaotic traffic of my country.
I always use manual gears (thing that many europeans and americans don't know). In fact my first time driving with automatic shift was now in LFS. Even in games I always use manual shift.
I had clutch problems once when I was young. My car was very very old, very bad conserved, and the situation was on the limit.
Now I drive my simple domestic cars, with any preparation for races, and I can hold them in a rise without using brakes, doing what we call here "rampa", what means to hold the car controlling the accelerator and clutch pedals. I avoid doing that cause I know that is not good for the clutch, but I can do that for many seconds (not just a fraction of it) and when I go the clutch is well, I can't smell any burned tyre, I can't notice any decrease in the clutch perfomance.
I do that every single day, my car has more than 2 years now, and the clutch keep fine. It doesn't waste 1 mm or 2 in a single start!!! It is an absurd and you all are trying to convincing me to accept that the game is right! It is not right, it is wrong!
In LFS (no matter what perfect your setup be) you can't do any mistake, you can't do any slipage, cause the clutch wastes too fast, in a way that real clutch doesn't waste, and it heats to fast, and lates to back to an acceptable temperature.
I won't post any replay. I don't need to prove what I'm saying.
Even if my driving be not perfect, it does not justify the fact that the clutch wastes too fast. My car has a forgiving clutch like any other car has. It is designed to be forgiving in the real life, and race clutches are bigger, stronger and more resistent, so how can you say that this is right?
Scawen has made a new parameter for race drivers now: keep an eye on the clutch bar. It doesn't exist, it is totally wrong!
There is no pair in the real life!
And about RAC, I like to drive that car, and unfortunatelly it is too rare to find people on the servers using it.
Well the clutch isn't wasted in LFS because there is no clutch wear or damage. It does heat up though. However with the normal road cars I have yet to overheat it even when roughing them up in a rallycross track and I do use autoclutch which IMO is a tad too perfectionist and likes to engage itself at the slightest opportunity.
AFAIK from reading several posts in other threads from this subject it was generally accepted that typical car racing clutches (not specialized for drag racing, drifting or whatever) are strong, small, light and grippier and not made to slip therefore they will generate alot of heat if they do slip.
But it would help in making people stop trying to disprove you, no? Evidence in an argument is a good thing generally - it helps people understand.
If you want to be taken seriously then you need proof. Otherwise you are just shooting of your mouth.
- First of all, we europeans don't always use auto-tanny.
- Secondly, you are saying something and don't need to prove your statement. Then I will say that earth is flat, and I don't have to prove it! You are all wrong! It is flat!
- Thirdly, if you would attach reply and your setup, we won't have to fight this. Well, I don't care if you have problems with clutch, but because so many don't have, so..
I don't know how you got that idea, manual is by far the most used transmission type in Europe.
The clutch doesn't wear (or "waste" as you call it) in LFS at all. Only heating is modelled.
If anything I'd say that I can't find how the clutch heat issue adds anything because it surely doesn't stop flatshifting - the only race-related incident I can see it coming to play is in spin recovery if someone is forgetful with the autoclutch and a high gear.
But as I see it it seems to be part of the reworked clutch model, which hopefully is part of a coming reworked drivetrain model which in turn hopefully will include more complex damage.
But as I see it it seems to be part of the reworked clutch model, which hopefully is part of a coming reworked drivetrain model which in turn hopefully will include more complex damage.
My point was that the clutches virtually don't slip, only the tires. In F1 type race cars, with small 4 lb flywheels, they are using high rpms and heavy throttle to launch. Note that a typical F1 race car has 1st gear set for about 85mph to 100mph, depending on the track.
My Suzuki Hayabusa, 175hp, 750lb, doesn't have anywhere near the power to weight ratio of a F1 race car (800hp, 1400lb), and it's 1st gear redlines at 81mph. The drag racers slip the heck out of the stock clutches on bikes like these, and get quite a few runs before having to replace the clutch packs.
I don't see how spinning itself a car is going to overheat the clutch, regardless of gear or throttle position. If in a low gear the tires will slip, if in a high gear the engine will end up spinning backwards. Trying to take off in a high gear after a spin could heat up a clutch, but not the spin itself. If a LFS car gets hit hard, then clutch damage sometimes happens.
[quote]Flat shifting with auto-clutch isn't an issue if you flat shift close enough to redline so the engine rpms don't raise before dropping because of the gear shift. I have a replay of this in a LX6:
jrbllx6.spr
Still this doesn't mean the clutch heating is bug-free. Tall gearing shouldn't be an issue. I've driven a car with a tall first gear (62mph) and a light flywheel (Caterham SV with 250hp), and it required a lot of clutch slipping and throttle to launch, even in stop and go traffic, and it never overheated the clutch.
It will heat up in LFS when using autoclutch when starting up, which is what I mentioned earlier. It's all too eager to slip it for you. That's likely why you get clutch heat when the car is hit hard as well, instantaneous autoclutch.
I don't know how often this has to be explained, because I surely remember doing it several times already, but spinning in LFS does not heat the clutch.
Trying to accelerate while driving backwards with autoclutch enabled does.
I never had any problems with the clutch. Lift off the gas while shifting, and you won't have any problems at all. And yes, clutch can cool down.
Didn't think about the autoclutch issue while going backwards at high speeds. I do recall that going slow while in a high gear with autoclutch enabled was an issue, since it let's the clutch slip. I put the LX6 into 6th gear and slowed to 10mph, then went full throttle, and the clutch slipped until I reach about 30mph. Two cycles of this and the clutch was gone. With auto-clutch off, there was no clutch slippage or heat issue, as expected.
Does autoclutch slip the clutch if going backwards at high speeds in a tall gear? If autoclutch isn't on, and the driver doesn't use the clutch, does the engine end up spinning backwards, killing it?
If the goal of this was to stop no lift shifts (what I call flat shifting), it didn't do it as shown in the replay below. I used auto-clutch and did full throttle, no lift shifts on the LX6 at Blackwood and only got about 2 slivers of orange on the clutch heat, which remained about the same on a 3 lap run.
jrbllx6.spr
This thread is closed
Clutch, still!
(184 posts, closed, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG