A little off track, but I'll get back to the core issue in a little while:

IMO the perfect racing game would be one which is founded on a super-realistic physics engine (like the one in LFS) but where the racers can select different difficulties. So the arcade people could turn on all sorts of aids and have fun wrecking each other on closed servers. Then there'd be the intermediate servers, which have some restrictions on aids, and finally the pure-sim servers. (for the rich bastards. ) Since all this would be found in the same game, the game would appeal to many people, which again would generate lots of ££ to the developers. Hence they could afford to hire lots of guys to improve graphics and stuff to GT5-levels. One game suits all.

But since this is not where LFS is today, I suggest a compromise: how about having dedicated servers for people using manual shifting and no aids whatsoever? Would that help? Then you'd know that you'd be racing against like minded people. However I'm afraid the userbase isn't large enough to provide much interesting racing on these servers..

Quote from gezmoor :

Well all fine and good if LFS is considered a hobby. Unfortunately for your point of view the vast majority see it as a game, sure a relatively immersive one but a game none the less. At best it will only ever become a tool for real racers to hone their skills without having to pay through the nose for track testing time. Is that where you would like to see LFS ending up? as a testing tool for those already privileged enough to be involved in motorsport that no one else can afford?? I don't that's for sure.

Do you know how much a full motion simulator costs??

Sure for the money you mention, you can get the likes of these:

http://www.simmotion.eu/index. ... 1011&l=1&menulist=

but in all honesty they are just toys in terms of serious simulators. Real civil aviation flight simulators cost around £10 million ! Of course a race car one will be much cheaper as it has a relatively low tech cockpit in comparison, and the physics of cars on circuits is much simpler than an Airbus flying through turbulence. But, I am certain a full motion driving simulator of the same standard as a real flight simulator is going to cost a lot more than 10,000 pounds let alone Euros. Orders of magnitude more I suspect.

...Who said I am going to buy overly expensive aftermarket products? Why shouldn't I design and build my own version..? Not everyone here are idiot minors, you know..? I have studied n years robotics and hydraulics in university of technology... I have done harder equipments. For example, turret that fires everything that moves, if the target don't have IFF-signature. And G-force seat don't require much. G-forces are sent via outgauge, right..?

Quote from The Moose :

As £100 is practically free would you mind sending £100 to everyone here that cant afford a clutch pedal setup please.


Quite frankly your completely arrogant,elitist attitude is a bit disturbing.

Your saying that all people that aren't in a favourable economic situation shouldn't be allowed to enjoy their hobby. If we cant afford the best equipment then we should just stop playing?

May i suggest you step away form your computer and go out in the world and have a look around. There are a lot of people on this planet, even in 'wealthy' countries that are living on or below the breadline. People that have to scrimp and save for every last thing.

Just because i cant afford a G25 i should pack in my hobby?

**** off. Pull your head out of your arse and look beyond your own narrow minded little world.

...If you can't afford it, build your own clutch pedal. Hint: Leo Bodnar (For example). Or just use one of the buttons in your wheel. If you can't afford a clutch pedal, then you don't require analog clutch... I played LFS using mouse & keyboard, and I used manual clutch. No problems with it...

And I am not rich. If I can afford G25, anyone who works can also afford it. You can save that kind of money easily. It takes from a week to couple of months...

And no need to insult me. Or is there?

Quote from Gekkibi :

And no need to insult me. Or is there?

Yes there is.

Do you know anything about my life? Do you know anything about my situation?
No you don't, so don't just assume i can jump into a job and save that money in no time.

People like you who equate everything to how they live their lives (The "I can do it so you must be able to" mentality) really piss me off no end.

Quote from The Moose :

Yes there is.

Do you know anything about my life? Do you know anything about my situation?
No you don't, so don't just assume i can jump into a job and save that money in no time.

People like you who equate everything to how they live their lives (The "I can do it so you must be able to" mentality) really piss me off no end.

There are two possible thesis in the universe:
- Life isn't fair. There is no balance between individuals. Someone is smarter than other or more beautiful than other.
- Walt Disney -movie endings.

Guess which one is closer to reality.

I just don't get how £100 is so difficult to have. Even cleaner/garbage-driver earns more than that in a week (After he/she pays rent, food and everything else). Or if you are a minor, save your weekly pocket-money. Don't hang at the mall with your "friends", don't buy fancy fashion clothes, don't eat fast-food every day, etc. Or if you are unemployed/student, I guess you can get money somewhere (In Finland we have great social security services. No one is left behind (Except students, which gets less money than a bum that have been unemployed for over thirty years)).

Quote from Gekkibi :

There are two possible thesis in the universe:
- Life isn't fair. There is no balance between individuals. Someone is smarter than other or more beautiful than other.
- Walt Disney -movie endings.

Guess which one is closer to reality........<snip>

It's pointless even talking too you as you seem incapable of understanding what I'm saying.

Trust me, i know all about reality, it's you that seems to be having the difficulty understanding the real world, as clearly demonstrated by your " I just don't get how £100 is so difficult to have" comment.

I know people that are working their arses off for 60 hours a week that have NO spare cash at all. Nothing extra at all after the essentials.

Ahh, **** it, you simply haven't got a grasp of reality. I cant be bothered to continue this.

Go and carry on living in ignorance.

*sigh* Good riddance, then.
If I wasn't listening you, you weren't listening me either... Point me a person who doesn't get ANY cash after he pays his rent & other things. NOT after he buys his alcohol and tobacco, for instance...

Edit: Oh, and if he can't earn anything, how come he is still playing LFS? He won't get money by doing that. Backfired...

Quote from Gekkibi :

*sigh* Good riddance, then.
If I wasn't listening you, you weren't listening me either... Point me a person who doesn't get ANY cash after he pays his rent & other things. NOT after he buys his alcohol and tobacco, for instance...

Edit: Oh, and if he can't earn anything, how come he is still playing LFS? He won't get money by doing that. Backfired...

Did you actually read my last post? did i not make it clear that i know people that work 60 hours a week and have NO SPARE CASH. I think i did.

Did i say anything about them playing LFS? Backfired? what the hell are you on about now?


Get a grip on reality.

Quote from The Moose :

Did you actually read my last post? did i not make it clear that i know people that work 60 hours a week and have NO SPARE CASH. I think i did.

Did i say anything about them playing LFS? Backfired? what the hell are you on about now?


Get a grip on reality.

Well, do you know any LFS users who works 60 hours a week and have no spare cash..? If he don't have spare cash, he won't be able to buy any controller, or even license... Or computer..?

If it didn't backfired earlier, now it did.

Quote from Gekkibi :

Well, do you know any LFS users who works 60 hours a week and have no spare cash..? If he don't have spare cash, he won't be able to buy any controller, or even license... Or computer..?

If it didn't backfired earlier, now it did.

Of course i know people that have a computer,controllers, etc that work but have now have no spare cash.
Peoples circumstances change. Just because your a bit flush one month doesn't mean you cant find yourself skint and in debt another.

The only person this is backfiring on is you. You show your ignorance more in every post.

I'm outta here. This is going nowhere as you are another one of those people who can't see that their skewed vision of the world is not how it really is for a lot of people.

Gekkibi, what about the simple fact that they'd rather spend thier money on something else?

I got a DFP I paid for LFS and RBR, why should I stick more cash into sim racing? Its just a game, and I have other stuff I want to spend my spare cash on.

OH NOES! I must not be dedicated to the cause of simracing! I MUST QUIT NOW DELETE LFS AND SELL MY LICENSE TO SOME ONE WHO WILL APPRECEATE IT MORE!!!

Sorry :P, but really its just a game for me and for most people, its not a hobby. Gaming is a hobby for me, I play other games as well, and have a 360, should i put all that on hold just to buy a £100 steering wheel which is exactly the same as my current on except for an extra pedal and by all accounts crappy h-shifter?

Quote from Gekkibi :

*sigh* Good riddance, then.
If I wasn't listening you, you weren't listening me either... Point me a person who doesn't get ANY cash after he pays his rent & other things. NOT after he buys his alcohol and tobacco, for instance...

Edit: Oh, and if he can't earn anything, how come he is still playing LFS? He won't get money by doing that. Backfired...

And for the record, I can play LFS because when broadband became available last year to me, signing up for a new package on my phone bill cost me no more than what I was already paying. Essentially free for me.

Get out in the real world and try to see how things are for normal people.

Quote :

Well, do you know any LFS users who works 60 hours a week and have no spare cash..? If he don't have spare cash, he won't be able to buy any controller, or even license... Or computer..?

It doesn't cost constantly to play LFS. You can play with a 5 year old computer. You could have purchased the license 5 years ago. You don't need a controller to play, only the keyboard/mouse that came with the computer. It's nice how the cost of everything, consumer products and living expenses alike, have risen astronomically the last 5 years, yet pay increases are kept nearly at peanuts. It surely didn't cost me $865 to heat my house for a month and a half 5 years ago. Yes, I just got my bill for my heat, $865. Lucky it is the end of the heating season. I'm scared to death of what it will cost next year come November...

I saved my ass off in a part time job for basically the entire summer of last year. It took me pretty much my entire 3 months holidays to earn ~€800. And then take transport, food, hospital visits (funny story co-incidentally ), etc. out of it. At the end, I came out with around €250. For 3 months work.

Everyone can't afford whatever they want. Simple as.

Quote from mrodgers :

Yes, I just got my bill for my heat, $865.

:jawdrop:

WTF!!?!

Hydroponics?

edit: seriously, how can that be? Are you using a bank of blowtorches to heat a barn?

"Wake up to the reality". I am awake, and it is like that in here. I am glad my eyes are not in that ***hole where everything is oddly much more expensive. I tought Finland was expensive... Paid around 235€ for my G25. According to xe.com (Next you say that it isn't reliable source of information..?) : 100.00 GBP = 124.755 EUR

Sorry, there is still missing 100€ to get G25 in Finland. I presumed that G25 costs 100£ in GB, because that amount was said earlier... Everything is more expensive in here...

And it is not my fault that if middle-aged man have to work 60 hours per week on a shitty job only because he don't have education. That is purely his fault. Why did he smoked pot 20 years ago instead of studied..? Or was it too dumb for university? Then he'll have to work long hours for no-pay... Like I said: Life isn't fair.

edit: never mind

Quote from Gekkibi :

"And it is not my fault that if middle-aged man have to work 60 hours per week on a shitty job only because he don't have education. That is purely his fault.

If i wanted to reply honestly to that comment i would be banned from the forum.

Unf******believable.

well done gekkibi, you're obviously a winner at life, now you just wait right there whilst I go and dig out your medal.

Suddently everyone is against me, only because I shared what I tought... Interesting.

Well, who to blame if someone is not earning enough..? The goverment? The employer?

And all this only because imho (Do you know what word "opinion" means..?) auto-clutch should be removed.

Next time you suggest anything, or share your opinions, I would instantly blame you for everything? Sure, you have been on the forum longer than I have. Sure, you have lived longer than I have. But does that automatically make you any smarter or wiser..?

Quote from Gekkibi :

Sure, you have lived longer than I have. But does that automatically make you any smarter or wiser..?

In this case, the answer is obviously yes.

Quote from The Moose :

In this case, the answer is obviously yes.

*sigh* You truly are an elitist/age-racist... Luckily, you die sooner than I...

Quote from Gekkibi :

*sigh* You truly are an elitist/age-racist... Luckily, you die sooner than I...

..At least i wont die ignorant.

And saying that if you can't afford (or don't want to get) a new steering wheel you should stop playing isn't elitist?

I earn enough to by a g25, that isn't the problem, the problem is right now I:
A: already have a perfectly good working wheel and can't justify spending money on a new one and
B: have better things to spend my money on other then sim racing.

Quote from fragile_dog :

And saying that if you can't afford (or don't want to get) a new steering wheel you should stop playing isn't elitist?

I earn enough to by a g25, that isn't the problem, the problem is right now I:
A: already have a perfectly good working wheel and can't justify spending money on a new one and
B: have better things to spend my money on other then sim racing.

You don't have to stop playing LFS. There are keyboard/mouse users who uses manual clutch.
a) The point is you don't have to buy a new wheel. If you think you don't need clutch pedal, then you don't need.
b) Ok, so you are prioritizing your money to something else. That is ok. For example, I have several hobbies (Some cheaper than others), and I prioritize my extra money on something, one at a time.

And lets see where this blaming began...

Quote from The Moose :

**** off. Pull your head out of your arse and look beyond your own narrow minded little world.

Oh, ya. Didn't took too long to found out the source. Nicely done. It is mark of true wisdom to say something like that to a person you don't know.

Quote from Gekkibi :

It is mark of true wisdom to say something like that to a person you don't know.

You don't have to know someone to reply to their extremely ignorant, narrow minded view of the world, when they post it on a public forum.

If you say stupid things in public then anyone has the right to reply to them.

Wisdom has nothing to do with it.

Quote from The Moose :

You don't have to know someone to reply to their extremely ignorant, narrow minded view of the world, when they post it on a public forum.

If you say stupid things in public then anyone has the right to reply to them.

Wisdom has nothing to do with it.

Read my posts before your first post again. Only way I "offended" you was when I said "Life isn't fair". Jesus. Really. Go to a therapist or something.

Is it wrong to say my ideology on a public forum? Imho "life isn't fair" works, even you don't want it to work. Do you get everything you want? No? Someone else can have. See, It works.