...where´s the problem?

Report them all to the Barricade and let the admins settle it...

Quote :

..where´s the problem?

Report them all to the Barricade and let the admins settle it...

This is not a solution.

It is no longer working, I asked SamH about this yesterday and this is not going to help us as hosts to block cheaters from fair racing servers.

We need something else, we need it now before this grows further. Today 3 more bans already on the BF1 oval server. We are now up to at least 20 x 999 day bans across 4 servers.

Quote :

At the end, this is the only thing we can do for now and it really is a shame that we dont get any support from the moderators of this forum. Instead, they support cheaters with this rather strange policy.

Totally agree. Something needs to be done now and this would allow us at least some protection.

Best, Maz

Yesterday afternoon I started on a replacement for the barricade. It's effectively the same system, but comes with things like feeds of accepted bans, etc. so that it can help facilitate automatically banning people who are deemed a problem (this would of course be the call of the administrators). I'm also planning a few things in the future, such as a tool to merge ban files, and the submission of ban files from some trusted sources.

I've not had the opportunity to work on it today or this evening, but I'm hoping to have a basic version ready by the end of the week if I can. It will have some of the back catalog of the existing barricade entries.

With regards to the moderators not supporting name and shame threads - it's been discussed and naming the individual in the thread isn't acceptable, however simply posting a replay is reasonable. This allows everyone to make up their own minds without a predetermined judgement affecting any decision.

Karl, the feed will be done via RSS or (the old barricade used) email? In my opinion, I still dislike the idea of automatic bannings, I'd still rather have the server operators have the last word, and have the barricade being an informations system. You can do what you want, but it's just my personal input.

Just my thoughts

The feeds would be totally optional as would be be any automatic system. I would never force this on anyone at all, but I know personally I'd prefer to trust the judgement of the participating admins than to manually go through each ban and check the replay. But that's just because I'm fairly hands off with my servers.

The web gui will still be there for server admins who want to check the notes themselves, or email system available if people wish. The feeds are currently both RSS and Atom, defaulting to Atom.

There is also a "check the barricade" feature working. The only thing I really need to do is just bung together a robust admin interface and give it a good testing before I let everyone loose on it.

Quote :

With regards to the moderators not supporting name and shame threads - it's been discussed and naming the individual in the thread isn't acceptable, however simply posting a replay is reasonable. This allows everyone to make up their own minds without a predetermined judgement affecting any decision.

Many thanks for the clarification there Angry Angel.

Great news that your working on the replacement, many thanks for the efforts and look forward to seeing it live.

Best, Maz

Im not saying this in a bad way, but people making stuff to report hackers still doesnt hide the fact lfs has a hole in it. Which should be fixed, I have no clue why it isnt already tbh.

Quote from mcgas001 :

Im not saying this in a bad way, but people making stuff to report hackers still doesnt hide the fact lfs has a hole in it.

Congratulations on pointing out the obvious?

No one said that the barricade was the perfect solution. It's better than **** all else though.

Quote from mcgas001 :

Which should be fixed, I have no clue why it isnt already tbh.

I have no idea how the team develop LFS, but the "delay" could be the result of anything from code management to Scawen feeling that backtracking and producing a compatible patch with the fix would be a waste of time given his progress on other parts of LFS so far.

When you look at the number of cheaters in this thread, or the number of users that Mazer has banned over a given period, it's not all that of a significant number when you consider the size of the userbase, or the rough number of online users during a given day. Quite frankly I'm surprised that it's not more prevalent than it is.

OK, Let me tell you something. Demoers like to have a few racing tests before downloading the game. I know, I did for 3 months. Currently on Patch Y demo (As advertised on LFS.Net!) You goto a demo server and you cannot race for love nor money. There is a hacker in every server. Now, Please tell me, Would you buy a game if that was the first impression?

Im just saying, I sent this hack to Victor a long time ago, and still nothing has been done. Makes no difference to me, I rarely play now anyway....

Oh, Im also not the only one thinking this is been going on for too long. Look at birders post...

This might sound a bit harsh now, but seeing that a few idiots try to ruin the fun of ten thousands of people I'm completely FOR naming cheaters.
I'm sure the mighty ones have seen the problem and I'm also sure they can't sleep atm finding out a proper solution to this issue.
If I find someone cheating on one of Concept racing servers, or if a reliable friend tells me that person xxx used some kind of speedhack even ONCE on an online server he is going to get a lifetime ban immediately (I'd go and mark my calendar so I can resume the ban when the 999 days are over!)
I can totally understand if someone wants to achieve a certain goal in a singleplayer game and uses a cheat (everyone has done it). But this is not okay if it changes other player's game experience in any way.

greetz

der butz

Scawen will fix the hack, like he has fixed them before. He may not be able to rush out a fix right away, none of us know what is happening in LFS dev right now, but it will get fixed and it will get fixed right. LFS development is never fast, you need to learn some patience.

Quote from mcgas001 :

OK, Let me tell you something. Demoers like to have a few racing tests before downloading the game. I know, I did for 3 months. Currently on Patch Y demo (As advertised on LFS.Net!) You goto a demo server and you cannot race for love nor money. There is a hacker in every server. Now, Please tell me, Would you buy a game if that was the first impression?

The DEMO has always had problems. LFS as a whole has seen wreckers, cheaters, drifters and a whole host of other things.

Whilst I rarely get in servers these days I can tell you that things like this tend to happen in cycles. I've been around LFS longer than most so I can remember most of the exploits, arguments and other issues over the recent years. So you'll have to please forgive me if I'm not quite as frantic or concerned about the situation as I apparently should be?

I'm not saying that I know everything that goes on because I obviously don't, and I'll happily admit that. However the DEMO has always been a problem and by it's nature it's been uncontrollable. The changes have that been introduced recently in test patches should help significantly to give DEMO racers a little bit of accountability and should help stem this behaviour.

Quote from mcgas001 :

Im just saying, I sent this hack to Victor a long time ago, and still nothing has been done.

I'm not here to defend sides and I obviously can't comment for the developers. The moderation team know nothing more about the development of LFS than the general public. However, I am here to keep the peace, so don't mistake me for being a fanboy or eternally optimistic. It's not in my nature. Nor is being polite.

What I am trying to be is realistic about what us lowly racers and moderators can do about the situation.

Quote from mcgas001 :

Makes no difference to me, I rarely play now anyway....

I've also been getting a faint itching between a pair of my toes. I thought it was just atheletes foot, but it could be I'm due for some travel perhaps?

Quote from mcgas001 :

Oh, Im also not the only one thinking this is been going on for too long. Look at birders post...

No one has said that it's not gone on long enough, but I'm trying to put it in perspective.

An annoyance it is, but end of the force it is not.

If the community deam that any work on a barricade system is a waste of time I'll happily stop working on it. I've got other things I'd rather do, quite frankly.

Quote from der butz :

This might sound a bit harsh now, but seeing that a few idiots try to ruin the fun of ten thousands of people I'm completely FOR naming cheaters.

Feel free to post mpr's so people can make up their own minds.

Quote from Mazar :

It is no longer working, I asked SamH about this yesterday and this is not going to help us as hosts to block cheaters from fair racing servers.

I just want to clarify, it's not that it isn't working any more, it is. It's not being managed or improved and as Karl has pointed out, he's working on a new and vastly improved version.

The old barricade is still receiving reports and MPR uploads, and the information is still being added to the site (apart from a few hours yesterday, while our server was being physically relocated). According to the site stats, it's also being visited by server ops who are picking up the information that is being added. Even though, until very recently, it hasn't been particularly needed it hasn't ceased operations.

I'm very excited about the prospect of a new barricade, especially since it's coming from Karl. The old barricade was very much cobbled together and built upon from a very basic reporting system I wrote back in the TeamUKCC days. The new one, however, promises to be the bees gonads and I can barely wait to join up Karl volunteered some time ago to take over the barricade, because I simply don't have time to do it. He can also do clever things that I can't because he's much more multi-disciplinary than I am, and can make web:server interactions happen that I can't even fudge a comprehension of.

Defence against wreckers and cheaters, IMO, has always been principally in the domain of the community. As Karl says, none of us on the outside know the details of the order of code that Scawen develops. I have absolutely no doubt that, as soon as it is viable to do so, Scawen will be releasing a version of LFS that will block the current spate of cheats. Only Scawen knows when that will be viable. All we know is that Scawen doesn't want cheats on LFS servers any more than any of us. That's just plain stating the obvious.

Quote from SamH :

I'm very excited about the prospect of a new barricade, especially since it's coming from Karl. The old barricade was very much cobbled together and built upon from a very basic reporting system I wrote back in the TeamUKCC days. The new one, however, promises to be the bees gonads and I can barely wait to join up

Gee thanks for that(!) Trust me I'm no genius at all, I do nothing more than dabble with programming (some people seem to have the misapprehension that it's my job - my job is basically (system|network|desktop) administration), and I'd like to downplay Sam's statement that it'll be the bee's bollocks (sorry, couldn't resist the alliteration). The first version is very much cobbled together quickly, although it should be "working" after a fashion.

Now sam, get off your ass and come help me with this site please.

Karl, I'm sure it'll be good too.

hehe! Okay, well then the most important difference in the changeover is that the new system will be receiving the attention it needs.. something the old system hasn't had from me for a long time. For server operators who want a fastrak to solving the wreck/cheat issues, the future is bright

@ Dustin.. wimp! I'm gonna go eat chilli and then I'll fart my way through your CSS code

Actually, the site is done, I just need help with the content and function

I'm proud of it, It's actually XHTML 1.0 Strict standards compliant, unlike a certain other CTRA site *cough*.

Piss off, it complies with my standards, bastard!

Quote from the_angry_angel :

The DEMO has always had problems. LFS as a whole has seen wreckers, cheaters, drifters and a whole host of other things.

I agree to that, but not to the extent where every server is impossible to race on.

Quote from the_angry_angel :

Whilst I rarely get in servers these days I can tell you that things like this tend to happen in cycles. I've been around LFS longer than most so I can remember most of the exploits, arguments and other issues over the recent years. So you'll have to please forgive me if I'm not quite as frantic or concerned about the situation as I apparently should be?

I'm not saying that I know everything that goes on because I obviously don't, and I'll happily admit that. However the DEMO has always been a problem and by it's nature it's been uncontrollable. The changes have that been introduced recently in test patches should help significantly to give DEMO racers a little bit of accountability and should help stem this behaviour.

Maybe you need to wake up a little, Seen as LFS is prolly the most popular race sim around, Or should I say...was?

Quote from the_angry_angel :

I'm not here to defend sides and I obviously can't comment for the developers. The moderation team know nothing more about the development of LFS than the general public. However, I am here to keep the peace, so don't mistake me for being a fanboy or eternally optimistic. It's not in my nature. Nor is being polite.

Ahh, I see. Cant be nice, Nor polite, So you will just threat. Great idea! Im really scared.

Quote from the_angry_angel :

I've also been getting a faint itching between a pair of my toes. I thought it was just atheletes foot, but it could be I'm due for some travel perhaps?

Fire away, Maybe as far away from the UK as possible?

Quote from the_angry_angel :

No one has said that it's not gone on long enough, but I'm trying to put it in perspective.

An annoyance it is, but end of the force it is not.

If the community deam that any work on a barricade system is a waste of time I'll happily stop working on it. I've got other things I'd rather do, quite frankly.

Whilst your barricade might be a good idea, As I said above. It doesnt hide the fact LFS has a big hole that needs fixing, Or else it will hurt LFS.

Quote from fat-oil :

Dont tell me you want a world full of respect, that ain't really showing the way to build.

oh shut up will you and buy S2?

Quote from mcgas001 :

Ahh, I see. Cant be nice, Nor polite, So you will just threat. Great idea! Im really scared.

You've misinterpreted my meaning here. There was no threat, just a simple confession that I'm finding it hard not to fill my posts with ****, **** and bastard, or just saying "you smell funny" or "so's your face" and then leaving it at that.

My point was that being altruistic, polite and upbeat is not in my nature and that I was trying instill the understanding that getting uptight about it isn't going to solve anything. In short if I can do it, why not you guys?

Look at it from this point of view. Cheaters and wreckers on LFS aren't a business critical concern to anyone else outside of the LFS hosting business and the LFS developers themselves.

Yes when you run a server you'll come across them and it'll be annoying, but if you care that much you'll be much more vigilant against this sort of behaviour.

Quote from mcgas001 :

Whilst your barricade might be a good idea, As I said above. It doesnt hide the fact LFS has a big hole that needs fixing, Or else it will hurt LFS.

It's not my barricade and it was never my idea. No one is trying to hide the hole. The barricade is nothing more than a simple way of addressing the low hanging servers which aren't policed as stringently.

I actively encourage you to post replays of offenders.

Quote from the_angry_angel :

You've misinterpreted my meaning here. There was no threat, just a simple confession that I'm finding it hard not to fill my posts with ****, **** and bastard, or just saying "you smell funny" or "so's your face" and then leaving it at that.

Awww, Tough old world isnt it.

Quote from the_angry_angel :

I actively encourage you to post replays of offenders.

OK, These are just _some_ ive got from this very forum.

Must I continue......?

Quote from mcgas001 :

Awww, Tough old world isnt it.

Maybe I put the paragraph spacing in the wrong place there. I fear you've either misread or misinterpreted my point. But lets leave it at that.

Quote from mcgas001 :

Must I continue......?

If you feel that's how you can best serve the community then yes

Quote from the_angry_angel :

Maybe I put the paragraph spacing in the wrong place there. I fear you've either misread or misinterpreted my point. But lets leave it at that.

Sounds like a good idea, You knew I was right all along.

Quote from the_angry_angel :

My point was that being altruistic, polite and upbeat is not in my nature..

Quote from the_angry_angel :

If you feel that's how you can best serve the community then yes

I'll spell it out then..

What good is moaning going to do? The developers are aware of this issue and are working on it in some way, shape or form. Moaning and griping about it isn't going to change the situation or speed up the fix.

Accept that this is out of our control and then learn to live with it for now.

Understand that it's not life or death. Cheer the **** up. Stop being a miserable ****.

Yes it's relatively prevelant amongst certain people in the community, but if you care that much about keeping things clean. I mean seriously really care, then you'll have people watching over your server(s) regularly anyway.

Quote from mcgas001 :

You've been told that posting replays is allowed. What more do you want aside from a fix? A work around is the best that can be done for the moment.