Well, played it today for a bit. Got a 1:45.861 if thats any good.

Have to say, physics are appalling and theres no feeling from the brakes. They basically start to properly function when you have the brake pedal at 80%-90%. Second thing is that if you shift down like mad from 7th to 2nd, the rears don't lock AT ALL but once you go to 1st, it decides to lock and then when it does, its not exactly an instant spin, no, it just does a tiny skid which is completely controllable.

Was considering buying NkPro soon but after trying out this, its disastrous!. I'll just wait for someone to convert it to rFactor and play MMG F1 2007 with it

Quote from Leprekaun :

theres no feeling from the brakes. They basically start to properly function when you have the brake pedal at 80%-90%.

Did you click on the 'MIN' box in the controller setup? One of my teammates realised there was a 50% deadzone until he did that. (i copied over my config from nKPro, i have no problem at all with brakes. I use a bigger brake pad as well. I'd be scared to use 80% braking )

Quote from Leprekaun :

Have to say, physics are appalling......

.... I'll just wait for someone to convert it to rFactor

Oh, the irony.

Quote from Shotglass :

ever driven the bf1 without tc for a prolonged time? feels far more alive to me

I did 30 laps of AS historic in the BF1 (without TC of course ) followed by 30 laps of Spa in the nKPro F1 last night.
Neither of them locked up the rears going down the gears. Neither of them were very spinable (Only got slightly sideways exiting the tight 2nd to last corner at AS Historic, and T1 at Spa)
The nKPro car is definitely too stable on corner entry. (still not sure if that's to do with the way i have it setup though) Both felt the same on lower gear (1st to 3rd)corner exits.
Much better feedback from the nKPro car. (As per Kunos' tip i lowered the caster which gave a more 1.02 feel to the FF and enabled me to go up a couple of clicks with the FFgain)
BF1 feels heavier, but feedback is, like all LFS feedback, all a bit dead. (Though I'm still convinced this is probably more to do with the smooth as glass tracks.)

Overall the nKPro F1 car edges it for me. Once the drag/downforce values are corrected it's going to be no contest.

Quote from The Moose :

Oh, the irony.

come on, you got to admit that MMG F1 2007's physics are definitely better than that of NkPro .

Quote from Leprekaun :

come on, you got to admit that MMG F1 2007's physics are definitely better than that of NkPro .

I cant answer that honestly as i gave up on anything to do with rFactor a long time ago, and never will it find a place on my harddrive again. The physics were a joke.

I firmly believe that nothing apart from nKPro and LFS are worth driving currently. They have the best physics of anything currently on the market.

Maybe iRacing will be up there on the physics front, hopefully surpassing LFS and nKPro, but there is not one ISI based sim that i would ever bother with again.

Quote from The Moose :

Neither of them locked up the rears going down the gears.

did you turn the engine brake assist off on the bf1?

[QUOTE]Neither of them were very spinable (Only got slightly sideways exiting the tight 2nd to last corner at AS Historic, and T1 at Spa)

may just be the setup but from what ive seen the nkp f1 always stays fairly neutral and unspinable and never does much worse than push horribly to the outside whereas the bf1 comes very much alive if you dont take corners at just the right speed and therefore downforce
as his might be a bit too boring smooth and flatout for that to really show though

also judging from your vids and my own driving the nkp f1 can take ridiculous amounts of curbing without requiring the slightest bit of driver input to keep it stable

having played a lot of trackmania nations forever lately i gotta say it drives a bit like those cars

Quote from Leprekaun :

Have to say, physics are appalling and theres no feeling from the brakes. They basically start to properly function when you have the brake pedal at 80%-90%. Second thing is that if you shift down like mad from 7th to 2nd, the rears don't lock AT ALL but once you go to 1st, it decides to lock and then when it does, its not exactly an instant spin, no, it just does a tiny skid which is completely controllable.

Current F1 cars have an automatic throttle blip so you should be able to shift down through the gears very quickly without issue or manual input, just like you can in nK, LFS and real life.

Quote from Leprekaun :

come on, you got to admit that MMG F1 2007's physics are definitely better than that of NkPro .

The 2006 version was a complete joke, there are decent rF mods but none of the F1 mods are any good. I'm not even going to start trying to explain everything that is so very wrong with the rF mods but I'd hazard a guess that someone who is producing the driver training simulator for an F1 team (possibly Williams) and has produced the public version of the car with values within 2% of the proper version of the car is probably better placed than some modders who've had no connection to the real thing. Usually I don't get interested by real data or claims that 'real drivers said it's awesome' but when an F1 team has obviously made it worth his while to turn his back to his paying customers it only says good things about the man's potential and understanding of how to model physics, doesn't say a lot about his character though

Quote from The Moose :

Did you click on the 'MIN' box in the controller setup? One of my teammates realised there was a 50% deadzone until he did that. (i copied over my config from nKPro, i have no problem at all with brakes. I use a bigger brake pad as well. I'd be scared to use 80% braking )

This was my problem, unsurprisingly it is suddenly easy to brake in a straight line now

Quote from Shotglass :

did you turn the engine brake assist off on the bf1?

Yup.

Quote from Shotglass :

may just be the setup but from what ive seen the nkp f1 always stays fairly neutral and unspinable and never does much worse than push horribly to the outside whereas the bf1 comes very much alive if you dont take corners at just the right speed and therefore downforce
as his might be a bit too boring smooth and flatout for that to really show though

There is undeniably too much downforce at the moment in the nKPro car, but you can easily get it out of shape on corner exit if you overdo it. I found it very much the same as the BF1 on corner exit in 1st to 3rd gears.

Quote from Shotglass :

also judging from your vids and my own driving the nkp f1 can take ridiculous amounts of curbing without requiring the slightest bit of driver input to keep it stable

Only the curbs that i can take with any other nKPro car tbh. There are plenty that are just dangerous. What do you think was going on in that vid when i took too much at Abbey ? (i really should have shown that from in cockpit)

Quote from Shotglass :

having played a lot of trackmania nations forever lately i gotta say it drives a bit like those cars

You sure as hell ain't driving it hard enough then

I'm not claiming it's perfect, but it's not the same car as your driving by the sounds of it. ( Even ajp71 is sounding positive about it now...something must be right )

Quote from ajp71 :

This was my problem, unsurprisingly it is suddenly easy to brake in a straight line now

Nice to hear that's sorted

Resized Singapore Textures.

Big textures (the biggest textures except for two 5MB .dds files which I can't open)
Small textures (some smaller textures, buildings, logos etc.)
Runs great with highest texture quality setting now And of course the added benefit of the textures not taking half the size of your harddisk

(Thanks to Juha Pyy for those)

Quote from The Moose :

There is undeniably too much downforce at the moment in the nKPro car, but you can easily get it out of shape on corner exit if you overdo it. I found it very much the same as the BF1 on corner exit in 1st to 3rd gears.

hm i never managed to get it out of shape in any gear higher than 2nd
above that and you can just floor it thanks to the massive downforce that you can use... its just completely lacking the zone in which mechanic grip doesnt suffice anymore and aero forces arent strong enough yet that makes the lfs df cars interesting to drive

Quote :

You sure as hell ain't driving it hard enough then

might be but so far its mostly that im either too fast which gives me terminal understeer or im too slow/right on which makes driving the sim about as exciting as walking around in a point and click adventure

Quote from Leprekaun :

come on, you got to admit that MMG F1 2007's physics are definitely better than that of NkPro .

oh god i hope your kidding but i have a funny feeling that your not. MMG is a complete joke the fact you think they can create something realistic is amusing.

Quote from Shotglass :

hm i never managed to get it out of shape in any gear higher than 2nd
above that and you can just floor it thanks to the massive downforce that you can use

If it wasn't so embarrassing i'd do a vid of my testing at Zandvoort , where i managed to continually loose the back end exiting 3rd gear corners. Just flooring it simply wasn't an option

I'm still not claiming it's right....but it does sound like we're driving different sims.

Quote from Shotglass :

also judging from your vids and my own driving the nkp f1 can take ridiculous amounts of curbing without requiring the slightest bit of driver input to keep it stable

Guess what...F1 cars can take ridiculous amounts of curb at Spa and Silverstone without the slightest driver input to keep it stable.

SPA

Alonso http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26snvONnLZU

Me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBwl-QlhIaE

SILVERSTONE

Alonso http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT5Q5ElCQDI

Me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85yoj5QUa3Q

Well, at the end of the day, none of us can determine which is the most realistic F1 simulator since none of us has driven an F1 car in real life but what I'm saying is try to shift down from 7th to 1st very quickly in NkP (the SingTel sim) and watch how the car reacts, do you call that a realistic slide? If the car responds the way it does when that happens, then you can pretty much know how Stefano thinks an F1 car handles and most probably, most of the other things in the physics are wrong.

Perhaps, until now, to be fair to the LFS devs, the BF1 is probably the most realistic as its placed between being a snappy and predictable car which F1 cars these days seem to be but even a crazy sim like F1 07 could've got it right

Quote from Leprekaun :

try to shift down from 7th to 1st very quickly in NkP (the SingTel sim) and watch how the car reacts, do you call that a realistic slide?

From the testing I've done so far there is very little difference from the behaviour of the BF1 under those conditions.

Quote from Leprekaun :

then you can pretty much know how Stefano thinks an F1 car handles and most probably, most of the other things in the physics are wrong.

I don't think its got anything to do with how Stefano 'thinks' an F1 car handles. He got top quality data, and the teams drivers think he's got it right. (ok, admittedly we've heard that before )

He's explained that he wasn't allowed to model the Diff as it is on the real car, and that the Aero/Downforce isn't quite right yet. That may explain some anomalies as it stands at the moment.

Physics is the one thing i actually trust Stefano with. The rest of the process of making his products he generally sucks at, but physics has always been his strong point. It's the main thing that keeps me driving nKPro.

Quote from The Moose :

I don't think its got anything to do with how Stefano 'thinks' an F1 car handles. He got top quality data, and the teams drivers think he's got it right. (ok, admittedly we've heard that before )

What's different this time is we're not being bullshitted by opinions from 'real drivers' who've driven the sim for 5 minutes. Instead it is being used by an F1 team as a driver training (not marketing) tool if this F1 team thought rF was capable of producing a proper driver training tool they'd take the much easier option of licensing the ISI engine and avoid having to deal with an infuriating little man who has mastered race car physics but not customer service

Quote from ajp71 :

What's different this time is we're not being bullshitted by opinions from 'real drivers' who've driven the sim for 5 minutes. Instead it is being used by an F1 team as a driver training (not marketing) tool if this F1 team thought rF was capable of producing a proper driver training tool they'd take the much easier option of licensing the ISI engine and avoid having to deal with an infuriating little man who has mastered race car physics but not customer service

Amen to that.

About the 7th-1st gear thing, F1 cars had engine brake aids in 06 and 07 to prevent the wheels from locking but along with TC, it was banned this year so if Stefano is basing his F1 car on 08, theres certainly something new there .

@Moose: Where'd you get the Toyota skin btw?

Quote from Leprekaun :

About the 7th-1st gear thing, F1 cars had engine brake aids in 06 and 07 to prevent the wheels from locking but along with TC, it was banned this year so if Stefano is basing his F1 car on 08, theres certainly something new there .

AFAIK the cars still have a pre-programed throttle response to gear shifts, which eradicates the need to lift or blip the throttle. The engine braking systems they used to run were not the same thing AFAIK.

Quote from Leprekaun :

@Moose: Where'd you get the Toyota skin btw?

Extract to singtelsim\cars\f1\skins

Quote from The Moose :

Guess what...F1 cars can take ridiculous amounts of curb at Spa and Silverstone without the slightest driver input to keep it stable.

not only do we play different sims we are also apparently watching different vids

especially in the spa one you can see him steer less on the higher curbs in the back section of the track a lot... also you have to keep in mind that those cars did have tc which you can hear cutting in every now and then when he hops a curb on throttle

Right, if there is to be one thing that truly ticks me off about this is the bloody replay system! I just got a PB twice (1:43.164 and just now 1:42.993) but when I click to Save last replay, it records just most of my outlap and thats it . Any trick to this?

Quote from Leprekaun :

but when I click to Save last replay, it records just most of my outlap and thats it . Any trick to this?

No idea..I've seen a few people report this.

I have mine set to record 7 mins and I've not had a problem.

I think I found the problem. NkP doesn't record replays that are only 2 laps long (2 laps over 1 run that is) so I've added a bit more fuel to allow me to do 3 laps and it worked. My replay time is 0.05 off my PB but I'm happy with it

Just out of interest, does anybody here get an illegal operation error when you click setup in the game menu? because everytime I click on it, it gives me an error