I'm sure this is something thats way under the radar but given the number of yellow flags you will see during an (online) race, it would be nice to prohibit passing under a yellow flag.

Enforcement would be tricky, intuitively it could be enforced by requiring the offending driver to give up the position in a certain amount of time or track distance. Not sure though but it would be nice.

I think this is a good idea, however I think it only applies to a full-course caution of some sort. I don't know complete rules of some series, because the passing rule applies to certain racing series.

But my point is, the caution flags right now are just so simple, we don't have to wait for debri to be cleared or whatever, it's just in one area. I guess once the flag system is improved, it would be easier to make penalties like this.

For example:

-Drivers not complying to Blue Flags
-Black Flag system needed
-Once a green flag is shown after the presented yellow flag, it is safe to pass
-Pits open & closed

To name a few

Quote from TheRealEddie :

I'm sure this is something thats way under the radar but given the number of yellow flags you will see during an (online) race, it would be nice to prohibit passing under a yellow flag.

Enforcement would be tricky, intuitively it could be enforced by requiring the offending driver to give up the position in a certain amount of time or track distance. Not sure though but it would be nice.

It would be nice to somehow force cars to take care when yellows appear, but like in real life it is hard to judge. Maybe setting a sector time quicker than a certain threshold for a given car could be used to judge someone (probably) didn't slow for a yellow flag.

In terms of not being allowed to pass how would you determine who you can and can't pass? e.g. if a car (or more than one car) crash and cause a yellow flag you should be able to pass them, but you may not easily identify recovering or crippled cars from someone who just slowed for the yellow in front of them.

If you just had a total 'no passing' rule you might end up with a queue of cars waiting for a spinner to get pointed in the right direction.

I think online racing might be just a little too chaotic for the server to be easily configured to make the right call in all yellow flag situations. e.g. a car simply delayed by a yellow incident should not be passed until the end of the yellow flag but a car that piles in and becomes part of the yellow flag causing incident should be legitimately passed.

Very, very tricky to implement....

Quote from Tweaker :

I think this is a good idea, however I think it only applies to a full-course caution of some sort. I don't know complete rules of some series, because the passing rule applies to certain racing series.

But my point is, the caution flags right now are just so simple, we don't have to wait for debri to be cleared or whatever, it's just in one area. I guess once the flag system is improved, it would be easier to make penalties like this.

For example:

-Drivers not complying to Blue Flags
-Black Flag system needed
-Once a green flag is shown after the presented yellow flag, it is safe to pass
-Pits open & closed

To name a few

Having to comply with blue flags would be nice, but they'd probably have to adjust when they are shown based on more than distance apart- I think at the moment if two cars are fairly evenly paced, the blue is shown a little too early for the car being lapped. It seems to be geared more towards warning slow cars being caught quite quickly. If you had a penalty system based on length of time being shown the blue some people would be forced to back off earlier than ideal to let someone by even though they could probably go for a few more laps without hindering the car they are being shown the blue flag for.

My thoughts mirror Rob76's. It would just be too hard to implement for the reasons he pointed out.

My question is about RL road racing. When is a full course caution implemented and do many happen in road racing? I'm not that experienced in watching road racing. My experience comes from watching Nascar (flame away ) and everyone knows there are many cautions that the pace car comes out and collects the field. I think that would be cool in LFS if say there is a big wreck with X amount of cars, then a full course caution would come out and you would have to abide by a speed limit (after bunching back up behind the leader) until green flag racing can resume (say 1 or 2 laps). Of course it should be a server option as well as an option whether you want caution laps to count or not (for difference between short pickup races and longer league races).

I mostly watch MotoGP, F1 and Aussie V8 Supercars (Yanks oughta love that - they're huge 1500kg four-door 600hp stock-type cars and we're using your 5.7 litre Ford and Chev engines ).

In V8s they turn both ways , go pretty hard and when they smash, they smash good. A full course yellow comes out when there's a big stack and there's crap all over the road, like debris, fluids etc and it requires a big cleanup. A pace car will come out and keep the field honest until the mess is gone. There are plenty of big stacks in V8s as the grids are always very close (1 second often covers the first 10 or so drivers) and the cars and drivers are closely matched. They race these big guns on some tight circuits too, eg. Adelaide (short version of the GP circuit, awesome) and Canberra (not used anymore - too tight) are two tight street circuits. They also race at the Indy street track on the Gold Coast, which, like the two above, lends itself well to wall-bashing and car-destroying. The legendary Bathurst track (among other road courses) has some very tricky mountain parts in it too, and during the annual 1000km enduro there are always a few shunts that have the whole field backed up until the mess is gone. I think it's similar in F1 too, although there aren't as many full-course yellows (and they don't last as long when they happen) because it's quicker to lift a 500kg F1 car with a crane than it is to winch a 1500kg Supercar onto a flatbed truck.

And that's the short version

Regarding full course yellow's, they are unneccessary as debris and such is instantly removed (as opposed to IRL). Other than for the immersion factor I'm opposed to any full course flags.

The yellow flags Im talking about would be sector flags. When the yellow flag goes up in a sector there is no passing until you enter the next sector with a green flag (or the same sector with the yellow flag being changed from yellow to green). I like the GPL approach with flags where you actually see the marshall and the flags. Again, I understand that is a low development priority though.

Lastly, I am aganst any form of "taking control of the car" to enforce flag rules. You can enforce the yellow flag rule by requiring the violating driver to give up the spot with the reprocussion of not doing so within a certain amount of time (or track distance) a stop and go penalty. There would have to be some code to make sure that the driver who was passed hasn't crashed (or stopped on the track) which would make it impossible for the driver who made the yellow flag pass to be overtaken. In any case, it does seem like a coding job .

Oh, and blue flags go off wayyyy to soon. Often the lead lap driver is barely visibile in my mirror (with decent LODs) and the flag is up. Well, I'm not lapped that often =P

First improve the yellow-flag-recognition and then think about a penalty for not following a yellow flag.

Vain

I like to see a good flag system ,but its hard to improve.

1. the flags have to be shown by a man, from the wayside. (but first, I like to see a well dressed pit crew )
2. As I know the yellow flag (and few others of course) have two levels. The first, when the falg is just shown. In this case the driver can take over. This is just a warn.
The second is when the flag is waving. In this case, you cant pass, and you have to slow down ... etc

The global yellow flag would be fine, with speed limit (majorly in oval), but hard to observe.
I think the best would be an AI controlled safety car, and who pass, or hits it, get a penalty. Generally in S3, when a huge amount of debris could be in the track, and needs maybe a minute to diappear The safety car could come, just when about 5-10 car damages, in the same turn.
This is a really complex system

The sector yellow flag ... For this needs other improvements, I think
The first, is to see in a map, which sector dangerous. The whole sector have to be yellow, so you can see where is the end of the yellow flagged part.
On the other hand, one sector is too big, to go slow, and try to not pass anybody. It contains about 4-5 turns, and just one of them dangerous.
Maybe in the oval, it can be managed, but on the other tracks

Huh, it became too long Sorry for it, and for my bad english

Many variations can be implemented thru insim.

Speed limit under yellow flag (easy)
No overtaking under yellow flag (unreliable)
Forced complying to blue flag within set time limit/distance (bit weird)

The thing i'd like the most is hosts being able to specify flag rules, when do blue flag not apply, can you pass during yellow, etc. (f12?)

Not with a welcome message, but as a feature of the server

Edit: seeing parts of the map in yellow is a great idea
Doesn't have to be an _entire_ sector, lfs tracks are split in nodes, could "yellow" an amount of nodes.

Overtaking under yellow flag isn't "impossible" in RL too. You'll just get a penalty if you do it. That's how easy it is, and that is very easy to do in the game.

Vain

Quote from thisnameistaken :

As soon as a yellow flag pops up, slow down and start weaving all over the track. Let's see those bastards overtake you now!

:huepfenic

Quote from Vain :

Overtaking under yellow flag isn't "impossible" in RL too. You'll just get a penalty if you do it. That's how easy it is, and that is very easy to do in the game.

Vain

And what happens if somebody spins out in front of me? Or just a wrecker (the new term is flagger ) hits the brake just for fun? Who get a penalty?

Yellow flag enforcement really isn't something for public servers. And on other servers yellow-flag-enforcement isn't needed because the drivers are sensable. Currently the yellow-flag doesn't even work correctly, neither does the blue flag, so an enforcement is absolutely impossible. You might aswell give random penalties to anyone on the server.

Vain

To answer the question clearly about yellow flags, the rest of the world tend to follow FIA rules.

A yellow flag is shown before an incident and no passing is allowed until cars pass the green flag held at a marshals post beyond the accident.

We also use red flags (which I think are used to signal the end of a race under caution in the US) to abandon a race, these are used quite often over here, particuarly at club level motorsport after it is clear first corner pile ups won't be cleared quickly enough (we have a lot of them as we have standing starts).

We call full course cautions safety car sessions and it's basically the same idea as in the US, they tend to only be used in long events or where they are put out deleberatley to close the pack up for a spectacular TV finish (V8 Supercars are awful at this).

There's also a black and yellow chequered flag (UK only) which is shown at the start/finish line to the leader of the race, who then becomes a safety/pace car circulating at low speeds holding the pack back until he's given a green flag.

hey dudes!
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=5438

exactly what i am searching for.

Speedlimit under Yellow Flag!!!!!

can somoen program that?