Quote from sidi :

A proper bike sim would be nice to see one day but i really doubt it would have a large enough user base to justify someone spending a lot of money developing the hardware or the actual sim itself.

cf. Tourist Trophy considerable sales, GP500's hardcore following even years after release, SBK's success, and netbike's (or whatever it's called..) anticipated release..

Give LFS bikes the same great physics and transparent feedback as the cars have, and you'll only need to push a small snowball down the slope for it to get a lot of people's attention.

Quote from desmosedici800 :

well.. maybe i shouldn't but... there was few sim (part sim?) bike games in the past.. it was great fun and there is a project.. netbike http://www.kunos-bside.net/ i've done few laps and... handling is very good, quite realistic, so it is possible to make proper enjoyable sim even without full riders body movement, remember lfs is sim but will never be real it can get very close to reality but will never rich that point, i think with bike sim we should go same way, get it as close to reality as possible but obviously we'll never get to experience of riding real bike. so... no rider movement? skip this part master the rest and thousends of ppl could enjoy proper bike sim (as close as it could be at a time) in reality body movement is important but at the end, sim racing is mostly about racing line,throttle and break control and this 3 things are complex enough to provide great fun. im waiting years for proper bike sim and no good sim was released yet, many people are waiting for something proper and would pay some money to put hands on lfs style bike sim - great fun, advanced vehicle setup feature, realistic handling, and still not perfect like lfs. i don't think scawen would like to go in this direction (wouldn't he?), he's busy with lfs as car sim, maybe he's not intrested in making bike sim but i hope and im not alone that somebody will start work on proper online bike sim ps 1 sorry for my english ps 2 my blood pressure is rising when i read posts on ppl against implementation of bikes in lfs..... pathetic imo..

Well either it's not detecting my wheel properly.. or the handling is rubbish.. It's behaving exactly like it would with a keyboard input.

Holding the steering partially over one way just makes it lean progressively more and more that way until the bike is on it's side. That's not how it should behave. The lean should be proportional to the steering input or else you have no control.

This looks like pretty good "moto style" handling in LFS to me!
I think it's LFStweak modified "2 wheel car" with great LEAN ANGLE!
- http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=c7CNR1PDh0w

Obviously the car on top of the drivers head looks silly, but it seems like a bike in LFS could be done pretty well and it would be a lot of FUN! Not a perfect a SIM like LFS is for cars, but I would love to see a bike happen... AFTER LFS is complete - say in 2013?


BTW - I have MotoGP 2007 for PC and I use a joystick for that.
It allows you to adjust rider weight front to rear a little bit.
Leaning / hanging off the bike happens automatically.
It's OK & may be the best PC street moto game available right now.
EDIT - here's a SIM MOD from the community over at REG:
- http://reg.3dactionplanet.game ... ums/showthread.php?t=4638 (youtube video links in there too)

A FUN dirt bike game that had quite a bit of rider body weighting in it is "MX vs. ATV Unleashed". There are also many great user made tracks, bike & rider skins - http://www.mcmfactory.com - here's an example of a user created track w/ a pic - http://www.mcmfactory.com/disp ... at=mva_tracks&id=2014

The front to back rider weight movement in MvA is to pre-load the shocks for jumps and back weight the bike through whoops & wheelies but a proper controller was never released commercially.

Several people tried homemade prototype handlebar controllers back in the days of Motocross Madness 1 & 2 that looked very promising & I think one was sold commercially, but it was expensive and not really sturdy.

I think a multiaxis "excercise bicycle size" controller with footpegs, brake levers, clutch, shifter & throttle would be incredible but since they don't even make them for the commercial arcade gaming centers (like the old Suzuka 8 Hours) I doubt we will ever see one commercially for a PC moto game - but I pray for it every year around x-mas!

I bet these guys could make a good one, but not affordable for me!
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRdF0wOBi4w

Back OT - I think a bike in LFS would be fun SOMEDAY - even w/ a joystick!

Quote from AMA_King :

This looks like pretty good "moto style" handling in LFS to me!
I think it's LFStweak modified "2 wheel car" with great LEAN ANGLE!
- http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=c7CNR1PDh0w

That's just .. weird.. I never knew you could do that in LFS, I'll have to check out the LFStweak thing !! What about the weight though? a bike would be a lot lighter than even the lightest car in LFS.

hmm .. off to check out LFStweak

as a creator of this "LFS bike" video mentioned above I would like to add some worlds about the bike simulation and controlling..
Actually, to ride a simulated bike, you dont need a special controller. A wheel is completely OK. Tu make the bike lean or stay straight you'll have to countersteer. Shifting the body weight to one side or another can increase your cornering speed, but not at all vital for the riding.

After releasing that first video with some bike-action in LFS I wanted to make another one, featuring some stunts, jumps, offroad section and so on.. Burnouts were pretty easy to do, even drifting was possible (on a 800cc monocylinder bike.. Supermotos rule!

BTW, i had to move the car body so high to have enough clearance while leaning the bike.. It make it less stable and difficult to change direction because of inertia, but that was the only way to obtain a decent lean angle..

I wish we will see the bikes in LFS one day. Ready to pay 10x times its price for this feature and participate in the development, if possible..

Quote from dougie-lampkin :

That game had some of the best bike-related physics/graphics I've seen in a while...

I agree...but...

It made all the bikes seem so freaking heavy and slowly accelerating..
You couldn't wheelie a single supermotard in that game!

and i beat it the day i bought it.. 100% so it was very short compared to GT's...

/offtopic

Quote from TG44 :

I agree...but...

It made all the bikes seem so freaking heavy and slowly accelerating..
You couldn't wheelie a single supermotard in that game!

and i beat it the day i bought it.. 100% so it was very short compared to GT's...

/offtopic

See TT Superbikes on PS2. It's the Isle of Man game (plus Northern 200). The physics in Tourist Trophy were appallingly bad, but that shouldn't surprise anyone given the base it's built upon.

Atleast Tourist Trophy wasn't as bad as Riding Spirits 1 & 2. Although Riding Spirits had more of a Gran Turismo style to it (tuning, tweaking and bike selection wise), it failed quite miserably.

I quite enjoyed Tourist Trophy even though it was quite a quick game to 100%. For a PS2 game, the graphics were good and the handling of the bikes are mediocre, but still quite enjoyable. I still like to thrash a certain mate at it when I visit him.

TT Superbikes wasn't half bad though. Took a bit of getting used to but overall it was good. Isle of Man and Northwest were quite well modeled really.

ok just try out one thing: put some training wheels on a bike (you know the ones you have when you were learning how to ride a bycicle) and then TURN the steering... what will happen? if you are slow nothing.... if your fast, you will probably make a nice highsider...


DUDE IT IS BOTH! you need body and arms to gat a motorbike on a racetrack around if you want to go in a decent speed.

i do not get why there is a discussion about this anyway.

Quote from Fischfix :

ok just try out one thing: put some training wheels on a bike (you know the ones you have when you were learning how to ride a bycicle) and then TURN the steering... what will happen? if you are slow nothing.... if your fast, you will probably make a nice highsider...


DUDE IT IS BOTH! you need body and arms to gat a motorbike on a racetrack around if you want to go in a decent speed.

i do not get why there is a discussion about this anyway.

What? What does that prove?

I agree with you about needing to use your body to ride fast, I don't have any idea why adding training wheels would demonstrate this, though. You might as well say "ride a quad".

He seems to be saying that needing to lean over (which learning wheels forbid) is an illustration of the requirement of body control to have realistic control of a bike, in a game.. But all you need to do to initiate a lean-over is to use that same unopposed conservation of momentum above the sticky contact between tires and road by counter steering... You don't need body control for that, or radio controlled bikes with no moving parts (save the gyros) wouldn't work like they do.

The issue is whether the lack of body control over a bike will give acceptable racing performance in the game, or how much reduction in body control input is tolerable.

Ideally for a sim, a full body controller is required. But the uber-vast majority of people won't go out and buy one, simply because there aren't any games to use it with. Much like the uber-vast majority of people here don't have a 401...

Which would mean it would have to have an arcadey-style auto-lean system. Which IMO wouldn't fit into LFS. It would be fun, yes, but this is serious sim. Fun is not serious

Sounds like arbitrary seriousness.

Quote from dougie-lampkin :

...this is serious sim.

Serious cat sez:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1402/822327651_1efebd248a.jpg