@ Bullhorn and anyone else not sure of the advantage - get someone to demostrate this in a real car while you're a passenger (on the road is fine). 1) no heel & toe, 2) matched-rev changing (this hasn't been mentioned but is still a good technique), 3) full heel & toe. You will then appreciate how smooth it is.

I use H&T and left-foot braking all the time on the road as do many others on this thread. Aside from being kinder to the car (ie. ALL the components involved in transmission), its WAY cool braking down from top gear at speed all the way into 1st very smoothly using H&T. Impresses the hell out of your passengers too.

The only time I can't manage this is in a Caterham (or similar) where the pedal box is tight for space and my size 11 feet simply won't fit.

... oh, and here's a big *FAIL* to those with auto-boxes

oh my...

So i race cars in real life... HnT is as natural to me as breathing... so i rigged up my old pedals this weekend and tried a bit of "non auto clutch"... what a joke... my left foot now thinks its a "braking" foot and not a "clutch" foot!

Although i played the game left foot braking on thurs eve, climbed in my race car friday morn and never missed a single gear all session!

is it just me???

The other thing, I couldnt get my config to work with HnT. im using a DFP. but when i try HnT, i cant cause the pedals are set on the same axis... any ideas?

No its not just you, I can't H&T to save me on LFS, even though I can preach about it all day and demonstrate it in my car on the road and track.

On LFS it turns into random stabbing of pedals, usually sailing past the first corner into the barrier. This is even though its exactly the same theory and layout as a car. Go figure.

I've consigned the G25 gear lever to the loft, I prefer to use the paddles behind the wheel and my left foot is constantly covering the brake pedal.

As for your pedals on the same axis - go to the controller properties (under Control Panel > Game Controllers) and you'll see something along the lines of "Use combined axis", it is likely ticked.

I found heal toe to be a bit unnatural with the G25 pedals and a desk and office chair setup.

The combination of CST pedals, a real seat and accurate placement of everything made H&T much easier for me: http://downshift.blip.tv

If the CST pedals aren't in your budget, you can mod your G25 pedals like this guy did to match his Lotus Exige (or simply turn them upside down!):

http://www.thewayiplay.com/mai ... topic=110.msg1304#msg1304

I have no idea how the G25 pedals feel in that configuration, but I assume it would make H&T somewhat easier. My biggest problem was the way the pedals pivoted. The lower end of the G25 throttle pedal is very high (especially when the brake pedal is depressed) and hard to push in from the bottom. But Tristan just called me a noob and told me my technique was poor

It's pretty negligible imo. It's more a style and rhythm thing because the end result is always the same (you end up in the desired gear with your rev's matched).

Skipping gears is probably much faster with the right driver. You can focus on applying the perfect amount of braking. Rev-matching is also probably more difficult as well.

I prefer gearing down one at a time, maybe just because I'm used to it and I find skipping gears a bit awkward. It's also more fun But unless you have an amazing technique, you will probably be losing time braking. I don't know about you guys, but if you were to analyze my braking, you wouldn't see a constant optimal brake pressure applied - there would be points where it's uneven when I'm blipping the throttle. Even if it's minute, I'm losing time here.

In LFS, I think any driver using either technique will probably be slower than some joe schmoe using paddles and auto-clutch that can easily focus on and consistently apply the optimal brake pressure.

Quote from Technique :

Skipping gears is probably much faster with the right driver. You can focus on applying the perfect amount of braking. Rev-matching is also probably more difficult as well.

I prefer gearing down one at a time, maybe just because I'm used to it and I find skipping gears a bit awkward. It's also more fun But unless you have an amazing technique, you will probably be losing time braking. I don't know about you guys, but if you were to analyze my braking, you wouldn't see a constant optimal brake pressure applied - there would be points where it's uneven when I'm blipping the throttle. Even if it's minute, I'm losing time here.

In LFS, I think any driver using either technique will probably be slower than some joe schmoe using paddles and auto-clutch that can easily focus on and consistently apply the optimal brake pressure.

I usually change gear one by one in road cars as the amount of time you spend under braking is comfortable enough to do everything right, but in a car like FZR I find it much easier to go 6-4-2 for example at intensive braking zones, as the time you spend under braking forces you to downshift fast which often can cause an error.

ok so that is heel and toe, I am doing it all the time when driving my dad 4runner I just didn't know what it was lol

Quote from Mans :

I really don't get why. Not trying to be an ass by any means just trying to figure it out When you're braking why not depress the clutch the whole time, shift into the desired gear, rev match and let the clutch come up?

Mainly because you won't be able to use engine braking (shortens brake distance if the set your using is set so) and car becomes a bit unstable when you can't use engine to vary brake balance and balance of the car overall

Quote from Mans :

As a complete noob to simracing and driving in general I'm very interested in the theory behind it all. I'm wondering what is the advantage to using multiple shifts to reach the desired gear instead of using one shift?

Heel toe does what the game does for you in sequential mode.

The purpose of Heel toe in REAL life is so you can downshift while braking while keeping the car stable and taking advantage of engine braking to assist you in slowing the car.

If you downshift WITHOUT heel toe, The clutch, and the flywheel are rotating at different speeds..and when they MESH , it shocks the drive line as the clutch has to "drag" the engine up to the appropriate RPM to match wheel speed. This wears out your clutch, and will most likely upset traction.

By Using Heel and toe, You are matching the engine rpms to the wheel speed, while shifting, while braking. all at the same time.

In the game, using sequential and automatic and AUTO CLUTCH..The game does this for you..So you dont recognize the need for it. It is a very handy tool for use in real life.

You also dont need to go through each gear...You Can simply brake...Wait untill you reach the appropriate corner entry speed... Rev match to the gear you WANT using heel and toe, Then go directly to that gear and go

Quote from Iketani Sempai! :

You also dont need to go through each gear...You Can simply brake...Wait untill you reach the appropriate corner entry speed... Rev match to the gear you WANT using heel and toe, Then go directly to that gear and go

You have some good points there (was going to mention [RF]-art555 had it right too). However, I believe that (again easier to imagine if you go out and to this in real life) in racing you need to come down through every gear.

It is, of course, down to personal preference too but by coming down through each gear I find I am automatically in the correct gear for the speed I'm doing at the time and also it is a LOT easier to detect when the rears are locking up.

I've driven Caterhams quite often and it makes braking on the limit so much easier / slicker / smoother and less likely to lock the back end if you do use each gear in turn. It kinda keeps the wheels moving when they're just that close to locking.

Normally when I downshift, I double clutch and skip gears. As soon as I get on the brakes I shift into neutral, then as I enter the corner I shift into the lower gear, heel and toe, and slowly lift off the clutch. Do I lose time with this approach as opposed to what you guys have described?

Quote from Almadiel :

Normally when I downshift, I double clutch and skip gears. As soon as I get on the brakes I shift into neutral, then as I enter the corner I shift into the lower gear, heel and toe, and slowly lift off the clutch. Do I lose time with this approach as opposed to what you guys have described?

In LFS most of sets use a low braking force in setups to prevent locking of wheels in almoust any situation (read very low) which ofcourse increases your braking distance. To compensate that, people use engine braking (used to be really excessive in previous patches) to decrease braking distance with such sets. If the set you are using have a proper amount of braking force and balance than you probably don't loose anything except that car may be less stable under heavy braking

thats a big reason I got my G25.. Soo I wont tear up my rear car working on driving techniques (plus it's not as easy to hit up the track and afford a race car)

I'm probably still a bit more slower then I was on my mouse for 4 years

Thanks for the tip, I guess threshold braking will be next on my list of things to practice.

remember try to put the brake pedal a further back of the gas pedal. I saw to some guy for reach this put and sparco face over the brake with two spacers and this give to him the TnH action, this was made for their g25 pedals.

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=q_AiBdVJifA

Quote from gp4racer :

remember try to put the brake pedal a further back of the gas pedal. I saw to some guy for reach this put and sparco face over the brake with two spacers and this give to him the TnH action, this was made for their g25 pedals.

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=q_AiBdVJifA

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=34855