Quote from sam93 :

Superb drive from LH, people ask what makes him special well I think that nearly answers it, all the anti-fans of him who think there is nothing special I think you will need to take that drive into account.

why? What does being a rain specialist prove? So are Button and Barichello, (and a few other drivers in the field), anyone ever compare them with Senna?

Sure I'll take that drive in to account. But I reserve the right to take all his other drives in to account when forming an opinion of his "talent". Only picking and choosing the "best bits" as evidence of "special" talent is the defacto definition of bias.


As for massa it is patently clear that there was a problem with his car. People making accusations of him not having throttle control obviously choose to blinker their ears to the commentary during the race, (coming from far more talented and experienced drivers than anyone on this forum !), pointing out that he hardly touched the throttle and the car was stepping out on him.

Quote from gezmoor :

As for massa it is patently clear that there was a problem with his car. People making accusations of him not having throttle control obviously choose to blinker their ears to the commentary during the race, (coming from far more talented and experienced drivers than anyone on this forum !), pointing out that he hardly touched the throttle and the car was stepping out on him.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/68942

Quote :

Joint world championship leader Felipe Massa was at a loss to explain his catalogue of errors in the rain-hit British Grand Prix, after finishing last on track two laps down, having spun no less than five times.

The Brazilian never recovered from his initial spin, at the exit of Abbey on lap two, which sent him to the tail of the field while the circuit was covered in a layer of standing water.

A number of further errors rendered any fightback through the field null and void, and afterwards Massa admitted to UK broadcaster ITV,that his Ferrari aquaplaning badly and that he had struggled to control it.

"There was so much aquaplaning that I couldn't stay straight," he said.

"There were just so many mistakes and it is difficult to explain."

Quote from sam93 :

.......but he has worked bloody hard to get where he is today, he comes from a poor background ..........

hmm.. well "poor" and "worked hard" are relative terms. For me it's patently clear from his accent that neither he nor his father are from a "poor background" as I would use the term to describe someone.

Clearly the School he went too is very reprasentative of a working class inner city school full of disadvantaged kids

http://www.johnhenrynewman.herts.sch.uk/about/about.htm

As for worked hard, well I'm sure he did as an individual in terms of racing, but as an early interview with his father shows, they didn't struggle for cash to fund his racing....

http://www.silverstonemagazine.co.uk/pdf/svn2_onetowatch.pdf

Looks like a very poor neighbourhood he's from too...

http://www.itnsource.com/templ ... px?flashMovieStartIndex=1

http://www.itnsource.com/templ ... px?flashMovieStartIndex=2

Wait a few days before deciding Massa's fate. I'm sure a better technical analysis will show a better reason than one car randomly aquaplaning at 60mph when the others weren't at 160mph.

I agree with Gezmoor about Lewis (although I won't deny Lewis' was a good drive today) - taking into account his highest highs and lowest lows, and all in between, you have to say he's not quite a Senna or a Schumacher yet. Maybe he will be one day. But equally he might turn out to be a Villeneuve. He's already grasped the French-Canadian's ability to whinge (which is a Brit speciality in F1 generally - Hill and Mansell were well known whingers - and I say this as a supported of both of them in their time).

Quote from tristancliffe :

I agree with Gezmoor about Lewis (although I won't deny Lewis' was a good drive today) - taking into account his highest highs and lowest lows, and all in between, you have to say he's not quite a Senna or a Schumacher yet.

True, but Schumacher wasn't a Schumacher half-way through his second year in F1 either. No idea how Senna performed in his first 20 or so races but I wouldn't be surprised if he made a few high-profile mistakes.

I think it's not unreasonable for pundits to talk him up based on his performance so far. After all, he was partnered with Alonso last year. I know you don't like Alonso but he's certainly not slow, and he knows how to win championships. Matching him on points was quite an achievement for a debutant I think.

I don't mind him being talked up. It's when most people say he IS brilliant, and the next Senna when they should be saying he COULD BE brilliant and COULD BE the next Senna... He isn't brilliant, and he isn't as good as Senna was. For the time being; end of.

I like Alonso this year - he's kept his head down, kept out of most of the politics, and has driven the wheels off his car. Plus, his driving style isn't as painful to watch. I do think he's gone for personal glory in qualifying a little too often, but he's clearly not thinking about championships - team or drivers... I think that'll be his downfall, as a 'top team' will now think twice about hiring him as they've seen his evil side last year, and his selfish side this year. But that's merely conjecture on my part.

Very good race for Hamilton, pitty Raikkonen didn't have the chance to fight him after the gamble at the first stop.

Sam93 - One race means nothing at the end of the day. Rubens, Coulthard and many other drivers have had the odd stunning performance in their careers yet never pulled a season together to win the championship. Hamilton can be quick when it's going his way, but when it all starts getting tough the pressure gets to him and very big mistakes happen as we've seen.

Happy to see Rubens on the podium again! Massa, oh dear what a boy. I seem to recall the last wet race he did the exact same thing and maybe even the one before... Way way too aggressive and by the sounds of his interview at the end of the race he wasn't placing blame on the car or setup...

Quote from tristancliffe :

I don't mind him being talked up. It's when most people say he IS brilliant, and the next Senna when they should be saying he COULD BE brilliant and COULD BE the next Senna... He isn't brilliant, and he isn't as good as Senna was. For the time being; end of.

I like Alonso this year - he's kept his head down, kept out of most of the politics, and has driven the wheels off his car. Plus, his driving style isn't as painful to watch. I do think he's gone for personal glory in qualifying a little too often, but he's clearly not thinking about championships - team or drivers... I think that'll be his downfall, as a 'top team' will now think twice about hiring him as they've seen his evil side last year, and his selfish side this year. But that's merely conjecture on my part.

Alonso has basically changed his entire view on things this year, recently he was caught defending lewis on how his raced this season(something he would never say last year) and said he will stay with renault no matter how hard it gets. He seems to have matured and made it his responsiblity to re-build hes once great team.

Quote from keiran :

Hamilton can be quick when it's going his way, but when it all starts getting tough the pressure gets to him and very big mistakes happen as we've seen.

I don't think it's "pressure" as-such that causes Hamilton's problems, it's that he doesn't know how to race for second place. That's how he lost last year's championship - through trying to win races he didn't need to win.

I agree with the wise words of Sir Jackie, he really should be the president of the FIA, but he wouldn't take the job if he was offered it.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/68770

Quote from duke_toaster :

Countback. You're doing it wrong

Wins : 3 each
2nd places : 1 each
3rd places : 1 each
5th places : 0
5th places : 1 each
6th-9th places : 0
10th places : Hamilton 1, Massa 0.

Hamilton leads by most 10th places. Tight, but still a lead

ROFL you made me laugh hard man! Good stuff!!

I got ripped!

Well I think Monaco was also a very good show from Hamilton, came back from the crash and won, so thats two good races so far also Canada was a good race until he crashed.

Quote from sam93 :

Well I think Monaco was also a very good show from Hamilton, came back from the crash and won, so thats two good races so far also Canada was a good race until he crashed.

I saw Monaco more just stratigy rather then the skill.

This race was all the work on Hammy..

Quote from aoun :

I saw Monaco more just stratigy rather then the skill.

This race was all the work on Hammy..

Yes this last race was the skill on Hammy and still for being a rookie, well not so much a rookie now, he just shown his skill on one of the hardest weather conditions in F1 so I say that was bloody good talent, lets just hope he does this well all season, I think that race would of gave him a bit more of a confidence boost to win for the rest of the season.

Yes Monaco was more of strategy but you need good skill to get round Monaco in a F1 car what he nearly came close to not finishing but he wanted it so much he got to the pits without a right rear tyre.

I think some people who aren't actually Hamilton fans sometimes make excuses up so its makes out that he wouldn't of won if someone didnt make a mistake, I know this isn't everyone but sometimes it seems that they make Sh*t up so they can get away with not saying he done well, there is only a small number of people it seems to me do this so I am not saying this is everyone.

If Martin Brundle's beginning to compare Hamilton to both Senna and Schumacher by saying he has that same 6th sense for knowing how much grip there is in a corner in the wet before he gets to it. Then i'm not one to argue.

So who you gonna believe ? a very experienced F1 driver who raced side by side with Senna in the junior ranks and F1, and an ex team mate of Schumachers. Or a bunch of young forum geeks who spend most of their time playing a driving sim and who've probably never even sat in an F1 car let alone driven one on the limit ?

Armchair experts for the win ?

Im sure in good time he will be, after all this is hes second season, but there is still a few more years of development to go.

what the hell.

First place gets a proper trophy, but second and third place gets a santender logo??????

I feel really cheated with ferrari's strategy, there's absolutely no reason to gamble when the car is on pace with the same tires, and it wasn't even the last stint. ferrari might not be able to know lewis tire choice but it shouldnt' be a tough guess........once again they gambled on a dry track (and what do they gain with worn intermediates on a dry track? they honestly expect them to last a dozen more laps so they get to their pit window?) and against all common sense they f**k themselves up again.

I think Kimi has answers to Lewis pace, although Lewis was outstanding and his ability to work the tires gave him an advantage. It should have been much closer.

a few more races like these the tactician should be fired.

Ferrari gambled because they knew they DIDN'T have the same pace as Lewis when it was wet. A drying track was a different story but Kimi did not have the answers when the rain came down. Kimi came off twice, and was lucky to not damage his car. Kimi had the pace for second, but nothing more.

it's different, at least at the first part of the second stint the track still suits the ferrari better, and if kimi had made a move Lewis will have to change this tactic and put him under pressure, and pressure is what might make lewis miss a beat.

And for a championship point of view a second is definitely not bad, this is hardly a ferrari weekend. Kimi said it's a joint decision, maybe he want a win and no less, I've give him props but it still doesn't make sense, he could still be quicker if the track dries out as they wished, if he got new tires. so really the bet has no advantage.

In terms of actual pace, at times, Lewis was leagues ahead. Kimi may hav been able to pressure after the pit stop, but as soon as the rain came down Lewis was gone. If with a problem visor he caught and lapped Kimi and drove well within himself.

Ferrari cost themselves a podium. If Brawn and Schumi were still there then we can imagine that he could have pressured Lewis

Kimi had very similar to pace when in the same game - same fuel load and similar tyres. On worn inters he was slower, and on high fuel loads he was slower. But there wasn't much in it when on the same fuel loads/tyre wear states. Would Kimi have won? Who knows, but it would have been a LOT closer than 66 seconds!

Taking the time to actually vote - finaly !

I voted for Barrichello. He will probably always be my favorite F1 driver (the vote did say favorite not best), and as far as I can tell he is probably most other F1 drivers favorite driver too. He always comes across as a nice guy and all the comments I've ever heard about him from anyone in F1 have said the same thing. He is respected by just about everyone in F1 as a fair driver too. Sure he was never WDC but I still believe he was one of the better drivers in F1. Anyone that can out drive an on form Schumacher on occasion has to be better than average IMO.

Quote from intrepid :

ferrari Cost Themselves A Podium. If Brawn And Schumi Were Still There Then We Can Imagine That He Could Have Beat Lewis

:d

Quote from tristancliffe :

Kimi had very similar to pace when in the same game - same fuel load and similar tyres. On worn inters he was slower, and on high fuel loads he was slower. But there wasn't much in it when on the same fuel loads/tyre wear states. Would Kimi have won? Who knows, but it would have been a LOT closer than 66 seconds!

Kimi wasa not 66 seconds though... Kimi was around 100-110 seconds behind.