In Spain we got more things to spend our time at than sitting down 12 hours a day trying to master a video game. We got sun, we got good weather, we got beaches and we do sports outside, there's where sport is supposed to be done, not in front of a PC.
I LMAO when I hear about e-sports... e-sports? c'mon thats for lifeless ppl who need an excuse to tell themselves they are not wasting his time in a stupid activity (not stupid itself as an activity, but it becomes stupid when u waste your whole time in it), a hamster do more sport in its wheel...
I think that using scripts, made and applied from outside the game (logitech profiler), is not in the spirit of the rules and should be considered a cheat, if giving an effortless advantage. I also believe that the solution to this is to show the controller configuration of any WR/driver, and categorize the records. After all, if we don't expect to win against someone with superior equipment (keboard vs wheel for example), there's no reason to be upset. I'm not sure it exists already, but I imagine that keyboard/mouse drivers might be thrilled to have their own category of entirely competitive WR's to beat and so on. Perhaps a little graphical icon next to people's names that show the basic setup they use? Or when browsing through the cars live or in replay mode, you see the basic setup in text somewhere on the HUD, clearly marked? I'm sure very interested in seeing those things when racing and comparing myself to others.
Entirely subjective, and most likely you are expressing social norms (I say this because most people here in Sweden think the same thing, at least if they don't play much games). For example, do you think that going to a club/pub to take drugs with others with loud music in the background is considered better/higher status? I'm sure many would think so. But how is this activity, which is most likely much more expensive as well as outright very unhealthy and unproductive better than playing games? Yet people will keep their strict judgement against proper reasoning.
What's 'good' and 'bad' weather is entirely subjective as well. I hate sun, heat and humidity and I typically skip my exercising outside if there's any combination thereof.
Archery, firearms sports (target shooting), golf, chess, curling, many forms of motorsport (such as drag racing, ice racing). I am sure there are many more. All of these are fairly similar in how one moves one body to, for example, sim racing with a force feedback wheel. Lifeless fake sports to laugh at? Or are they OK because it's established and outdoors?
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I said you deserve no advantage for using button clutch. Of course there obviously is and always has been one. You just don't deserve it.
The point of using button clutch? Well if you wouldn't use it if there were no speed advantage, then it's just another reason why it shouldn't be there at all.
Pedal clutch (OBVIOUSLY?) is and should be a completely different thing from button clutch. The game should be made FOR pedal clutch. Anyone without the third pedal uses autoclutch and accepts any limitations, end of story in my opinion. To compare button clutch with pedal clutch is like comparing keyboard with steering wheel.
Note that some cars have button clutches in reality, like the GP2 cars. Being a real way of operating the clutch, and being closer to reality than an automatic clutch, I think it has plenty of justification for it's existance and being seen as a very valid choice, more so respected than autoclutch.
But that would be a completely different thing from the current button clutch. If a car has a clutch like that then the game should ask you how you wish to operate it. If a car has a pedal operated clutch, you should not be able to gain an advantage by operating it with a digital on/off button tap.
You seem to miss the distinct difference between a car with a clutch that is operated at the wheel (although the idea that it would be an on/off digital switch is pretty funny), and "pretending" to operate a clutch pedal with a wheel button in a car with 3 pedals. Selecting "Button Clutch" in the control menu does not suddenly turn your 3 pedal XFG into a 2 pedal F1/GP2 car with a wheel mounted clutch control.
I see the distinction and your concern. I agree with them. But there is nothing to prevent the speed of the operation being hardcoded as well. Clutch button just 'making the leg of the driver push the clutch at a simulated speed' (heh heh) at a speed, instead of removing it all together. I.e. it operates more like keyboard throttle/brake than an on-off button. Speaking of which, wouldn't that also completely eliminate this whole issue of scripted gearshifts which this thread is about?
I have the same wheel as arrechee and it´s easy to use the manual clutch by pressing a button, but i´m too lazy... so i prefer AC hehehe, but for example one year ago more and less when i was used to drive with Keyboard I was driving with Manual clutch, so maybe when i arrive to spain this september i will try to drive with manual clutch.
Is it easy to tell if the person is using the macro or just shifting really fast with button clutch? When I looked at the example on an SPR file it looked a bit unhumanly fast but I noticed online due to latencey and bits of lag its not always accurate to look at the accelerator/brake/clutch bars?
Im only asking this as some button clutchers may be banned falsley?
(just to note I iv not seen a macro clutcher online so can compare myself...or i just did not notice it..)
That's just it though at the moment the button clutch actually operates more closely to reality (but is still slower than manual clutch) and the autoclutch is the one that is not operating correctly.
Auto clutch currently acts as follows:
digital on (instant on less than 0.01 sec)
100% engaged 0.10 sec
Tappered decline 0.10 sec
Button clutch currently acts as follows:
Tappered on 0.05 sec
100% engaged 0.05 sec (can vary slightly)
Tappered decline 0.10 sec
Manual clutch currently acts as follows:
Tappered on 0.05 sec
100% engaged 0.05 sec
Tappered decline 0.05 sec
It's just in this case the bug in the autoclutch is giving people a time penatly. So we wouldn't call using the autoclutch an exploit (I'm sure we would if it gave an advantage, although would we as everyone could use it :really.
So why oh why are people still insisting on calling the button clutch or even macro shifting an exploit when it is clearly the autoclutch which is behaving incorrectly and that the button clutch is actually more realistic and correct? (oh I know it's because the majority are using autoclutch )
I think all people that use the autoclutch are nubs and don't appreciate realism, much the same way that automatic uses are nubs
How anyone can call this a cheat or exploit is beyond me with the current facts at hand
I agree that at the moment the autoclutch users are at a disadvantage, but it's not because of the existence of macro shifting, it's not because the button clutch operates digitally it is because of the auto clutch it's self is wrong.
The autoclutch gives you a disadvanatage the button clutch does not give you an advantage!
So to go around branding button clutch and macro users as cheats and dishing out life time bans is something I would be very cautious of doing, and I say that as an autoclutch user.
The majority is not always correct, take off your blinkers guys...
Which are the results of tests I did myself as well as analysing worms example wr macroshift run and kaynd's posted replays of tests he did. The manual clutch times I achieved fairly comfortably on the drag strip with a G25 wheel I think it would be possible to do even quicker clutch times with practise.
I added that line just for you
Prove to me that a macro gear change is faster than using the button clutch by a margin as great as the difference between autoclutch and button clutch and you have won. I'll only concede that a macro is a cheat when you do
I have said macro is a cheat, it is. I have said button clutch is not a cheat, because the game supports it. Blinkers?
I stand by everything I have said about button clutch. I don't think it should be any quicker than autoclutch, it's still an automatic clutch imo if you use a button to operate a pedal, you just tell it when to operate.
The button operated autoclutch should operate as slowly as the autoclutch. There is no reason at all why it shouldn't. There also is no realism discussion to be had. 3 pedals is realistic, everything else is unrealistic. No grey area.
I mean how hard is it to tell button clutch from macro clutch. Like you and glenn said it "is? maybe?" possible to clutch faster than the macro with a perfect clutch. It seems they have started banning macro users on conedodger's and i was just curious of how easily mixed up the 2 could get.
But it does operate more slowly than a manual clutch and it is pretty much the same speed as the autoclutch. It is just that the autoclutch doesn't behave like a clutch should and therefore gives a poorer result to the button clutch which is behaving how a clutch should.
Don't you think it at all odd that the autoclutch goes instant on (i.e. digital - 1 physics cycle) where the button clutch takes 0.05 sec (5 physics cycles) to reach 100% disengagement.
btw go do a clean install of S2 patch P and see if you can see a difference between how the autoclutch and button clutch operate
To add to this thread, you can exploit the traction control on the FZ5 to shift without lifting the throttle. Because the TC will detect slip when you shift and it cuts the ignition.
True, but faster drivers are faster without using TC unless they switched when changing gear, but what would be the point in that? You probobly just lose engine momentus by doing this.
as everyone could use it :really
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