Quote from chanoman315 :

Hockquan, yes every airplane with 2 engines can maintain flight, but an explosion on a MD is fatal, because it's not in the wing, it's on the body of the plane...

And yes, planes are a lot safer than cars

and the fact that it had neither altitude or speed when it crashed, the pilot had no choice but to ditch it. It sounds like the engine didn't just stop working, but it actually caught fire and/or exploded, which would mean it would damage the body of the plane too

153 people confirmed dead now

Quote from JJ72 :

sustain flight when you have altitude and speed, yes. But take off, no.

engine failure is a bit different from engine blowing up as well, if an engine simply fails (stop working) it's still fine, but if it blows up it upsets the whole aerodynamics of the plane and it's a lot more complicated

Twin engined planes are designed to be able to take off on the loss of one engine. Not just to sustain flight, that's the impression I'm given anyways.

Mookie: If the pilot tried to ditch it then he wasn't following standard procedures. Once you get past the point of no return a full take off MUST be attempted. It comes down to damage from the explosion causing the plane to be unable to fly or the pilot panicing when the engine went up and making a mistake.

As has been said, what happened will be revealed by crash investigators, hopefuly. I was just making a guess.

19 survivors out of 172 at the moment. RIP.

Quote from Eldanor :

Come on, nobody said it was special, but human lives have been lost, show some respect please.

i did not intend to appear disrespectful. i just wondered what makes this plane crash different compared to all the others that obviously do not deserve a thread and thus respect for the victims.

Quote from Hockquan :

It comes down to damage from the explosion causing the plane to be unable to fly

and I reckon that'll be the final result of the investigation, an engine going tits-up that's attached to the body of the plane really can't be very good

well....some accidents got publicized more than others, media isn't exactly a fair and systematic practice, some accidents is closer to people's fear than others, and due to a million factors not every single piece of news will make it on this forum........

it just happens, okay?

Quote from CSU1 :

What genius ever decided to store fuel in wings in the first place, as far as structural vulnerability goes it's equal to having a cars fuel stored in the front/rear bumpers? Geniuses

It is a pretty good place to store fuel, good for practicality of storage and about the safest place you could store it, in a belly landing the wings normally don't take much weight and are likely to be ripped off in a hard (but survivable) hit with the ground, I'd rather have a lot of highly flammable liquid ripped off the wreckage rather than sitting on top of it, which would be the only feasible alternative. It doesn't sound like this plane had a serious fuel fire anyway, from what I heard the helicopters were only putting out the engine which was still on fire and would explain why there were some survivors.

this talk of the fuel in the wings reminds me of that crash test that was done in the 70's, with a new type of 'jelly' fuel that didn't explode when a plane crashed - they filled the tanks in the wings with the new fuel then for some reason filled the rest of the wing with normal aviation fuel, and landed the plane by remote control on a runway covered in spikes and stuff to pierce the tanks and see if it worked - 'pilot' misjudged the descent and ripped open the wings igniting the normal fuel and it was deemed to have failed.

If that fuel had come into use it could have saved hundreds of lives by now

Quote from mookie427 :

and I reckon that'll be the final result of the investigation, an engine going tits-up that's attached to the body of the plane really can't be very good

I agree, time will tell though.

Was just reading a bit more about this in the net. The MD80 family of planes (or maybe just the MD80, I'm not sure) have had 9 fatal incidents out of 20 million flights. Second safest in the world or something similar. 9/20,000,000 is pretty damn good.

When it goes wrong on a plane it often involves a lot of people which gives some people the impression that it is unsafe when really it is not.

The MD82 is more than capable at performing a single engine climb out or atleast hold altitude, there must be other factors involved.

Anyone see the bloke on TV who missed the plane, he was late 3 mins to the gate and they wouldn't let him board! Lucky man

My thoughts are with the victims families.

Quote :

engine failure is a bit different from engine blowing up as well, if an engine simply fails (stop working) it's still fine, but if it blows up it upsets the whole aerodynamics of the plane and it's a lot more complicated

That looked exactly what happened from the footage i saw, that the plane totally *stalled* and lost all aero lift plummeting without any control being possible. 400 plus tonnes of metal with no lift, its a massive impact shock.

RIP, a terrible accident.

Maz

when you have V2, and start rotating (this is when the accident/explosion happened) you can sustain flight with one engine, specially those types of engines, if it was a propeller they would crash inmediately... i think the main cause of the accident is maybe an explosion or a human error, or maybe im mistaken

Anyone know were there is footage of the plane actually coming into impact just for a matter of interest.

you're sick

i doubt there is footage of the actual impact.

but good luck searching for it.

Quote from mookie427 :

this talk of the fuel in the wings reminds me of that crash test that was done in the 70's, with a new type of 'jelly' fuel that didn't explode when a plane crashed - they filled the tanks in the wings with the new fuel then for some reason filled the rest of the wing with normal aviation fuel, and landed the plane by remote control on a runway covered in spikes and stuff to pierce the tanks and see if it worked - 'pilot' misjudged the descent and ripped open the wings igniting the normal fuel and it was deemed to have failed.

If that fuel had come into use it could have saved hundreds of lives by now

I agree 100%, this just doesn't cut it. Safety of passengers is non existent once you're in the air if a crucial system fails. I should hope we all will be able to look back on what the "airplane" has done for us and sit in safety of the radical result which technology and experience will bring us too. The first that offer 100% safety will be the first to explore space. Why not have individual electable fuel cells? why not cover the entire cabin in hard-setting foam?...the attitude seems to be that of a ostrich with head in ground, if i can't see it, it's not there...

Quote from CSU1 :

I agree 100%, this just doesn't cut it. Safety of passengers is non existent once you're in the air if a crucial system fails. I should hope we all will be able to look back on what the "airplane" has done for us and sit in safety of the radical result which technology and experience will bring us too. The first that offer 100% safety will be the first to explore space. Why not have individual electable fuel cells? why not cover the entire cabin in hard-setting foam?...the attitude seems to be that of a ostrich with head in ground, if i can't see it, it's not there...

What feasible alternative is there to air travel as we know it? It isn't a bad way of getting a lot of people around the world cheap and fast. I wouldn't say it is exactly dangerous either, your a 150 times more likely to dye in the bath than in a plane crash, you don't consider bathrooms to be a ridiculous unacceptable risk do you?

besides planes are so fun...

Quote from ajp71 :

What feasible alternative is there to air travel as we know it? It isn't a bad way of getting a lot of people around the world cheap and fast. I wouldn't say it is exactly dangerous either, your a 150 times more likely to dye in the bath than in a plane crash, you don't consider bathrooms to be a ridiculous unacceptable risk do you?

listen, bathtubs and 300km per hour carnage does not compare, don't be silly to compare the two. We are talking about real lives and real people not some " target="_blank">www.funny2.com/odds

As i said above technology and experience will bring safer ways to travel, but for now i despise the lackadaisic attitude of health and safety regulations which has led to the standard airframe design.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fwqFEh6kl0g

The guy there tries to convince a woman that the smoke is a plane that just crashed... he says that he saw a ball of fire before...

A terrible shame.

RIP

Quote from mookie427 :

you're sick

Who are you calling "sick" Just for a matter of interest to have my opinion on it!

Quote from Biohazard :

i did not intend to appear disrespectful. i just wondered what makes this plane crash different compared to all the others that obviously do not deserve a thread and thus respect for the victims.

I think the answer is that plane crashes with massive loss of human life aren't as common as you seem to think.

See the list here.

In fact Madrid is the worst plane crash on European soil since 1988. That's worthy of a thread I'd say.

But I understand your curiosity and don't think any of the name calling was justified. Looking at the list though, the real question is how can the rest of the world be content with having such an appalling safety record compared to Europe? All you have to do really is follow maintenance rules and let the pilots do their jo by the book.

Was it the planes second attempt off takeoff ?
I heard that it had a problem before that initial takeoff so it was aborted ?

Quote from 11SuLLy11 :

Was it the planes second attempt off takeoff ?
I heard that it had a problem before that initial takeoff so it was aborted ?

nope, they had an engine problem when they were running the usual checklist, but they repaired it before takeoff...

Quote from chanoman315 :

nope, they had an engine problem when they were running the usual checklist, but they repaired it before takeoff...

Ok thank you.

R.I.P