Quote from mrodgers :

Well, there you go. Tristan has spoken and you know when he speaks, all must stop, listen, and take what he says as the absolute truth. I am throwing away every piece of audio equipment I have for the car now because Tristan, with his knowledge of everything he knows nothing about, has spoken.

Sure, for the 'chavs' as you kids call them today, it is all about making midbass as loud and annoying as possible. But, don't tell me that audio equipment in a car that you spend hours in is useless and a waste of money. The acoustics (or lack of) is the whole point of high fidelity car audio. Anyone can go out and spend big money on a system in the house and have it sound like any other system. In a car, it takes thought and design to come up with a system and installation. It takes precise speaker placement to achieve anything other than noise in a car.

In my car, way back when I was involved with the car audio stuff, you could close your eyes and visualize the soundstage. You could visualize exactly where each member of a band might be at. You could hear the breaths of air intake between verses of the lead singer. The soundstage was indeed much larger than the car itself.

Now is the time when Tristan comes back to spout about added weight and all that other crap. For the added weight of a properly designed audio system, you could just wear a lighter pair of shoes, clean out the govebox and your wallet, and now you've just made up the majority of the added weight.

At the end of the market where Jack, I and I suppose most others on this forum buy their cars, wind noise, road noise and engine noise (plus rattles, friends, alternator belt squeals etc) will cancel out the good points of ANY expensive sound system.

Sure you can 'optimise' it for when the car is stationary, but because the acoustics of cars are pretty poor anyway that optimising isn't going to be as far reaching as it could in a solid structure - a building for example.

But you can't optimise it for all conditions. What might sound good (and I don't speak about volume - most songs and tunes are ruined (imo) by excessive volume, and cinemas pander to the idiots by turning up everything - WHY!?) with just you in the car on a silent summers day will be utterly ruined at 60mph with 3 mates in the car on a rainy winter's morning...

So why spend money on a sound system in that type of car? I'm sure it's a bit more worthwhile in a decent car - even some of the more expensive Lexus, BMW, Mercedes etc will have a solid enough structure and reasonably suitable acoustic properties to get an 'okay' sound, but it will still be cancelled out by beating rain or tyre roar.

Each to their own. If you want to waste money on a sound system you'll never be able to take advantage of then that's your call. I waste my money on a racing car that doesn't really go much faster than most road cars, and plenty here would rather not.

And the chav thing was a poke at sam38 with his £200 van with an £8000 speaker in it.

I remember my dad used to go crazy in his living room, measuring his speaker placement with tape to make sure that each spot he spent time at (sofas, windows, etc) had the optimal sound quality. He really was a bit obsessive with his massive stereo equipment.

I can't imagine doing the same thing in a car, but mainly for one reason - the surfaces have different reflective qualities. Glass, for instance, will reflect a lot of the high pitched sounds. Because the glass is at ear-level, against normal tradition you'd want to keep your tweeters down near the ground to avoid a lot of reverb from the windows. Seats will absorb most of the mid-range frequencies, and because car seats take up far more of the aural space than a sofa does in a living room, you know that most of your sound is going to be eaten anyway.

The odds are having more than a few well-placed speakers is going to be a waste of time. Loud stereo systems aren't about listening to music, they're about being heard listening to music.

You could aswell ask...

Why spend money on a good sound system at home, when you have noisy neighbours anyway... a street outside the window... etc.

There are people who like a good quality sound system... and some of them listen to music a lot while driving. And trust me, to those people, a good sound system matters (especially those with a good ear for music). Regardless of the noise a car might make eventually.

In other words, i agree with mrodgers.

Edit: A good system will still sound better than a bad one... even in a car (which is not a good place for listening to music anyway, as some of you are saying), right? Even if it's "in the wrong place", i'd still prefer the system that sounds better. :P

Quote from tristancliffe :

At the end of the market where Jack, I and I suppose most others on this forum buy their cars, wind noise, road noise and engine noise (plus rattles, friends, alternator belt squeals etc) will cancel out the good points of ANY expensive sound system.

Sure you can 'optimise' it for when the car is stationary, but because the acoustics of cars are pretty poor anyway that optimising isn't going to be as far reaching as it could in a solid structure - a building for example.

But you can't optimise it for all conditions. What might sound good (and I don't speak about volume - most songs and tunes are ruined (imo) by excessive volume, and cinemas pander to the idiots by turning up everything - WHY!?) with just you in the car on a silent summers day will be utterly ruined at 60mph with 3 mates in the car on a rainy winter's morning...

So why spend money on a sound system in that type of car? I'm sure it's a bit more worthwhile in a decent car - even some of the more expensive Lexus, BMW, Mercedes etc will have a solid enough structure and reasonably suitable acoustic properties to get an 'okay' sound, but it will still be cancelled out by beating rain or tyre roar.

Each to their own. If you want to waste money on a sound system you'll never be able to take advantage of then that's your call. I waste my money on a racing car that doesn't really go much faster than most road cars, and plenty here would rather not.

And the chav thing was a poke at sam38 with his £200 van with an £8000 speaker in it.

I agree there. The standard speakers in my Mum's Kia picanto are more likely to have better sound quality than some riced up van. Yes they are good and yes they are in a kia.

It really depends on the car.

At the moment i drive a VW Polo with a quite decent standard sound system. I'd never think of changing anything about it.

However, in my old car (944 turbo), the standard system was so bad, you couldn't listen to music when driving faster than 50 km/h, since the slightest volume increase on the radio would result in the speakers going nuts (read: sound terrible). In this case, two new speakers and an active subwoofer, was the best investment ever. It wasn't a high quality sound system afterwards, but one that you at least could use.

Ohh, and to anybody who says a sound system in a car can't sound good anyway... probably the best thing i've heard so far, was the Bose system in the RX-7 of my brother (stock sound system). And trust me, the quality was quite impressive.

Each to their own I suppose, but given the amount of time you typically spend in a car, it makes sense to enjoy it. I'd rather be sat there enjoying music than seeing what slip angle works best on every roundabout.

If you believe there's no noticeable difference between a factory stereo made to a budget of £1.50 paired with a tape deck and speakers not worth the paper they're made of, and even spending a very modest sum on it (£200 or so), I find it hard to believe you've ever been in a car with a stereo not set up by a chav, or in your case where you've got too much road noise to notice (MX5 IIRC?).

Some standard kit is quite nice - the new Focus has a surprisingly nice system as standard, complete with aux in's and stuff. And some of the old Peugeot units didn't sound bad either. But I can't see Proton giving it much of an R&D budget all them years ago.

Quote from tristancliffe :

You won't notice the difference in a car (well, you might in a Maybach, but not in any car less than £60k), and <£8 is a steal really. You can save the money for something more useful than wasting hundreds (or if your a chav, thousands) on audio equipment that won't sound any better.

A concession I would make is aged speakers - they sound nasty, and flutter at higher volumes or lower pitches, and replacing those with new ones would make a big difference.

I'm not saying zero improvements are to be had, just that it's not worth spending much money one them. And I've learnt from my own mistakes by installed £300 Alpine head units into 205s and 306s when I was younger (both got nicked, and I wasn't allowed to claim for reasons I won't go into).

Quote from tristancliffe :

A concession I would make is aged speakers - they sound nasty, and flutter at higher volumes or lower pitches, and replacing those with new ones would make a big difference.

I'm not saying zero improvements are to be had, just that it's not worth spending much money one them. And I've learnt from my own mistakes by installed £300 Alpine head units into 205s and 306s when I was younger (both got nicked, and I wasn't allowed to claim for reasons I won't go into).

Let me guess. Didn't announce them to your insurance?

I agree there's no point throwing big money at it, throwing £10,000 at a system isn't going to make it sound immensely better than £200 when your doing 60mph.

When I got my old 106 I thought it sounded a little crap, found out both the front speakers had been blown to shreds. Was a bit surprised seeing as I got it from a rather.. mature lady. Just put some new £10 ones in and left it, good enough for radio 2 in the morning.

Quote from tristancliffe :

A concession I would make is aged speakers - they sound nasty, and flutter at higher volumes or lower pitches, and replacing those with new ones would make a big difference.

I'm not saying zero improvements are to be had, just that it's not worth spending much money one them. And I've learnt from my own mistakes by installed £300 Alpine head units into 205s and 306s when I was younger (both got nicked, and I wasn't allowed to claim for reasons I won't go into).

Luke.S - Wrong.

Rtsbasic - yeah, if the flexible support around the cone is knackered then fixing them will make Mr Wogan and Mr Vine clearer. I do wish I could have a radio on at my desk with Radio 2 bleating out

Quote from tristancliffe :

Luke.S - Wrong.

Rtsbasic - yeah, if the flexible support around the cone is knackered then fixing them will make Mr Wogan and Mr Vine clearer. I do wish I could have a radio on at my desk with Radio 2 bleating out

You really sold them and the insurance found out. P

Nope.

They weren't yours?

Does it matter? He said he can't discuss it so guessing and spamming your post count up won't make him tell you.

It is obvious he didn't want to lose his NCB anyway.

But seriously, stop trying to guess because even if you're right he is hardly going to say you are if he cannot/will not go into it on the Intarwebnets.

Quote from tristancliffe :

You won't notice the difference in a car (well, you might in a Maybach, but not in any car less than £60k), and <£8 is a steal really. You can save the money for something more useful than wasting hundreds (or if your a chav, thousands) on audio equipment that won't sound any better.

Please explain how putting thousands of pounds worth of quality sound equipment into a car makes you a chav, actually how does modifying your cars by spending thousands on them make you a chav, does this mean people from the likes of WestCoast Customs are all chavs? They install audio, styling etc... I am not talking about them on Pimp My Ride, I am talking about the work they shown and did on their own show, Custom My Ride.
Also does the likes of the Max Power, Redline and Fast Car team and people cars who get featured in there chavs?

A lot of sites and the actual term of chav means that you wear fake clothes, poorly educated etc...

one definition off of Wiki:
Chav (pronounced /ʧæv/), or Charv/Charva (pronounced /ʧɑːv/), is a mainly derogatory slang term in the United Kingdom for a person whose lifestyle, clothing (especially if fake / counterfeit), speech and/or mannerisms are perceived to be common, proletarian and vulgar. The term 'chav' is often used as a stereotype to refer to poorly educated, aggressive working-class youths, but youth and aggression are not the defining attributes of a 'chav'.
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So how does modifying a car make you a chav, define it for me because I am confused how this slips into being a 'Chav'

Quote from sam93 :

does this mean people from the likes of

• WestCoast Customs
  
• Max Power
  
• Redline
  
• Fast Car team
  
• peoples' cars
  

who get featured in there are chavs?

Yes. All of them are chavs. Barryboys. Ricers. Fools. Gavs.

I had to look up Westcoast Customs. Thanks, I haven't laughed so much for ages.

Max Power, Redline and Fast Car are all magazines for idiots. They don't know much about cars, and neither to their readers.

Edit: Modifying cars doesn't MAKE you a chav. Being a chav in the first places MAKES you want to modify your car. See the subtle difference?

Quote from tristancliffe :

Yes. All of them are chavs. Barryboys. Ricers. Fools. Gavs.

I had to look up Westcoast Customs. Thanks, I haven't laughed so much for ages.

Max Power, Redline and Fast Car are all magazines for idiots. They don't know much about cars, and neither to their readers.

Edit: Modifying cars doesn't MAKE you a chav. Being a chav in the first places MAKES you want to modify your car. See the subtle difference?

How do you know people who are in them and their readers no nothing about cars, you dont. People who have their cars in their are mechanics, work in bodyshops etc...

You still haven't said why this makes you a chav, so how does it?

Edit: Not actually true, you could be someone very well off and posh and modify a car, they aren't chavs.

Quote from sam93 :

How do you know people who are in them and their readers no nothing about cars, you dont. People who have their cars in their are mechanics, work in bodyshops etc...

You still haven't said why this makes you a chav, so how does it?

Edit: Not actually true, you could be someone very well off and posh and they modify a car.

My mum's kia picanto pwns your rice bucket cars.


Edit: Not you then.

*cough*

This is how you can tell chavs like to modify cars, they have no idea what looks good or even helps the car in any way.

Quote from P5YcHoM4N :

*cough*

This is how you can tell chavs like to modify cars, they have no idea what looks good or even helps the car in any way.

I have seen that Calibra on there before, I also laughed a lot about it. If you read some articles in Max Power, Fast Car etc... They will spend up to a year sourcing wheels that will suit the car, I will make sure my car looks nice, some people may not like the bodykit on my car when I am older but the wheels will be chosen with care and all the work will be made sure it is finished to a high standard.
These people of BarryBoys give the actual modifyers a bad image by making ridiculously horrible cars. As I have said before you get nice modified cars and nice modified cars, people in Max Power etc... spend upto 5 years building their cars because of sourcing wheels etc...

Look into the decent modifying scene, you will see that it is totally different to the cars on Barry Boys, when I build my car it will properly take me 4 years to build my car to make sure it is well done at not rushed.

Tristian if you head unit got stolen, have you ever heard of securing one in there properly?

Quote from sam93 :

How do you know people who are in them and their readers no nothing about cars, you dont. People who have their cars in their are mechanics, work in bodyshops etc...

Mechanics generally don't know anything about cars either. They just unbolt broken things and fit new things. Working in a bodyshop doesn't give you taste, only the ability to make a nicer job of a terrible colour choice.

Quote from sam93 :

You still haven't said why this makes you a chav, so how does it?

Read my post again. I did.

Quote from sam93 :

Edit: Not actually true, you could be someone very well off and posh and modify a car, they aren't chavs.

Yes, they would be. Chav status doesn't have anything to do with money. A chav who wins the lottery remains a chav. Someone with money can also be a chav.

Quote from sam93 :

I have seen that Calibra on there before, I also laughed a lot about it.

You do it too?

Quote from sam93 :

If you read some articles in Max Power, Fast Car etc... They will spend up to a year sourcing wheels that will suit the car, I will make sure my car looks nice, some people may not like the bodykit on my car when I am older but the wheels will be chosen with care and all the work will be made sure it is finished to a high standard.

But it will still look awful, like a 3 year old 'designed' it, and none of it will compliment the original car in any way.

Quote from sam93 :

These people of BarryBoys give the actual modifyers a bad image by making ridiculously horrible cars. As I have said before you get nice modified cars and nice modified cars, people in Max Power etc... spend upto 5 years building their cars because of sourcing wheels etc...

I could spend 5 years taking a dump, but that doesn't make my output any more attractive.

Quote from sam93 :

Look into the decent modifying scene, you will see that it is totally different to the cars on Barry Boys, when I build my car it will properly take me 4 years to build my car to make sure it is well done at not rushed.

But it'll still look like a 5 minute job. They all do. Barryboys IS the decent modifying scene, as well as the crap modifying scene. It's not the particular cars they are moking, but the whole modifying ethos. But that'll be over your head.

Quote from sam93 :

Tristian if you head unit got stolen, have you ever heard of securing one in there properly?

Yes. Have you ever thought about riding ROUND signs rather than through them? Have you ever learnt how to type a single coherent sentence? If you want to mock me successfully you'll have to get up MUCH earlier. Or take lessons from Kev. Or Shotglass. Or mrodgers. Or Jakg. All successful mockerers of me, and I don't (generally) fight back.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Mechanics generally don't know anything about cars either. They just unbolt broken things and fit new things. Working in a bodyshop doesn't give you taste, only the ability to make a nicer job of a terrible colour choice.
Read my post again. I did.

Yes, they would be. Chav status doesn't have anything to do with money. A chav who wins the lottery remains a chav. Someone with money can also be a chav.
You do it too?
But it will still look awful, like a 3 year old 'designed' it, and none of it will compliment the original car in any way.
I could spend 5 years taking a dump, but that doesn't make my output any more attractive.
But it'll still look like a 5 minute job. They all do. Barryboys IS the decent modifying scene, as well as the crap modifying scene. It's not the particular cars they are moking, but the whole modifying ethos. But that'll be over your head.
Yes. Have you ever thought about riding ROUND signs rather than through them? Have you ever learnt how to type a single coherent sentence? If you want to mock me successfully you'll have to get up MUCH earlier. Or take lessons from Kev. Or Shotglass. Or mrodgers. Or Jakg. All successful mockerers of me, and I don't (generally) fight back.

A 'Chav' is a person who wears fake clothes, poorly educated, speaks poorly etc... Doesn't state anything about modifying cars. Also, you obviously haven't gone all the way through Barry Boys because there are some cars on there they actually like, this is a very few.
I wonder what my dad would say about your posts towards me, he wouldn't be happy at all. I wonder if you could say this in person, bet you couldn't. I will keep my thoughts to myself because if I said everything I could, I would get myself band from the forum.

I do believe though that you are proberly so stuck up prick who thinks they are better then anyone else.
Also how do you know if there arent Engineers etc... who modify cars you dont, you still get define what makes them a chav, because I am no where near a chav, I may wear Rockport, Timberland etc... but that is just because I can afford it, this still doesn't make me a chav, they also say a chav is someone poorly educated, I am not poorly educated I am going to be getting A's, B's and C's as they are what I am predicted, so I dont think I am a chav at all.

Sam93 - think about it from Tristan's POV:

He went to University, so he's obviously not thick.

He has a pretty big knowledge on car-related things.

He spends all day working with cars.

He is naturally a bit arrogant (but that's just the way he is!).

He see's people who modify cars literally by bolting shit on ("y0 i haz t3h spoiler lulz my car is t3h fa$$$$$t!1") and realises how stupid they are.


I'd imagine that this probably doesn't help him appear any less arrogant, but unfortunately he's not usually wrong so it's justified...

OT - Predicted grades mean nothing, a friend of mine just got his GCSE results - Predicted A's / B's, worked his balls of and got D's & C's, didn't apply to College as he was going to go to 6th Form, and now is probably going to be ****ed over for the next year as he'll never get into College with just over a week 'till term starts...

Sadly Sam, 'Chav' is not a title you can chose or deny - it is given and non-returnable.