i believe a while ago (20-30+ years) drifting used to be the fastest way through most turns. now that cars have incredible suspension gripping is way faster... drifting has nothing to do with racing and is only maybe faster through a tight hairpin now. people who say drifting is fast are stupid people who still play on demo. those guys all forget what drifting is all about. drifting is about very precise control and angles and style. speed isn't that big of a deal as long as you don't lose it all and maintain a steady pace. i'm sure i'll get flamed for saying this but i think i can speak for quite a few other people when i say that perfect drifting takes more skill than perfect racing. perfect drifting has yet to be seen. it's a very very complex way to drive that most people overlook. if you don't appreciate drifting then whatever you aren't the first person. but don't ever come on here and say it's stupid or whatever else you have to say just because you have no idea how to do it. if you even knew half of the difficulty it takes to drift you would at least appreciate it for what it is. i'm not saying you'll love it and want to do it but you'll at least appreciate it. drifting involves lines just like racing does but instead of just a line you have to have the right angle too. this can make things much more tricky. if you wanna know what drifting really is i'd be happy to send you some good videos of real life drifting on msn as long as you keep the queerness to a minimum.

A good number of the contributions on here SEEM to be from people who have a lot of miles under their belts (in LFS terms), know all the jargon and know all about cars.
I was hoping that this thread was for BEGINNERS and Helpful Veterans.
Is there any chance of another thread for Beginning Beginners please???
I asked for a definition of what is meant by Drifting - how to download a "SETUP", how to make sense of downloading "skins", how to set up a head to head with a friend, how to join a race at a "host".
Any helpful veterans out there please??

Quote from peejayh :

I asked for a definition of what is meant by Drifting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drifting_(motorsport)

Drifting has come to mean deliberately throwing your car sideways thru the corners, basically what rally drivers do but moved onto tarmac, the sport of drifting has nothing to do with racing.

I dont know why Im posting in this thread since some ppl will never be... well ppl, only racists but anyway. Im not a drift or a grip fan just to set things straight, I like to drive cars fast, grip is my aim but if IRL I drive a high powered rwd I will drift it or at least powerslide it in a couple of turns just for the fun of it, and the same goes for LFS. Now... Im sorry to tell you that drifting IS racing. There ARE races held around the world IRL that ppl drift in, arent there? So there you go. On another note, dragster and NASCAR aren't considered real racing too by many ppl but beside the undeniable fact that they too (just like drifting) require a considerable amount of skill, there is also the equally undeniable fact that there is a dragstrip and an oval in LFS. So what's your problem with drifting in particular? If you don't like it or can't do it then don't. Period. It's like those ppl coming over from... I don't know Race Driver (just an example, dont have someone in particular in mind) or whatever boards just to say that LFS sucks and this game or that games kicks its ass. Pathetic. We should then go to a Pro Evolution board and start saying soccer sucks and its not a real sport etc. This discussion is like comparing apples to carpets. Get a life.

ps. I dont remember who said it, but you can drift in a fwd, yes you can be sideways around a skidpad as much as you like provided the car is setup correctly.

I think the main "problem" is that unlike in grip racing where the objective is to get to the finish line as fast as possible in front of everyone else, drifting style points panel or whatever just isn't the same thing. It would be if grippers' laps would be evaluated on how clean their lines are, how much excessive wheelspin is used etc., incidentally only the time at the finish line matters.

Course I could just be talking utter rubbish here Personally I can't drift and only go sideways when I make a mistake but have no objection to drifters as long as they don't slow me down in a race

Quote from Kosmo :

Now... Im sorry to tell you that drifting IS racing.

Well, no, the "sport" of drifting where smoke and angle comes into play has nothing to do with racing. Powersliding is sometimes part of racing, occasional slip that "qualifies" as drifting is part of racing, getting points for the amount of smoke generated by your tires is not.

I think I've made it clear as day. Its a !RACE! that ppl drift in. (race is when ppl are competing for first place? right?). So its racing. Maybe its not touring car racing or F1 racing or whatever racing but it is racing. Obviously you dont know that there are two types of drift races. There are also races where results are based on who finishes first. Anyway I dont really want to debate on that, its considered racing around the world from the ppl watching it, from the drivers and also from the ppl organising it. I dont think you or anyone else here can change that no matter what you think or say.

It logically just does not work, in racing you're trying to go as fast as physically possible, deliberately loosing grip doesn't fit, except in rally where you have very low grip to begin with.

I have nothing against drifting, i think i've even "defended" against drift-bashing in this very thread.

drifting and racing are about car control.

with racing the goal is to get around the track as quickly as possible which means damn near no sliding.


with drifting the goal is to get as sideways as possible through corners wilfe following a consistand and fast line though angle takes priority over speed.

I am tired of bad racers calling themselves drifters. if you arent sliding from entrance to exit it doesnt count as a drift.

@filur in drifting you dont loose grip "deliberately" in the sense that you try to get the car sideways. Drift cars are setup in such a way that the car gets sideways very easily if you go fast, so you cant really do grip driving in them even if you wanted to. So you can say that you try to go as fast as you can even in drifting. Its just that the only way to go fast in these cars is sideways, you have to go slow to keep it straight.

Ok, ill admit that specifically at bikes, I don't like the motard bikes that are sideways all the time, I prefer to see a supersport bike getting a bit sideways because of too much power or braking or whatever, while racing. But you can see that the only way to ride a motard fast is sideways. Drifting with a car is very similar (except that motard races arent won by points, but as I said there are drift races where finishing position counts). I prefer to see a F1 car getting a bit sideways because of the power compared to drifting. I really dont care or like to watch a drift race (without bashing ppl who do though, thats the point), but can you say that when youre just driving around the track, no race, no hotlap just driving you dont have fun when the car gets sideways in a corner, accidentally or not? I dont believe there is one single person here that at least once has not tried to get a car sideways intentionally. Everyobody likes at least a little sideways action. Drifting is just a lot of sideways action.

TristanCliffe : your statement apply only to modern track racing.

drifting is widely used in rallying or offroad racing and is done one purpose, because it is sometimes better to loose a bit of time sliding in a corner while keeping full throttle in order to keep the engine in it's ideal powerband (especially with turbo cars) for the corner exit. It's also sometimes faster to slide the backend on purpose to do an hairpin because the setup of the car is balanced for faster corners and would induce oversteer.

I don't do drifting (ok I sometimes do it for the fun after having crossed the finish line with a regular setup) but I have nothing against it. I find perfectly sane and preferable to see both Drift servers and racing servers : it avoids misunderstandings and keeps people with the same goal togethers.

Quote from Kosmo :

I think I've made it clear as day. Its a !RACE! that ppl drift in. (race is when ppl are competing for first place? right?). So its racing. Maybe its not touring car racing or F1 racing or whatever racing but it is racing. Obviously you dont know that there are two types of drift races. There are also races where results are based on who finishes first. Anyway I dont really want to debate on that, its considered racing around the world from the ppl watching it, from the drivers and also from the ppl organising it. I dont think you or anyone else here can change that no matter what you think or say.

Drifting is NOT a race. It IS a competition. In your explaination up there, that would qualify football (european), football (american), rugby, baseball, hockey, golf.... as racing. You compete for first place in those? Racing is crossing the finish line first against one or more opponents. Drifting is a competition where you are judged and compete for points.

wow... kosmo leaves me speachless:faint:

Quote from Tomi :

TristanCliffe : your statement apply only to modern track racing.

Well, that's because this thread is in reference to track based drifting... You can pick holes in any argument by expanding it to different scenarioes...

Edit: And why, with all the other posts between mine and yours did you feel mine was the one to pick up on? :/

Quote from mrodgers :

Drifting is NOT a race. It IS a competition. In your explaination up there, that would qualify football (european), football (american), rugby, baseball, hockey, golf.... as racing. You compete for first place in those? Racing is crossing the finish line first against one or more opponents. Drifting is a competition where you are judged and compete for points.

In my explanation up there I also say that there are drift "events" if you so like to call them, where the aim actually IS to finish first. You just do so sideways

@Gabkicks ??

drifting competitions are not about crossing the finnishline 1st. they're about showing your car control is better than the other driver. sorta like figure skating. but if the guy leading screws up a bit and the guy chasing can pass then its a plus if you get by without touching.


i've noticed alot of lfs drifters arent so good at chasing and staying close to the leader while still being sideways.

Maybe the D1 races or whatever are not but there are, 100% sure, at least national events where finishing position counts.

Yeah there definitely are some out there, because I've seen a vid or two of such races. In my personal opinion it's still not the same thing because the person who drifts less will go faster, so it feels weird watching drifting where ppl are trying to drift less. See.

kosmos you have no idea what your talking about have dont even know it. drifting has nothing to do with finishing first. the only thing a finishing line does in drifting is end the run so someone else can go or the tandem will switch leaders. it has nothing to do with finishing first ever in any competition its only about style, angle, line, speed, clipping points, and of course the judges like to see smoke but they dont judge based on that because some cars just dont make that much smoke like the 86s. and your stupid thing about drift cars setting up so they can only go fast sideways is just retarded man. who the hell told you these things. i have videos of drift cars gripping for the first few laps and sometimes even when its wet! they can still grip. go do a whole bunch of research before you try to sound so sure of yourself man.

sileighty... i think maybe the events near him are different from the more popular ones of america japan and uk.

i feel the same way as you but we shouldnt flame people even if they are wrong.

Noone has told me anything I speak from experience, Im sorry if it sounds retarded to you. Granted Ive never been in a D1 car, but Ive been in cars and driven a few that have been set for drift. And guess what. When you go fast they get sideways. Ok, Ive heard the story about suspensions that go both grip and drift but Ive never seen one with my own eyes. Have YOU driven any of the cars you say both grip and drift? If yes ok, if not dont be so aggresive next time. Because you dont know how close to the limit were the cars in your videos when they were gripping.

As for the races, it seems to me you didnt even understand what I said. I know of drift races that position counts, Im not talking about D1 or Formula D or whatever, I said it before too. Im talking about national races. Ive seen it happen. Have YOU seen EVERY drift event held around the world and are so sure there are no such races? If yes, again, ok, if not...

It is amazing how long this arguement can go on for. There are people who drift who need a comprimising set up. For exaple the non proffesional drifters who also use her drift car day to day. But i no from seeing it and from what the driver said - the hks s15 was set up for drift so much so even gentle bends the rear of the car would slide. I no this is not for all drift cars though.
As for who finished first, in the top of the sport (d1 gp / forumala d / d1 gb) it isnt based on who crosses the line first, it is based upon speed angle line etc. From my experience of watchin drift comps usually then the top go for the twin drift to see who is better etc. This really takes out who the fastest is. I have seen some events though where the cars run and angle and line are judged but who crosses the line first also counts to who wins. In these events the drivers usually pull low angle lines to maximum speed while still gaining points for being side ways.
There are many different drift competitions and they all have there own little rules and judging procedures. To say this is how it is black and white wont happen cause as i said there are subtle differences between each.
Drifting may seem stuid to some and the best thing to others. I cant drift IRL or grip race either. In lfs though i am learning to drift as i see it as a skill just like grip racing. It is a different skill and ive got different set ups for both grip and drift. But it still comes down to its a skill.
IMHO this whole arguement is stupid. I think there will always be differences in view between grip racers and drifters. So what they are views and opinions and i no everyone shuld express them and this is wat this forum is for but to have 4 pages of posts to me is stupid. The quesiton was wtf is drifing, the question was answered, Y is all this crap needed?
In reply to what i said earlier bout id rather loose places in races the drift a corner. I no that as long as you are competitive and not slowing people down, if i make a mistake drifting a corner isnt a bad thing (i dont mean simple oversteer before sumone says it) but i got ban from some random server for drifting one corner. I was in the lead and i braked hard and the back stepped out so i accelerated and drifted the corner, this mean i wanst as quick as i normally was, 2nd caught me up quick and then was sayin i was drifting in a race server and then vote ban loads untill i eventually was banned. I not this wouldnt happen alot of the time, but to save that trouble i would rather loose a place or two.

I'm not surprised at all by how long this thread has become. You can't mention the "D" word around here without someone from either side of the fence taking offense at something and going ballistic (or just going on and on), especially if some newb names his thread "drifting - wtf?" - that's just asking for trouble. Next time, try google - you'll get loads of results without 4 pages of "yada yada"

I think everyone's had their two cents here (and in some cases a few bucks' worth) so maybe it's time we let this thread die a natural death (I actually thought it had, but was disappointed to see someone resurrected it)...

Perhaps then there should be a single informative (read: unbiased) thread about drifting exploring different viewpoints and yaddayaddayadda so that people not in the know can be referred there instead of having this argument every time?


No, no I don't think it would have the appropriate impact..

Part of the problem is people's subjective idea of the term drifting, to me it means the sport which many compare to figure skating, to others it's even the smallest powerslide. I think if there'd be a sticky, it would see about the same amount of replies as this thread.