Don't get me wrong, I think team orders SHOULD be allowed, but the last I heard they were banned in F1. Last night in China Kimi obviously let Massa pass and even admitted to it in interviews after the race.

Did they change the rules again so that team orders are allowed?

Speedfreak227

Well, that wasn't a direct team order.

The rules are not changed, but Kimi, "knows what the team expects of him".

All it means is that over the radio they cant be blatant about it.

tbh I think it's all a bit silly, there's nowt wrong with team work in a team sport.

Rule book basically says "allowed as long as you do it in a stylish way". Doing it infront of the chequered flag would not be stylish.

Quote from deggis :

Rule book basically says "allowed as long as you do it in a stylish way".

Or "allowed as long as your car is red. And not silver."

ahem, germany this year

Mclaren did the same thing.

I was about to add that...

It's the difference between Domenicali shouting at Raikkonen to let Massa pass him, and Raikkonen deciding for himself to let Massa pass in order to keep him in the championship. Therefor it's not a team-order, but a drivers own decision.

this row only occured after certain drivers were allowed past by drivers from the same team when both could still win the world championship.

traditionally there always have been number 1 and 2 drivers , indeed on occasions the number 2 has been told to give up his car during the race when the number 1's was unable to continue.

it's always been accepted that when 1 driver is no longer able to challenge for the title, he can help his team mate and it's generally expected and accepted by drivers and teams which is why mclaren are not saying anything about it even though it's technically illegal.

i just hope and i expect that ferrari will take the same approach if mclaren's drivers perform the same manuver in the last race to gain hamilton the points he needs for the title

Quote from Becky Rose :

tbh I think it's all a bit silly, there's nowt wrong with team work in a team sport.

I agree - it's one of the most idiotic rules there is. What's the point in having two-car teams if teamwork isn't allowed on the track?

I've never seen anything like this in motorcycle racing (e.g. MotoGP). Teamwork just never really comes into play on the track. In the garage, some data may be exchanged between the two sides of a garage, but once they get out on the track, it's every man for himself.

It is really only through the moronic efforts of the British press that people even think of this as an issue. Notice in the post-race interviews that the interviewer was trying desperately to create a scandal from it?

F1 is a team sport. Team members work towards a common goal. Simple really. The sport could well do without such nonsense scandals created by the media. In times when the F1 press is calling out to have more access to drivers and teams so that they can improve their press coverage, they still can't drag themselves away from the bitching-and-crying style reporting that makes the sport lack sophistication and credibility.

Quote from Gunn :

It is really only through the moronic efforts of the British press that people even think of this as an issue. Notice in the post-race interviews that the interviewer was trying desperately to create a scandal from it?

In the past, when this sort of thing has happened, it HAS caused a scandal. Let's not forget, we're crying out for consistency here, so let's not pretend that we should expect anything less from ANY press, let alone the British.

Quote from tinvek :

this row only occured after certain drivers were allowed past by drivers from the same team when both could still win the world championship.

traditionally there always have been number 1 and 2 drivers , indeed on occasions the number 2 has been told to give up his car during the race when the number 1's was unable to continue.

it's always been accepted that when 1 driver is no longer able to challenge for the title, he can help his team mate and it's generally expected and accepted by drivers and teams which is why mclaren are not saying anything about it even though it's technically illegal.

i just hope and i expect that ferrari will take the same approach if mclaren's drivers perform the same manuver in the last race to gain hamilton the points he needs for the title

heikki isn't good enough though so they dont expect it.

Team orders are banned but if a driver decides for himself to give a place up then that is allowed. It's as simple as that. Although how the stewards ever expect to know if it was a driver or a team decision I don't know.

Quote from Gentlefoot :

Team orders are banned but if a driver decides for himself to give a place up then that is allowed. It's as simple as that. Although how the stewards ever expect to know if it was a driver or a team decision I don't know.

FIA is listening to the team radio. It doesn't prevent code words or phrases, but that's the prescribed method of ensuring team orders don't get passed to the track.

Quote from SamH :

FIA is listening to the team radio. It doesn't prevent code words or phrases, but that's the prescribed method of ensuring team orders don't get passed to the track.

And monitoring radio transmissions does not tell the FIA anything about the conversations that have gone on in the team before the race either.

Oh, I agree totally! I was just explaining what the official method of determining whether a team issues an order is

I wouldn't really have an issue with Ferrari telling Kimi to let Massa pass, tbh. There are two concurrent championships in F1 - drivers and teams - and since both of them involve many $millions in prize money, it doesn't seem to me any worse for the team in the pitlane to direct who in the team leads any more than it is for the team to instruct a driver when he should pit, to maximise his points.

Of course, the on-track spectacle would be damaged if it were blatant - and it has been profoundly damaged in the past - but I'm at a place, now, where the whole F1 spectacle is a sham and a charade to me. Team orders would just be another bit of flakey paint on an already unsalvagable rusting F1/FIA hulk, for me.

All the FIA really cares about is that a team's two cars don't swap positions on the final straight of the final lap to gift the win to the other driver, like Schumacher and Barrichello did twice in 2002.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

All the FIA really cares about is that a team's two cars don't swap positions on the final straight of the final lap to gift the win to the other driver, like Schumacher and Barrichello did twice in 2002.

what really upset people there was that ferari were so dominant there was no need and the only real battle we could have seen that year was the 2 ferrari drivers against each other. mclaren were ultra dominant in 1988 winning all but one race (where senna was hit by a backmarker) and leading all but 27 laps all season, yet we still had a gripping championship because senna and prost were allowed to race each other

Quote from dawguk :

In the past, when this sort of thing has happened, it HAS caused a scandal.

like the tons of pages wasted on heikki letting hamilton pass in hockenheim?

It's happened around a million times in F1. Only twice has it upset a couple of dozen people (people that don't understand much).

Quote from tristancliffe :

It's happened around a million times in F1. Only twice has it upset a couple of dozen people (people that don't understand much).

There was also that business with Coulthard and Hackynun in Australia. That upset quite a few people IIRC.

I've only been paying attention to F1 for the past few years. Can anyone tell me, has anyone ever been penalized for breaking the "no team orders" rule since it was adopted?

Quote from Danke :

I've only been paying attention to F1 for the past few years. Can anyone tell me, has anyone ever been penalized for breaking the "no team orders" rule since it was adopted?

Not since it was adopted.