My great-grandfather was a lighthorseman in the Middle East WWI, my grandfather & great-uncle served in the RAAF in WWII & my uncle drove tanks in Vietnam. Between them, they knew - and they taught me - the difference between necessary military action and a pointless, thankless waste of lives. They also taught me the difference between patriotism (love for country) and blind nationalism (unquestioning support for a government). It's because of their experiences, and those of their friends, that I'm glad I left the RAAF while still a cadet and now work for the Red Cross.
Don't confuse opposition to a war with disloyalty to the poor brave bastards who have to fight it.
Only 4 years of this clown and then we can get back to our regularly scheduled programing.
I love how the rest of the world supports Obama without knowing any of the facts. Just because he is running democrat doesn't make him any better than Bush.
Didn't like Bush but with Obama we are all doomed.
You mean squandering a budget surplus and turning it into a deficit of unprecedented scale? You mean a massive campaign of lies and deception to sell a false war? You mean systematic curtailment of civil liberties under the guise of "security"? You mean imprisoning American citizens without due process? You mean tarnishing America's reputation in the eyes of the whole planet for political gain?
No thanks, this new show seems quite a bit better and it's barely started.
That's true, but most of the policies which he plans to enact as President are better than Bush's.
The reason why he won, is because everybody was sick of Bush. What people didn't seem to grasp that McCain wasn't Bush and opposed a lot of what Bush stood for. Most of the voters that voted for Obama are clueless, I suspect you just jumped on the "change" bandwagon yourself. Obama is a danger to America and people will see when these radical countries start acting up cause they aren't scared anymore and we don't have a defense system to handle anything like that anymore.
I can go on and on man. Did you bother to read what Pelosi said today?
The reason he won is because he was a ****ing iconic figure already and he hadn't even been elected yet. I'm sure this man is going to change the world. Just look at him - watch him orate, or even just look at stills of him getting off planes and waving to crowds - this man is a remarkably powerful presence. I think the comparisons to Kennedy are well-founded. I don't think we've seen a leader this strong since. Key word: Leader. He's a born leader, and they are rare, and you need one.
McCain wasn't allowed to run his own race. I think McCain would've been more popular if he didn't have the weight of the Republican party on his back. We saw glimpses of who McCain is during the campaign, but that was when he was off-message, and - ironically - those were the most popular remarks he made. Sadly they were mostly in support of Obama. I think McCain himself is probably quite content that Obama won. You can't win against an icon. Indeed, you shouldn't.
Hopefully Obama will use America's military might where it can do the most humanitarian good, instead of where it can do the most good for its leaders' oil company shares. Maybe you'll see your military deployed in the DPR Congo in the new year. I hope so - and I hope it's a coalition force including EU nations.
If the USA uses its military in such a way, it will have less enemies to worry about. The Islamic rebellion won't be controlled through military force anyway - that's a wasted resource. If the USA military is seen as a calming influence on global politics, rather than the opportunistic force it has been in recent years, then you'll probably find that the extremists have trouble drumming up support for their cause.
Hopefully, that's what Obama's presidency will represent.
McCain's voting record was around 95% pro-Bush in the last couple of years. Some maverick.
How's the kool-aid taste?
Noone with half a brain thinks Obama is the left-wing messiah and will ride in on his magic broom and clean everything up nice & tidy. He's more a centrist than a lefty (there really isn't much of a true left in the US) and his changes won't be as huge and sweeping and castle-crumbling as the paranoid far-right seem to think. But he does seem to give a shit about people and he's actually able to speak coherently and finish a sentence without smirking like some moonshine swillin' shit-kicker. Sure, millions are taking a chance on the guy. Millions took a chance on Bush - twice - and look where it got them. Maybe everyone just thought about their vote a bit longer this time.
But if you think McCain/Palin would've been any different to Team Bush's unmitigated 8-year cluster**** you're as deluded as you seem to think everyone else is. If McCain's judgement allowed him to pick a bimbo like Palin to be second in command, then that simply is not judgement that can be trusted in any kind of crisis. But, on the other hand, if he allowed other people in his party to nominate her for VP it doesn't show a great deal of integrity or guts on his part. There are a lot of other things that lost this election for McCain, but that's a major part of it.
Sick of not just him, but with neocon politics in general. Bush is a treasonous war criminal piece of shit and should be in prison.
I guess that's why he voted along party lines 94% of the time during last term. Yeah he's a real maverick alright.
You don't know anything about me or what I think about politics, mouthbreather. You're pulling this bullshit directly out of your ass.
More baseless fearmongering that just doesn't reflect reality. The Republican party tries to pull this shit every election - VOTE FOR US OR THE TURRISTS WILL GET YA! Have you bothered to read what world leaders have said about this election? The consensus has been that they see Obama as positive change and respect America more because of it, not less. More, not less. Foreign leaders weren't scared by Bush, they laughed at his stupidity and short-sightedness.
You make it sound as though the fact that our military is crippled and overstretched is Obama's fault, which is so bizarre I don't even know how to begin tearing it apart. Bush decided to start these criminal wars. They are his legacy.
Obama is dangerous because his skin is a different colour, his name sounds like Osama, and he might put people that are not christians in important positions, why don't you just say that instead of pretending you have a logical reason for your fear and dislike of fairly elected leader, syphillis?
In before Victor locks this one just like the Prop 8 thread...
Why bother having an off-topic area at all if off-topic discussions you don't like get shat on? How about locking threads before they get to page 6 or 7 or to 300+ replies? Or having mods do it? Or appointing more mods and updating the rules so threads like that get locked straight away? Noone makes you read that shit but if it's taking up space, say so and don't be so bloody petulant.
Meh Whatever devs, it's your sandbox. The intertubes aint a democracy after all.
We have to remember that Vic's from a different culture too. I don't know whether he's a "stereotypical" Dutch dude but it seems to make him a pretty solid moderator.
Either way we get away with a lot of bullshit on his forum and he only ever steps in when things get offensive. Recently that's been more regular but perhaps that's because we've been more regularly mean to people.
But I actually agree with him. Even in terms of my own posts. I'm a terrible example here and I'll happily admit it.
Then I suggest a "no-politics, no religion" rule. Works great for other forums where it's been implemented. In my experience you can't trust people not to bring that stuff up in an OT section unless you explicitly ask them not to. Obviously both topics give rise to strong (and strongly voiced) opinions which inevitably clash like Spartans and Persians.
I have to agree, that thread was getting out of hand, funnily enough I can see this one going the same way . There's debate and then there's personal insults and mad ranting. What I find funny is that none of you folks ever seem to bleedin race anymore......get on track
Group hug and I'm so happy that Jessica Lopez has been voted the new Prime Minister of Canada. Good on you yanks
In my defence, yer 'onour, I try to only ever be offensive towards Mormons. And for ****'s sake they ask for it.
If it's going to be an official forum rule that I can't say that Mormons are a bunch of stupid ****ing morons then I'll stop saying it. But it won't make me wrong.
LOL you still believe that America is all respect and feared, and is still the greatest nation in the world?
guess you lot are more dellusional then your god.
America nowadays is just part of the play, a big part but still only a part, and your part is getting smaller, no worries it will actually be a benefit. About time for you to realize being big and bashy is so 20th century.
Just to sex you up even further, I started discussing the same issue in PM's with our forum bwana. He's just ****ed off that he's wanting to run a forum about racing sims and we're constantly interrupting him with bullshit about homosexuality and other such off-topic guff. And I can't blame him really.
Maybe we'll see a change in the rules or the moderation around here, but maybe it won't be such a bad thing.
Incidentally: I'm increasingly concerned that you might have to buy me a programmable envelope filter / octave doubler / fuzz / wave generator box from Sydney. My current synth boxes really aren't up to snuff, and the new Australian box looks like the mutt's nuts. Either I can send you the cash or you can consider it a wedding present, what do you reckon?
I sympathise with said kahuna, but like I said, OT sections get Off Topic rather rapidly. If you don't actually, explicitly say to people "don't mention the war", they'll inevitably bloody well mention the war and not everyone agrees on the bloody war do they?
There was a just a perfect storm of politics recently, what with Barry O making the podium and bringing murderous neo-con cocktwuntery & yeehaw anti-learnin' to a close and the very divisive Prop 8 getting passed in Ahnuld-land. "President Idol" contests and referenda on gay marriage don't happen every day and both things naturally inspire strong opinions. I just don't think Vic's lock, or the rant, were entirely necessary. Though he was spot on with the "usual suspects" accusation.
Let us continue talk of the dowry via PMs, my betrothed. Our parents will need to discuss cows and microwave ovens and soft furnishings as well.
I've got an Electro-Harmonix Bass Micro Synth and a Korg G5 I need to shift first, and maybe some others. And my dad says all your cows are barren and your soft furnishings lumpy and cat abused. But of course he's always been opposed to our union.
First off, I'm not a republican, I'm a independant and base my vote to whom I see best fit for office. In this case it was McCain, even though both candidates weren't that great. I believe that most of the world sees Obama as the best fit president cause of his "change" campaign and because of all of the bad decisions Bush has made in the last 8 years. I think best fit president candidate was Mitt Romney, although he didn't make it that far.
These countries despise any form of free speech, free religion, homosexuality, and any kind of media. They are irrational and harbor many terrorists. Why do you think Saddam was hung and by whom?
I agree with you. Very well put. He is an icon. But you don't know how he was raised and who his influences were. Do you know that he followed Rev. Wright for 20 years, attended weekly sermans and donated to his church. Watch this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqbA5c21zrQ Watch Obama trying to denounce Wright.
Obama is far from being a centrist. He is the most liberal president elect. that we have ever seen. No way that he will ever change.
Many countries in the world like China, Russia, Saudi, Iran, Syria, NK, Somalia, Pakistan, Uganda, Cuba, Venezuela and more are rolling w laughter as the American public has been duped into voting for a weak inexperienced Communist President.
This is an international embarassment.
I didn't like McCain, I think he'll do more good as a senator than president. Palin was just a bad joke. But Obama is so far out there it's scary. Become educated about who is going to be your president instead of just watching tv and listening to his empty promises on how he will fix everything
Yeah, cause missles pointed straight at America is a great thing. Pretty much clueless. Russia is led by an ex KGB sociopath and communist, Putin. Look at what they do to in Kosovo and how they interact with NATO. You do not know his next move, remember the cold war? And now we have to deal with Dmitry Medvedev, another commie. He is also trying to pass a 6 year term so he can be in power for 12 years instead of 8. Great news for the world
Obama has no clue on how to be a diplomat. I assume you know history. Has any president in the past been successful on solving problems with diplomacy, especially with someone like Putin. It ain't that easy, and Obama is going to get a reality check that you can't solve everything with diplomacy. Or the world would have been a peaceful place all along.
Dude, you're from a communist state.
All in all, he is my next President and I hope that he can do what he promises. But his past is really shady and you cannot believe anything a politician says. The popular vote was almost 50/50. The next 4 years are gonna be tough for Obama. But I just hope he gets his head set on straight cause he has no clue what he is getting himself into. Most of the promises he made during his campaign will come up empty, just like with every other president in the past.
I was at the rally for Obama in Chicago last night. And his speech was very powerful, I just hope he lives up to what he promises.
I'm not a republican, I'm a independant and base my vote to whom I see best fit for office. In this case
Long live the US and may the world prosper. Love you all
Saddam was hung because the Americans went in. They were hung by the Iraqi Government, which is being propped up by the Americans.
He was denouncing, not disowning. Two totally different things. To denounce is to criticise a set of remarks. To disown is to totally seperate yourself from someone. I'm no fan of religion but I'm not going to criticise Obama for having a pastor with them beliefs. Obama's beliefs are his own.
And the Marxism is where? That just looks like a hate-inciting video to me.
Liberalism is a hell of a change from the Bush Doctrine.
Have you actually seen any coverage from these countries or are you just making that up?
No, this is an international celebration.
You're scared of someone who is a great presence on the world stage before he's elected? These "empty" promises actually have some realistic chance of happening, now the Democrats have majorities in both the Senate and the House.
I'm not going to doubt that. However, I think that if McCain had have got in he'd have been likely to start a war that would annoy Russia even more. Bad news.
Again, I'm not going to argue with the fact that it won't be easy. It's not, but the chances that Obama can pull it off are greater than the chances that McCain could have.
Just because he is does not make him Communist himself. Stop making judgements you cannot make.
+1 on the hope. I hope he's up to it. Which he is, IMO.
Whatever devs, it's your sandbox. The intertubes aint a democracy after all.
