Sending PM
Sending PM
I did'nt say that i said:
so your statment was a lie
The cowards are the British and American forces who use air strikes to attack people armed with rifles.
Fixed.
I cant agree with this Kev, sorry, our armed forces are brave people. I just dont think there should have been a war.
I'm asking you to explain to me what is so bad about areas with high ethnic population, in the absense of which I have to make assumptions about your argument - i've set the bar at what I think you are saying, please correct it. That's not lying, that's requesting further information.
My point is none of them were immigrants and the British government caused the terror attacks in this country by taking part in an illegal war. If we refused to support Bush then we wouldn't have been in the situation we are now. Labour are the real criminals.
I have to take some personal blame for this. The FIRST time I voted for labour, I thought I was doing the right thing - the Conservatives had become corrupt and their manifesto consisted of "Dont vote for Labour they dont have any experience".
I didnt vote for their second term when they started the war, but I am really really sorry to the rest of the world, for a while there I got sucked in.
EDIT: I note with some irony that Labour recently used the "no experience" line about the Conservaties *sigh*
Ok take a trip to these enriched areas and see for yourself.
And the bnp say,.......
FOREIGN AFFAIRS - Britain’s interests first!
Britain’s foreign relations should be determined by the protection of our own national interest and not by our like or dislike of other nations’ internal politics. We would have no quarrel with any nation that does not threaten British interests. We will maintain an independent foreign policy of our own, and not a spineless subservience to the USA, the ‘international community’, or any other country.
ooo0000000 the racists!
Well to be fair they made the right noises, if you watch Tony Blairs early speeches you can see how much of a hypocrit he is. He went against everything he stood for, which should be a warning. If you look into the history of Labour you wouldn't vote for them, the same way you wouldn't vote for the BNP. Both have bad pasts, and Labour got into power by lieing about what they wanted to do with the country, the same way the BNP are lieing now.
For the record the BNP just stole that line for the other parties that have been spouting it for over a decade.
For the record the BNP just stole that line for the other parties that have been spouting it for over a decade.
the irony continues...
It's natural that people are concerned about maintaining their own cultures. The English are so impressed with their own cultural heritage that historically they've felt the need to export it to the four corners of the world, often with very little consideration about the kinds of repurcussions on other cultures. As history shows, the English were never interested in 'integrating' into their new homelands, I mean... that's kind of an understatement. I don't feel I need to go into that since you guys here are obviously very aware of England's 'glorious past'. I'll just go on...
People like Andy on the forum here- you'll have to look seriously into the possibility that other people might also be proud of their own cultural backgrounds when they decide to come and live in your country. You might have the opportunity to move anywhere you like. I went to Turkey for three years- in that time I got a grasp on beginner Turkish but was never confident enough to feel that I was a part of that culture. Also, I brought my own culture with me. That's just natural. I'll be going back some time too, perhaps for good, but I can't simply erase my former cultural upbringing. I am who I am.
Not everyone is going to drop everything immediately and become a beefeater on a postcard chanting God Save the Queen or something like that. Apart from needing to realise that change is slow and difficult for many immigrants, people are proud of who they are, and they should be afforded the right to express their cultural heritage in a way that is atleast mutually respectful of both cultures. The days of unified cultures harboured safe within the confines of their own geopolitical borders is long over. Some of you guys need to get a grip on that and get a grip fast. It sounds so whiney coming from a nation that was built on colonisation. The world is not your oyster, and honestly you're sounding like spoiled brats/kids.
At worst, you're coming across as extremely racist- and how can you differentiate between a racist and someone who speaks like a racist? I'm sorry but you can't.
People like Andy on the forum here- you'll have to look seriously into the possibility that other people might also be proud of their own cultural backgrounds when they decide to come and live in your country. You might have the opportunity to move anywhere you like. I went to Turkey for three years- in that time I got a grasp on beginner Turkish but was never confident enough to feel that I was a part of that culture. Also, I brought my own culture with me. That's just natural. I'll be going back some time too, perhaps for good, but I can't simply erase my former cultural upbringing. I am who I am.
Not everyone is going to drop everything immediately and become a beefeater on a postcard chanting God Save the Queen or something like that. Apart from needing to realise that change is slow and difficult for many immigrants, people are proud of who they are, and they should be afforded the right to express their cultural heritage in a way that is atleast mutually respectful of both cultures. The days of unified cultures harboured safe within the confines of their own geopolitical borders is long over. Some of you guys need to get a grip on that and get a grip fast. It sounds so whiney coming from a nation that was built on colonisation. The world is not your oyster, and honestly you're sounding like spoiled brats/kids.
At worst, you're coming across as extremely racist- and how can you differentiate between a racist and someone who speaks like a racist? I'm sorry but you can't.If the BNP and other anti-immigration folks are so convinced of the ill effects of immigration, then they'd also want to recall all UK citizens living abroad, and publicly apologise to the former colonies for harm done. Somehow I can't see them doing that.
I've been to quite a few places in London with a high head-count of non-white/non-British people, hell I had to get to hospital once to have some stitches out (quite why I couldnt get that done locally I dont know) and had to pick out the road signs that where in English as the rest appeared Farsii or Hindii or something i've no idea which. Other than the stitches already in, I didnt gain any more. I've walked the streets of Wembley, Tower Hamlets, Walthamstow, and many other London Boroughs.
I can't say I like London, i'm not keen on crowds and I like the peace and serenity of the country side. That said, just what was I supposed to have seen whilst I was there?
I didn't spot any AK-47's or Republican Guard tanks if that's what you're worried about.
Putting words in to his mouth rather aren't you?
I don't agree with a lot of what andy has said but I have to say that being worried about the fact that there are sections of the muslim community in this country that would like to see sharia law invoked and that the UK should be turned in to an undemocratic Islamic Theocracy is perfectly reasonable to my mind.
You can argue that it will never happen but then I'm sure there are plenty of people that said the same about Hitler prior to 1933.
On a personal level I feel that this country has to some extent become a victim of it's own liberal ideology, (and I'm a liberal !). Multiculturalism aside there comes a point when a country has to decide what kind of society it wants to be and take steps to preserve that. There is no argument that certain elements of the muslim community would like to overthrow the current state and change our society beyond recognition, and it seems that our political parties seem unwilling to openly discuss the issue, let alone challenge these beliefs unless they are taken to the point where violent acts are committed or supported.
There is little to no rational, intellectual open debate in the public eye on the issues of racial, religious and cultural tensions in this country and that is to a large extent due to the automatic response to people willing to critisise the behaviour/beliefs of other cultures and religions being labelled as racist.
The only issue with being liberal is that other people aren't. These other people will only seek to take advantage of our liberal acceptance of all that is different to change our society to their benefit. Potentially ultimately to something as unliberal as can be imagined.
Islam is offended by our liberal ways, and as liberals we tread carefully so as not to offend it's followers. Well to put it bluntly, I am offended by Islam. I'm offended with the way it subjugates women. I'm offended by it's inhumane system of Law. I'm offended by it's indoctrination of children in to the God myth. Could I as a politian ever get up and express those legitimate issues in public without fear of retribution? I don't believe so. Well so much for our liberal ideals.
It would have been nice to have had a public debate on this before we started dropping lots of bombs on the heads of anyone wearing a towel above the waist.
It's a tricky subject to discuss, firstly not all Muslims are directly opposed to our liberal ways, so it's very difficult to discuss Islam and not be racist, when what we are really referring too is a proportion of the Muslim population as represented by the Muslim Council of Great Britain.
I've known a fair few Muslims in my life, some where very nice, some where ok, and some where xenophobic zealouts who where "lower" to me than King Henry VIII's swan's neck (he used them as toilet roll to save you googling).
There are plenty of examples of Islam living comfortably side by side with British culture, but as one moderate Muslim said to me some 15 or so years ago, "War is coming. I love Britain, I love the way you accept us, I love the way you allow everyone to be who they are. But in mosques they're not preaching tolerance, and in the next 10 years war is coming.".
He was right, war did come, but how do we deal with it? How do we seperate moderates from fanatics?
The solution is not to tackle Islam as a whole, but to deal with the concept of fanatacism - and this means directly attacking the BNP also.
All fanatics must be put to pasture.
They are the enemy of all that is truly British.
Umm.. no it isn't, just FTR. I think you may have been clipped by a "they hate us for our freedoms" Bush lie/myth, tbh. They're offended by our support of a middle-east aggressor, actually. And well they might be.
I don't think he is. The term is "paraphrasing".
Well that's not the whole truth. There is a mujahideen group in Britain who are fully intent on turning it into Islamic state. They want Islam to be not just a dominant religion, but the only religion in the world.
They are nutters, of course, and no different to the extremist groups that have always been around in some capacity. The big question is whether they are gaining any ground or not.
There is also the major problem of how they're teaching the Koran in the middle-east, emphasising or manipulating translations to emphasise its more aggressive aspects. That part is genuinely scary.
The Mujahedin in the UK are not a serious threat, nor would they be if we suceeded in radicalising all racial minorities in the UK. The "Friends Of Israel" lobby groups have been far more successful.
So you think it's ok for a selected BNP member running for a council postion to say what he did......because you happen to have heard worse on a COD server
Unless you live and work in London and use public transport....
forgotten 7/7/2005 already Sam?
As i've said before, we're at war and we have to accept that part of that is some bombs on friendly soil. That does not justify terrorist actions at all, indeed they are abhorrent.
It's just that I remember living in London during a PIRA campaign. Actual terrorism (ie: real threats not the ones dreamt up by politicians to secure public support like tanks at Heathrow and our American embassy having a bomb go off opposite with nobody hurt) is a side effect of us invading other countries and having such military superiority that conventional warfare is easily and rapidly defeated.
Britain is a super power, allied to an even bigger super power, and we've gone and launched illegal invasions. Terrorism is the price of that, we did it to ourselves. Or rather, the Right Honourable Second Coming Himself Tony Blair did it to us.
How we deal with that from here is not by embracing extremist views and activities ourselves, like supporing the BNP, but by stamping out extermism, starting with the BNP and the Muslim Council of Great Britain.
We need to run these groups into the ground, then seek out the rogue independent groups and destroy them.
...But obviously we are not allowed to defend ourselves or take steps to prevent it happening because that would be racist?
Terrorism's emotional impact far outweighs its threat, on a ratio that is bordering on ridiculous. You have such a minute chance of being involved in a terrorist incient that by rights it should barely be worthy of consideration.
Almost the same people died last year in "falls involving a chair" as died in the London bombings. It's not keeping me awake.
BNP membership data leaked - whoops!
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FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG