Hi all! I wanted to ask if you could help me with something. As an amateur graphics designer, it was simply only a matter of time before I'd be interested in getting involved in web design as they seem quite connected . So, I decided to have a look at acquiring Flash from Adobe but the price really, really, REALLY scared me off. I know that Flash is the daddy for web designing and perhaps, I don't necessarily need to ignore it entirely which is why I'm posting this message. I'm aware that the basic way and cost effective way is just to go with standard HTML code but to be honest, it won't do as I'd like to design a site for certain, attractive purposes.

So, basically, what I'm asking is this, is it possible to build Flash websites through a more affordable way and if not, is there a Flash alternative that I perhaps could get into, again, also more affordable or preferably, completely free.

Thanks.

Kind Regards,

Leprekaun

Quote from Leprekaun :

[ snip ]

I know that Flash is the daddy for web designing

[ snip ]

Flash is a real PITA! Never, EVER, EVER create a "flash web design". It's inaccessible, resource hungry (in comparison) and really serves a purpose for very little in web design IMO.

Simplicity IMO, is the key. Simplicity doesn't have to mean boring however.

Learn how to code proper web sites (I used Dreamweaver years ago in WYSI(N)WYG mode and then read the code it produced to learn what tags did what) and you'll find that you'll be able to do so much more. I'm not saying don't learn flash if that's what you want to do.. but any flash-only site I come across personally 1: displays nothing due to the FlashBlock / NoScript Firefox extension, 2: gets forgotten about quickly as there's plenty of other sites available that usually have similar content that will display without the need for 3rd-party plugins.

Just my 2p worth anyway.. take it as you see fit



Regards,

Ian


PS: Sorry.. no idea about flash alternatives.. have always avoided anything related like the plague and stuck to traditional stuff.

I hate flash websites. I would say to stay away from creating flash websites. What about getting a copy of photoshop and Dreamweaver. Design parts of the site in Photoshop and put the site together in Dreamweaver. Just an idea.

Or if you are not interested in coding, which can be extremely dull and boring for some people, you could look for a coder that needs someone to do the graphics. I have a friend who makes quite a lot of money that way, he does all the graphics and his friend does the coding. I actually looked at moving into website design when I left school, before realising I found banging my head against a freshly painted wall until it dried more interesting than coding.

Quote from Ian.H :

Flash is a real PITA! Never, EVER, EVER create a "flash web design". It's inaccessible, resource hungry (in comparison) and really serves a purpose for very little in web design IMO.

Simplicity IMO, is the key. Simplicity doesn't have to mean boring however.

Learn how to code proper web sites (I used Dreamweaver years ago in WYSI(N)WYG mode and then read the code it produced to learn what tags did what) and you'll find that you'll be able to do so much more. I'm not saying don't learn flash if that's what you want to do.. but any flash-only site I come across personally 1: displays nothing due to the FlashBlock / NoScript Firefox extension, 2: gets forgotten about quickly as there's plenty of other sites available that usually have similar content that will display without the need for 3rd-party plugins.

Just my 2p worth anyway.. take it as you see fit



Regards,

Ian


PS: Sorry.. no idea about flash alternatives.. have always avoided anything related like the plague and stuck to traditional stuff.

Totally agree with Ian here on his first point about Flash being a P.I.T.A. It really is - web design in flash is like trying to draw on word.

You can make cool, professional websites with simple HTML as long as you are confident in slicing up templates and creating good graphics in Photoshop.

Quote from sam93 :

I hate flash websites. I would say to stay away from creating flash websites. What about getting a copy of photoshop and Dreamweaver. Design parts of the site in Photoshop and put the site together in Dreamweaver. Just an idea.

He mentioned without paying loads of money for Flash - Photoshop and Dreamweaver would cost the same as if not more than flash. GIMP is a free photo editing program that you could use (Photoshop is easier, even an old copy like Elements 2. I used that for web design for about a year and was fine) and Frontpage can't bee too much, unless you want to code it in notepad.

EDIT: Just realised I didn't answer your question at all. No wonder I'm crap at essays ey! Well, I don't know of any flash alternatives. There's always the route that we must not speak of - I wouldn't suggest this route but its always an option I guess.

Haha yeah flash can really mess things up if you want to make a nice web-compliant website. What do you need to make a good website? Some knowledge and notepad would do, remember simple design and colours often looks better than complex stuff. I use dreamweaver and photoshop, maybe you can get cheap/free alternatives of these to start out with?

Flash is really hard to make a professional looking site out of. Just imagine a horrible flash game but bigger! :P

For free alternatives for general design / dev tools, I'd go with GIMP for graphics and Komodo for an editor.



Regards,

Ian

Quote from RossUK :

Flash is really hard to make a professional looking site out of. Just imagine a horrible flash game but bigger! :P

I don't care how hard or easy it is to make a "professional looking" site. I could care less if it would take the designer 30 seconds of hitting a button to create the best website ever, when I encounter a flash website, 9 times out of 10, I rectify it by hitting the little X in the box at the top right hand corner.

I hate websites done in flash. It's one of the reasons I hardly ever look at the auto manufacturer's websites. They are always done in Flash. A big X in the corner for me.

Flash is good for photo galleries only.

Quote from Shadowww :

Flash is good for photo galleries only.

Not really. Flash is good for animations, simple as that as it allows better resolution images than animated GIFs.



Regards,

Ian

Is Rockstar's (of GTA fame) website still an unnavigable, incomprehensible, flash-driven monstrosity? It's blocked at work so I can't look.
I remember going there to find out about GTA:SA a few years ago and not being able to find anything about it, despite it being their biggest game and released only a day or two before, because the site was so 'arty', 'clever' and hopelessly counter-intuitive.

A good website can only be done by a good designer & coder. Flash, dw..vs are only tools for making a website. Tools don't make your design be better. It's only you.

Good website = good design + good coding
Software don't matter.

I only use Flash for the odd part here and there when doing websites. For the most part, people don't want to have to sit through a long animation just to open the next page, even if it is really cool.

And you have to understand you will never make anything quite as stylish as Tokyo Plastic

Quote from Dajmin :

And you have to understand you will never make anything quite as stylish as Tokyo Plastic

Geez that's god-awful

Quote from Dajmin :

I only use Flash for the odd part here and there when doing websites. For the most part, people don't want to have to sit through a long animation just to open the next page, even if it is really cool.

And you have to understand you will never make anything quite as asdfasdfasdf as Tokyo Plastic

Tokyo Medical Waste would suit them better.

You people have no artistic soul. That's a piece of design genius. It's a nightmare to navigate, but the design is stunning. The transitions and switches to pseudo 3D is just amazing. It's a showcase, not a website

Quote from Dajmin :

You people have no artistic soul. That's a piece of design genius. It's a nightmare to navigate, but the design is stunning. The transitions and switches to pseudo 3D is just amazing. It's a showcase, not a website

And that's exactly why it's a total flop. It IS a website, and it IS a nightmare to use. The load-time on the navigation is offensive and the return on that load-time is offensively insignificant. It's a perfect example of how not to deliver a website and a perfect example of how media can be mis-used. It is an epic fail.

Obviously it's not, because they have a decent portfolio of advertising companies and campaigns that they have been involved with. Not a massive number, but all mainstream.

It's a display of what they can do, it's not designed to be friendly to use. And besides, it's Japanese. They like their crazy stuff at the best of times

Quote from Dajmin :

Obviously it's not, because they have a decent portfolio of advertising companies and campaigns that they have been involved with. Not a massive number, but all mainstream.

I seriously don't think they won any web development clients on the strength of their own website. I don't get the impression they actually do web design. Their TV bridges are excellent, but not their website.

It looked like a perfect example of design by committee to me, this is pretty much how most of the major Japanese companies operate so it's par for the course really. I likes some aspects of it.

Quote from SamH :

Geez that's god-awful

I agree, horribleee. Nice idea, and a change, but no.

But yeah stay away from Flash.

Meh. Flash should be eradicated other than for free online games.

I`d rather any site was available to all, not just those with sight.

I even avoid flash sites now when I can, and if I have to use them it`s just annoying. I don`t care how many flashy effects and lovely stuff you can do with it. It`s just a total pain in the ass, neglects pretty much every "rule" about easy navigation, and neglects anyone without the same vision abilities that you have.

HTML/XML/CSS ftw, until it isn`t allowed anymore. javascript also as long as you have a failsafe fallback that provides the same functionality as the scripted version in case someone doesn`t choose to allow it.

Quote from unseen :

HTML/XML/CSS ftw, until it isn`t allowed anymore. javascript also as long as you have a failsafe fallback that provides the same functionality as the scripted version in case someone doesn`t choose to allow it.

Mmm it's all about building for your audience.

For example if you're building a microsite for a brand, flash often works well where low functionality is needed.

If you're building a modern web application you'd be hard pushed to support non-Javascript users.

If you're building a geek news site, do you really have to support IE6?

All things you have to think about before choosing your tools. Statistics and experience are what is needed here. I'm currently working on a fairly large web application, and a video news site. We can't afford to design around the <1% of users that have Javascript turned off for such a large application project. However we know that 13% of our users of the news site are still using IE6, so support for that is needed. (He says as he struggles to make IE6 conform as usual).

Meh, making IE work properly is always a pain in the ass , but even if I made a site for ubergeeks, I`d still make it work uniformly for IE in case they accessed it from work (even some of the absolute geekiest get stuck in jobs where M$`s foulest is forced upon them)

Maybe since I know a particular computer user very well who has been completely blind for the last few years affects me, but I just have no interest in creating a site that will never be accessible to them, since it feels as ridiculous as creating a site that says on the opening page "no darkies allowed"

There`s a lot of visually impaired people out there, and strictly flash websites with no fallback just aren`t an option for them unless some miracle has happened to allow them to view flash content recently

Dont bother with flash on websites, its reallyy pointless.
Just deisgn your site in photoshop, and export it to a website editor. Frontpage works great. As long as you have got the skills you can make awesome websites using just photoshop and frontpage.